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Post by FairyGodmother on Mar 7, 2023 17:25:40 GMT
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Post by oxfordsimon on Mar 7, 2023 19:14:52 GMT
I have long thought that the BBC had too many orchestras/bands so I can see the need for a review of that.
But the BBC Singers are a unique choir and should be retained.
Lose Gary Lineker and use those savings to protect the Singers
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Post by theatrelover123 on Mar 7, 2023 23:36:58 GMT
I have long thought that the BBC had too many orchestras/bands so I can see the need for a review of that. But the BBC Singers are a unique choir and should be retained. Lose Gary Lineker and use those savings to protect the Singers How are the BBC Singers unique? |
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Post by oxfordsimon on Mar 7, 2023 23:41:51 GMT
They are, I believe, the only full time professional choir in the UK. They have huge skills with all periods of music including numerous new compositions each year.
20 brilliant singers cost so little in the grand scheme of BBC expenditure.
They will be sorely missed.
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Post by FairyGodmother on Mar 8, 2023 8:03:07 GMT
I don't think five orchestras is that unreasonable tbh — full symphony orchestras in Scotland, Wales, one in London, one in Manchester. Then the Concert Orchestra which is smaller and does more with Radio 2. They all commission new music and do outreach work as well as broadcasting. I'm just waiting for them to get rid of Friday/Sunday Night is Music Night.  I agree about the Singers. I presume the argument is that they have voluntary choirs and can pay freelancers when needed. It seems a shame though, and it can't be the same when it's competing with other jobs than when it's your full-time job. |
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Post by FairyGodmother on Mar 8, 2023 8:06:57 GMT
And what makes it even sadder is that the BBC first formed a professional choir in 1924 — they should have been looking forward to their centenary.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Mar 8, 2023 10:13:17 GMT
Since I made my earlier comment about Lineker, it seems like his time at the BBC might actually be coming to an end.
£1.35 million a year saved there would be enough to more than cover the costs of the BBC Singers
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Post by Jon on Mar 8, 2023 11:05:50 GMT
Since I made my earlier comment about Lineker, it seems like his time at the BBC might actually be coming to an end. £1.35 million a year saved there would be enough to more than cover the costs of the BBC Singers You do realise that they'd still need to replace Gary Lineker, that's not how BBC budgets work. |
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Post by oxfordsimon on Mar 8, 2023 11:16:56 GMT
They have more than enough sports talking heads under contract
My point is that the BBC have rather skewed priorities when they use our money to pay totally unwarranted sums to certain individuals
There is no way that anyone working for the BBC should be paid anything even close to £1350000 a year.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Mar 8, 2023 11:58:02 GMT
Since I made my earlier comment about Lineker, it seems like his time at the BBC might actually be coming to an end. £1.35 million a year saved there would be enough to more than cover the costs of the BBC Singers Football does have a very large resale value around the world so BBC is getting large income off the back of football rights. Why Manchester United have not played an untelevised cup game for about two decades |
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Post by mkb on Mar 8, 2023 11:59:57 GMT
I agree that the budget for Match of the Day and other football hosting is unnecessarily high, but the BBC can't terminate Lineker's contract right now without it looking like a political decision rather than a cost-saving one.
Then again, the current BBC seem to have no qualms about doing things that look partial.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Mar 8, 2023 12:37:41 GMT
Since I made my earlier comment about Lineker, it seems like his time at the BBC might actually be coming to an end. £1.35 million a year saved there would be enough to more than cover the costs of the BBC Singers Football does have a very large resale value around the world so BBC is getting large income off the back of football rights. Why Manchester United have not played an untelevised cup game for about two decades That income is down to the profile of the football teams not the presenter. BBC football audiences would not drop if Lineker ceased to present some of it. |
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Post by oxfordsimon on Mar 8, 2023 12:38:23 GMT
I agree that the budget for Match of the Day and other football hosting is unnecessarily high, but the BBC can't terminate Lineker's contract right now without it looking like a political decision rather than a cost-saving one. Then again, the current BBC seem to have no qualms about doing things that look partial. They can terminate it because he broke the impartiality rules of his continued employment. That isn't political, that is just the basics of employment law. |
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Post by n1david on Mar 8, 2023 12:43:55 GMT
They can terminate it because he broke the impartiality rules of his continued employment. That isn't political, that is just the basics of employment law. He isn't an employee. |
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Post by og on Mar 8, 2023 12:52:47 GMT
Assumption overload.
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Post by og on Mar 8, 2023 13:02:16 GMT
They are, I believe, the only full time professional choir in the UK. They have huge skills with all periods of music including numerous new compositions each year. 20 brilliant singers cost so little in the grand scheme of BBC expenditure. They will be sorely missed. 20x singers on full time salary, with enviable annual salary increases and hefty pensions. Add into that the department of staff required to manage those singers. I think you vastly underestimate 1, how the BBC work, and 2, how musical enterprises work. Needless to say, the overall annual cost for this department is hardly “little”. Many other issues with nonsensical posts here, but the headline is BBC needs to adapt to the changing markets in terms of pace, content and expenditure. Maintaining a flagship network programme with global reach like MOTD would always take precedence over one of many low profile musical outlets, but Sport haven’t gotten away lightly either. The cuts and decimation of departments on an industrial scale is happening across every division. |
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Mar 8, 2023 13:11:19 GMT
Football does have a very large resale value around the world so BBC is getting large income off the back of football rights. Why Manchester United have not played an untelevised cup game for about two decades That income is down to the profile of the football teams not the presenter. BBC football audiences would not drop if Lineker ceased to present some of it. Yeah but it is no harm having the best in the business presenting |
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Post by oxfordsimon on Mar 8, 2023 13:17:53 GMT
They can terminate it because he broke the impartiality rules of his continued employment. That isn't political, that is just the basics of employment law. He isn't an employee. he 8s bound by the rules set out by the BBC. A contract is a contract. |
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Post by oxfordsimon on Mar 8, 2023 13:19:03 GMT
That income is down to the profile of the football teams not the presenter. BBC football audiences would not drop if Lineker ceased to present some of it. Yeah but it is no harm having the best in the business presenting £1.35 million is a lot of harm to budgets. It is an outrageous sum of money. He isn't worth it. |
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Post by n1david on Mar 8, 2023 14:10:02 GMT
he 8s bound by the rules set out by the BBC. A contract is a contract. A contract which, even according to the BBC, does not require him to be impartial on Twitter. If he worked on news programmes, he would be required to be impartial, but he doesn't, so he isn't. Now, it's true that the BBC could terminate his contract along the lines of bringing the Corporation into disrepute, but that's something that's more difficult to prove, especially considering the volume of tweets today supporting him. After all, giving £400k to the Tories doesn't count as bringing the Corporation into disrepute, so what's a few tweets? Note: I'm not a particular defender of Lineker earning over £1m, but he's an easy punchbag for every BBC cut, when the real reason for the cuts has been a frozen licence fee during a period of high inflation. |
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Post by FairyGodmother on Mar 8, 2023 14:11:08 GMT
Effectively cutting an orchestra is a much bigger proportion of the classical music industry though. It's like closing down three premiership teams. (Written in haste, will do maths later!)
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Post by oxfordsimon on Mar 8, 2023 14:34:04 GMT
he 8s bound by the rules set out by the BBC. A contract is a contract. A contract which, even according to the BBC, does not require him to be impartial on Twitter. If he worked on news programmes, he would be required to be impartial, but he doesn't, so he isn't. Now, it's true that the BBC could terminate his contract along the lines of bringing the Corporation into disrepute, but that's something that's more difficult to prove, especially considering the volume of tweets today supporting him. After all, giving £400k to the Tories doesn't count as bringing the Corporation into disrepute, so what's a few tweets? Note: I'm not a particular defender of Lineker earning over £1m, but he's an easy punchbag for every BBC cut, when the real reason for the cuts has been a frozen licence fee during a period of high inflation. He is the highest paid person at the BBC - of course he is going to come under extra scrutiny. The fact that the BBC senior management are spineless when it comes to enforcing their own rules is a different issue. Lineker has got away with his online political activity for too long. That has to stop. He is fully entitled to his views. But he should keep them to himself if he wishes to continue pocketing obscene amounts of licence fee payers money. |
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Post by oxfordsimon on Mar 8, 2023 14:34:51 GMT
But back to the core issue. The BBC Singers are an incredible choir and should be protected.
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Post by FairyGodmother on Mar 8, 2023 15:04:28 GMT
I don't know how much difference it'll make, but there's a petition on change.org with nearly 24,000 signatures to try to stop the disbanding of the BBC Singers.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Mar 8, 2023 15:11:21 GMT
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Post by Jon on Mar 8, 2023 15:19:19 GMT
They are, I believe, the only full time professional choir in the UK. They have huge skills with all periods of music including numerous new compositions each year. 20 brilliant singers cost so little in the grand scheme of BBC expenditure. They will be sorely missed. 20x singers on full time salary, with enviable annual salary increases and hefty pensions. Add into that the department of staff required to manage those singers. I think you vastly underestimate 1, how the BBC work, and 2, how musical enterprises work. Needless to say, the overall annual cost for this department is hardly “little”. Many other issues with nonsensical posts here, but the headline is BBC needs to adapt to the changing markets in terms of pace, content and expenditure. Maintaining a flagship network programme with global reach like MOTD would always take precedence over one of many low profile musical outlets, but Sport haven’t gotten away lightly either. The cuts and decimation of departments on an industrial scale is happening across every division. £1.35m wouldn’t be enough to cover the BBC Singers, it’s like the mad suggestions I’ve seen elsewhere that they should cancel certain programmes to protect news budgets not realising that you still need replacement programmes and those cost money |
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Post by oxfordsimon on Mar 8, 2023 15:35:40 GMT
There is no reason any one individual should be paid over a million pounds a year for any role in the BBC. No reason at all.
Yes, it was flippant to suggest that sacking Lineker would solve the issues of classical music funding. And yes, there are cuts affecting most parts of the BBC.
But the huge cost of high profile talent is no longer something that can go unchallenged. If 'stars' won't work for a more reasonable salary, let them go off and ply their trade in the open market. I am fine with that.
Doing away with a major cultural institution is a step too far. The BBC Singers can be afforded by the BBC. Indeed should be afforded by the BBC.
Their music making, their collaborations, their educational work and much more should not be sacrificed.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Mar 8, 2023 15:42:12 GMT
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Mar 8, 2023 16:08:06 GMT
Yeah but it is no harm having the best in the business presenting £1.35 million is a lot of harm to budgets. It is an outrageous sum of money. He isn't worth it. Yeah you are right he is not worth it, but we are not Communists here. He is really good at his job and I've been down the list of BBC top earners and I'd get rid of two others personally and keep Lineker. |
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Post by oxfordsimon on Mar 8, 2023 16:20:09 GMT
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