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Brexit
Oct 21, 2019 7:35:49 GMT
Post by Latecomer on Oct 21, 2019 7:35:49 GMT
I agree that the Sky news coverage was excellent. Their political editor summed up the points clearly and succinctly and so I didn’t have to spend the report screaming at the TV when their reporters get actual facts WRONG. I have come to an agreement with husband that we can no longer watch the BBC news as it is neither fair nor accurately informative.....it enrages me so much when the news is just no10 press releases regurgitated. I think with the switch to (free to air) sky news at 10 my marriage might survive! They did do a “let’s go and judge opinion in” bit but even that was more thoughtful than the BBC (interviewed young couple in pub, MP for the area and couple who just want to leave but aren’t ranting people)
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Post by Latecomer on Oct 20, 2019 11:41:51 GMT
In some ways it would have helped if it were a legally binding referendum as it has been judged already to be illegal....so it would have been challenged in the court and fallen. We would have had to do it again.....
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Brexit
Oct 19, 2019 15:48:55 GMT
Post by Latecomer on Oct 19, 2019 15:48:55 GMT
Brexit is on the one hand all about national identity (or it’s been constructed by Vote Leave to be about that) and on the other it’s ALL about the details....rules or origin, frictionless trade, customs, VAT.....and those are hard to understand. I was so enraged when Johnson said on the BBC news that he would be organising a free trade deal with the EU and Laura K didn’t point out that this would mean border checks.....I think that’s one reason Brexit is hard....people tune out when you get to real practical details. I thought Stammer was good explaining some of that today. Industry just needs to relentlessly point out that they will be forced to cease business here unless customs union and as close as possible to single market. I agree with CP above that I reckon they could get a deal through (it is essentially what Labour argued for)
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Brexit
Oct 19, 2019 15:01:42 GMT
Post by Latecomer on Oct 19, 2019 15:01:42 GMT
Gauke thread on twitter is interesting....he would vote for Letwin amendment and then the deal tomorrow (which means deal is not passed tomorrow until Withdrawl act is all passed)), Boris has to ask for extension, then suggests amending the actual withdrawal agreement act to make sure no crash out at the end of 2020 if full trade agreement not signed. Only problem with that is if that amendment wins support (no reason why it wouldn’t - parliament doesn’t want no deal) then ERG will be cross......so withdrawal bill may be voted down....getting a deal is like trying to catch frogs! I’m calling it tomorrow.....Letwin amendment win, amended deal voted through. For the record I cant believe this huge act of self harm. What idiots we are..... So will he send the letter? I’m guessing yes, at the last minute, so the newspaper headlines are all about “Parliament delays Brexit” This is a fatuous argument as, according to Johnson, there was “plenty of time to get all the legislation done by 31st Oct”....so now let’s see him put that into action.....Perhaps there was only enough time when the threat was no deal alternative...hardly a good way to do business. I thought Kier Stammer was good today. |
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Post by Latecomer on Oct 19, 2019 7:43:58 GMT
Have to admit, that doesn't sound too promising... Also, people falling asleep at the theatre are forever a mystery to me: if I was really *that* bored, I'd rather just leave. This way you're simply a nuisance to others, who are trying to see the play. (Speaking from experience here: an elderly man fell asleep during Rosmersholm at the Duke of York. He snored. People were, understandably, embarrassed to do anything. It was simply ridiculous.) Sometimes people can’t help it....i once went to a talk with my mother-in-law (P.D.James, very good) and she fell asleep 7 times. I nudged her awake each time (as I knew she really wanted to hear the talk and was in danger of snoring) but she literally could not stay awake! My husband has the same gene...falls asleep anywhere he is, and missed the end of so many TV programmes! I personally am amused by the ones in the theatre who sleep the whole way through a play and then exclaim how good it was at the curtain call!  |
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Brexit
Oct 18, 2019 18:01:05 GMT
Post by Latecomer on Oct 18, 2019 18:01:05 GMT
Gauke thread on twitter is interesting....he would vote for Letwin amendment and then the deal tomorrow (which means deal is not passed tomorrow until Withdrawl act is all passed)), Boris has to ask for extension, then suggests amending the actual withdrawal agreement act to make sure no crash out at the end of 2020 if full trade agreement not signed. Only problem with that is if that amendment wins support (no reason why it wouldn’t - parliament doesn’t want no deal) then ERG will be cross......so withdrawal bill may be voted down....getting a deal is like trying to catch frogs!
I’m calling it tomorrow.....Letwin amendment win, amended deal voted through.
For the record I cant believe this huge act of self harm. What idiots we are.....
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Brexit
Oct 17, 2019 18:10:50 GMT
Post by Latecomer on Oct 17, 2019 18:10:50 GMT
I think we have got to the “Elementary”stage of Brexit....Watching the TV series there is absolutely no point trying to guess the outcome as there are always lots of red herrings along the way. I now feel this way about Saturday in Houses of Parliament. Usually I trust Sherlock to solve the case in Elementary, for Brexit I am putting my trust in Kier Stammer, Dominic Grieve, Yvette Cooper and Hilary Benn....will be very nervous.
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Post by Latecomer on Oct 14, 2019 7:04:58 GMT
Help! Husband and I are at the planning stage for a 2 week visit to New York next September (I like to be organised!) on a special holiday and I thought I would ask for help on here, as I know people visit for theatre there.....any recommendations for cheapish hotel to stay in? We are planning to do all the usual tourist things and take in a day at US Open tennis and possibly a show or two and then just soak up the New York way of life (husband wants to eat pancakes and drink coffee at a diner!) Currently finding the whole thing a bit overwhelming so would welcome any recommendations for accommodation and things to do!
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Post by Latecomer on Oct 9, 2019 15:51:28 GMT
I complained a while ago that the BBC was using unattributed quotes as headlines. This is misleading as it “reads” on first glance as a factual statement...it is only when you click on the headline that you see who has made the quote. I received the following reply today....pretty rubbish. I do, however, notice they have started using attributed quotes in headlines FAR more often (often PM: or No10:) ...so perhaps I wasn’t the only one to complain....now if only they stopped using gossip as most of the news.... Thank you for getting in touch about our article entitled Boris Johnson's referral to watchdog 'politically motivated' - No 10 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49862859). The article’s short headline, visible on our indexes, was: PM's referral to watchdog 'politically motivated' The words ‘politically motivated’ appear in quotes to indicate that this is a claim, rather than a fact, a standard practice in print journalism where space is limited. Where the article featured as one of the top stories on the news homepage it was also accompanied by a summary: It is alleged businesswoman Jennifer Arcuri received favourable treatment due to friendship with PM. On visiting the article, the longer headline and introduction immediately make clear that these are the words of a senior government source. The use of sources as an anonymous way to obtain or clarify information is also a well-known practice in journalism, used for many years. The BBC has specific guidelines on the use of sources: www.bbc.com/editorialguidelines/guidelines/fairness/guidelines#anonymityJournalists often get information from sources who do not wish to be identified and they will know their full identity and have assessed their credibility before the information they provide is used to inform our coverage. Thank you once again for getting in touch. |
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Brexit
Oct 4, 2019 7:31:36 GMT
Post by Latecomer on Oct 4, 2019 7:31:36 GMT
Doesn't the Benn bill kick in if he fails to get a deal accepted by Parliament and the EU? Bit of a huge flippin' oversight, if not! I think you are right. Apologies for the alarm.... I begin to suspect all sorts of weird and wonderful plans. Just need to remember, I think, that Johnson pretends he has some cunning plan to get round the “ask for an extension letter” as wants to bounce the opposition into giving him an election/replacing him before Oct 31st so he can claim “it wasn’t me, gov” . The EU also seem wise to his tactic and have not rejected his deal outright but are saying “we keep talking” even thought it is blatantly a C- (or F) piece of homework! |
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Brexit
Oct 3, 2019 21:45:59 GMT
Post by Latecomer on Oct 3, 2019 21:45:59 GMT
So, latest theory....I hope I’m wrong and I’m sure politicians will have thought of it.....Johnson puts his “deal” to parliament. They vote for it.(like the daft Kyle thing sometime back) This means he doesn’t have to ask for extension via letter (Benn bill) as parliament have voted for a deal. Obviously the EU will not agree to this mishmash of dangerous ideas.....so we crash out with no deal? Or end up with a no deal or revoke vote at the last moment? Can I hibernate and then just wake up when all the scheming has finished? I find it soooo depressing.  |
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Brexit
Oct 3, 2019 17:21:32 GMT
Post by Latecomer on Oct 3, 2019 17:21:32 GMT
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Post by Latecomer on Oct 2, 2019 15:53:19 GMT
The problem is the disaster capitalists want that! That way they can make a quick fortune from the chaos and blame the EU for it. But yes, the failure of the last 39 months is that the government hasn't even attempted to get loser's consent. What the ref result showed was that the country was fundamentally split, and it remains so. I could accept a well-organised Brexit that minimised the inherent damage and mitigated the risks. The couldn't-organise-a-piss-up-in-a-brewery level of incompetence that we've actually seen is just....beyond words. I wouldn't trust this lot to feed my imaginary cat, let alone undertake a massive re-structuring of our domestic economy and international socio-political relationships! I would have double liked this if I could!!!! |
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Post by Latecomer on Oct 1, 2019 19:01:58 GMT
My husband worked for 2 years at his company to identify and plan and lead a team implementing changes to their code for year 2000 (shop audit world-wide company). He knew what he had to do, as it was a simple case of changing the date format, and his whole team finished on time, meaning the data processing on huge mainframes continued. If he hadn’t done it THE DATA WOULD HAVE GONE WRONG. The government had a publicity campaign (we all remember the millennium bug?) and companies were clearly told what to do. Current situation - no-one (Including the government) knows what is happening 30 days from possible biggest trading change in 40 years. Good luck with that....
I get really angry when people say nothing happened at Y2K ....that’s because they got it right. It is a fact that if a programme had dates in old format it would have failed. A fact. Indisputable. Not some sort of weird myth!
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Post by Latecomer on Sept 29, 2019 17:28:49 GMT
I've already said it a million times, but once more won't hurt - the referendum did not condone No Deal, so stopping No Deal is not dishonouring the referendum result. Fine distinctions are critically important, and it's astonishing how many people don't bother to think about them. Still curious about what you think the ref did and didn't condone? It is possible to chart exactly (scientifically ie a FACT) when “no deal Brexit” became a “thing”. You can look at how many google searches are done on a phrase/word to see when it came into existence. There is a good article in the Independent newspaper..... It was first searched for in the weeks before May struck her withdrawal agreement in NOV 2017 It did not begin in any substantial numbers until JULY 2018 when Johnson and Davis walked out of Government. So it is a relatively recent thing....no-one in 2016 voted for it as it was not talked about. No-one suggested the idea of leaving the EU without a deal. To think there was a time when we had never heard of words such as Brexit and Prorogue..... |
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Post by Latecomer on Sept 29, 2019 10:36:15 GMT
Loved this. Enjoyed the mesmerising entertainments between the pieces...I could have watched the patterns that juggler made all day! I also liked the plays. Wasn’t the set great? Imaginative and minimalistic all in one. Great lighting. And beautiful acting....in the last piece you had to really believe in the characters or the whole piece would have seemed daft and they completely nailed it. I cannot imagine that this could have been done better by other actors. Atmospheric and intriguing. So glad I went to see it.
Was also amused talking to another audience member afterwards that they had not got a single one of the literary references but still loved it, so this works on many levels...when I started watching theatre 10 or so years ago I wouldn’t have either! Churchill at her most playful. Difficult to chose a favourite, they are all quite different and the sum of the whole is lovely!
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Post by Latecomer on Sept 27, 2019 21:34:44 GMT
I know people don’t like Corbyn but I honestly fail to understand all the “sympathise with Russia” stuff. In the Skripal case he asked to wait until there was evidence before taking action....I think that is a reasonable action to take (do we all remember that dodgy dossier about the non-existent weapons of mass destruction that cause a war, people?)
And why does the Conservative party take money from Russian oligarchs with links to Russia (even wining and dining them with personal meetings that have been won at party auctions) and somehow it’s Corbyn who is the Russian sympathiser?
The papers lie. They slant things the way they want to. And who owns the papers and sets the agenda in this country? I know it’s hard to take but the trick of the rich has ALWAYS been to pit the poor against the poor. If the poor stood together the world might be a different place. I’m not asking for communism...I don’t actually mind the rich being rich IF everyone has a good basic standard of life - the right to health, food and shelter and self respect. And don’t say to me that everyone can get there if they work hard enough....we all know people who need more help than others and we should be compassionate enough to help them unconditionally. People should be able to live secure safe lives. And don’t tell me that Conservatives care about all this - the evidence I have from my own experience and eyes is that they talk about these things but then just take it out on the poorest and most vulnerable in society.
Open your eyes. The Labour Party is talking about morals and caring for people. If you hate Corbyn try and work out why you would let dislike of this man make you vote for Conservatives who really do not care about society.
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Brexit
Sept 27, 2019 11:00:53 GMT
Post by Latecomer on Sept 27, 2019 11:00:53 GMT
Corbyn voted REMAIN in the referendum and has gone on record as having voted that way. However you look at it (and I voted remain and would still do so and am still sad) about half the voters, for whatever reasons, voted to leave the EU. We cannot disenfranchise these people, it is not democratic. We have to come to some solution that works. I find the Labour reasoning completely rational on this issue. As for Corbyn, I find it hard to believe that people find him more of a threat than Johnson. Have people been reading too much inflammatory press? I can get that you may not like the man but seriously? Corbyn voted remain for a Tory Brexit. When he is negotiating the deal I could see him voting leave. Corbyn voted REMAIN in the original referendum....in 2016. He also campaigned for remain, admittedly he mirrored the view of many remain voters, saying he thought “on balance” that, whilst not perfect, it was better to stay in than leave. It was a nuanced view (echoed in many a front room round the country). With Corbyn you often get a thought through response that it is hard to put into a “sound bite” and that is one reason he is not the most effective politician. He is, however, I believe, a reasonable man and one who has tried to compromise in all this and even shifted his position, when facts became evident (customs union=necessary because of Irish border) If he does vote leave it will be for a “least damaging” deal that cuts political union but keeps trading ties and workers rights and environmental standards. |
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Brexit
Sept 27, 2019 10:26:52 GMT
Post by Latecomer on Sept 27, 2019 10:26:52 GMT
Corbyn voted REMAIN in the referendum and has gone on record as having voted that way. However you look at it (and I voted remain and would still do so and am still sad) about half the voters, for whatever reasons, voted to leave the EU. We cannot disenfranchise these people, it is not democratic. We have to come to some solution that works. I find the Labour reasoning completely rational on this issue.
As for Corbyn, I find it hard to believe that people find him more of a threat than Johnson. Have people been reading too much inflammatory press? I can get that you may not like the man but seriously?
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Brexit
Sept 26, 2019 23:22:22 GMT
Post by Latecomer on Sept 26, 2019 23:22:22 GMT
I think people need to really think about this in a different way
Dont just say ”but the people voted to leave” in a “stamp my foot” sort of way. What do we actually want a few years down the road?
We need to come together around something that everyone can live with.
The reason Parliament has not voted for a deal is that the Conservatives have been, frankly, rubbish at getting one. They don’t know what they want and they have made no attempt at even working that out. It is not the fault of Parliament that they have not voted for the deals put to them...they have all been RUBBISH! It is not because they all wish to frustrate Brexit (most acknowledge that there should be some sort of Brexit).
So, HOW DO WE SORT IT?
We vote for Labour in the next election, they get a “Norway” style safe Brexit where we are no longer in political union with the EU but we have access to their market (this is the ONLY sort of Brexit that will ever work in Ireland/Northen Ireland.) Then we all vote again for either the deal or remain.
Crashing out is just plain silly as you just have to make a deal again with us in a chaotic situation (far more harm to us that the EU, plus we are an Island so non-frictionless trade causes delays at pinch points ie the sea) The only people who gain from crashing out are currency speculators. Dont let them win!
So in a few years we are either like Norway (I can live with that) or in the EU. I can live with that. Then we have all those conversations with places as to why they wanted sooooo much to leave....what did they hate and why? Was it the EU or was it Austerity?
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Post by Latecomer on Sept 26, 2019 16:25:53 GMT
The government is being stopped calling a General Election, stopped honouring the referendum result, stopped being able to have a queens speech and now even stopped having their party conference when the other major parties have had theirs, yet it's the government being called undemocratic because they tried to prorogue parliament? They are the only one standing up for it. And don't get me started on the lib dems, who have the word democrat in their name yet now have a policy to completely ignore a democratic vote. They could have had an election.....but no one trusted Johnson not to crash us out They could have had a Brexit deal.....if they had compromised with Labour They can still prorogue for 3/4 days for a Queens Speech The Labour party offered to only hold uncontentious business on their conference days but this was turned down by Conservatives. |
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Post by Latecomer on Sept 25, 2019 20:37:05 GMT
So tired of this. Labour want to negotiate a much better Brexit (Norwayish, close trading but no political union - admittedly worse in my view than remain but I can understand why some people don't want political union) and then they will ask the people what they think. People saying Parliament has “obstructed Brexit” are being simplistic - the referendum didn’t say we had to vote for Theresa May’s Blind Brexit. It was a BAD DEAL, so parliament didn’t vote it through. They were being responsible. It wasn’t just Labour who thought it was a bad deal....all parties (including a lot of conservatives) voted against it.
So much of this was Theresa May’s fault....didn’t try to build consensus after the vote, just blundered along trying to keep everyone in the dark. And then made a pig’s ear of the job.
However, no good saying just because we are FED UP with it all we should just get ANYTHING...we will have to Iive with this deal!
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Post by Latecomer on Sept 25, 2019 9:46:09 GMT
I marched for the first time when Johnson prorogued parliament. I may not have liked what other politicians did in the past but to shut down parliament to stifle debate and scrutiny was essentially a coup. I do not always like what parliament decides but I acknowledge that their authority top trumps anything else (including a referendum that was advisory even if the executive at the time said it would be binding)
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Post by Latecomer on Sept 25, 2019 7:46:36 GMT
Corbyn cant do vote of no confidence as this plays into Johnson’s hands....the PM has to recommend an alternative government within 14 days if one can be found, and he will just refuse to do so, he then gets to call an election on the date he wants, so could make it for after Oct 31st and then just prorogue parliament for the election.....even if he swears blind he would have an election BEFORE 31st Oct, do any of us believe him? He has the power to change the election date after it’s set. So....
No vote of confidence until we can be sure Boris Johnson will not abuse his power as he is not to be trusted. It is a sorry state of affairs but The PM cannot be trusted.
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Post by Latecomer on Sept 16, 2019 7:38:28 GMT
Yes, definitely come across this. Toy Story 3 had me in pieces as it was about children growing up and leaving home. Have to say I rather like it when this happens as I am a very “on the level” person in real life, so I reckon theatre helps me to release all those emotions in a safe place! Apologies to people next to me when something does come close to home and I’m sitting there with tears streaming down my face!!! I think it is also why there are such varied reviews sometimes....now I am older I can identify with different situations that would have passed me by when younger (Death of a Salesman is the one that recently caught me by surprise). Sometimes the play will give a helpful angle or different view point to something I have experienced, or just makes me realise that an event in my life has actually affected me more than I thought it had.
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