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Post by bimse on Dec 17, 2017 20:09:19 GMT
I thought Elaine was great but I think she was miscast. She wasn't a very good baddie. I'd have said perfect casting as a baddie. Just for the record that wasn’t my quote 🤭
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Post by bimse on Dec 17, 2017 18:27:50 GMT
Norman Lamont an actor? Since when? Well I suppose he has to be a bit careful with his drainpipe when Julian’s around... Well said @caiphas ! I’d forgotten about him , maybe that’s who they’d lined up 🤣
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Post by bimse on Dec 17, 2017 18:24:00 GMT
I believe Biggins is retiring from Panto after this season - so another seasoned pro leaves the stage. There are still traditional pantos round the country - Oxford and Chipping Norton being but two. No star names - though Oxford, at least, is trying to make things more 'relevant' these days which rather takes away from the traditions a bit. But star names in Panto have been around for well over a century - sports stars would often be seen taking the stage. It is still a genre that leaves me cold - but it is the way in to theatregoing for many children and long may that continue (as long it is good!) I’ve read somewhere online (can’t find the source) that Biggins has agreed to one more season after this , at a theatre that means a lot to him . I don’t know if that might refer to the Palladium , but I’ve seen a quote in the past that he has a great affection for the Theatre Royal in Plymouth .
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Post by bimse on Dec 17, 2017 18:19:07 GMT
Having seen many pantos over the years, this level of filth is not of course the norm in celebrity pantos, thank goodness. Yes I agree with oxfordsimon many of us know what to expect from certain celebrities. Personally I think I’m almost mourning the loss of the great panto performers of the past , some of whom I was lucky enough to see in Manchester , and I find it sad that today’s performers increasingly (but not always ) resort to this cheapness. It’s ruining a great tradition I’ll never , ever , forget seeing Roy Hudd , with Jack Tripp and company , at Sadlers Wells , positively slaying a largely adult audience with their pantomime skills . Laugh out loud humour from admirably talented performers. (A largely adult audience because, the Sadlers Wells management didn’t offer reduced prices for children , not in the evening, I’m not sure about matinees). Mention of Jack Tripp makes me want to name him as one of the greatest pantomime dames in the true sense of the word. Along with Kenneth Alan Taylor they were two of the best. Both knew the skill needed to deliver a smutty joke well over the heads of the younger audience members but smacking the adults right between the eyes. They also never let you forget they were a bloke in a frock. A great British tradition! I’ve posted before about my admiration for Jack Tripp, and I apologise that my needle is stuck. I feel privileged to have seen him perform , such a wonderfully inventive , talented , professional , and above all , funny performer. I went to Plymouth to see his Mother Goose , one of the best shows I’ve ever seen in my life , pantomime or otherwise. Pity he never did panto at the Palladium ..... Arthur Askey did Dame at the Palladium about 5 times, he was my least favourite Dame. I’ve gone off on one, reminiscing again !
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Post by bimse on Dec 17, 2017 18:09:21 GMT
I saw Barrowman's Dick in Birmingham last year. What appears in Manchester this year is the same show with a couple of cast changes. I also saw Clary's Dandini at the Palladium last year and when I'd seen them both, I wrote a piece in which I asked the question "when did panto get dirty". Because for me, that's what both of these shows are about. I deleted the piece because when I read it back it sounded a bit hypocritical. As Oxfordsimon says "Matters of taste are very personal and you open yourself up to abuse if you start trying to impose your views on others." However, my main gripe with both these shows is that they leave "double entendre" well behind and substitute it for just plain vulgarity. I like both performers I have named, but they have superimposed their own sense of "funny" (not humour) onto the art of panto. I also like pantomime and over the years I have watched and performed panto, I have learned something of the structure and constricts of it, these two shows screw it up and toss it out of the window like Jack's beans. But they throw money at it and do it with such style, the audience loves it. But, would I tell the local newspaper what I thought? Not a bloody chance! You are giving the shows the best free publicity it could ever have! Thank you hulmeman, you’ve expressed what I’m trying to get my head round. I totally agree with your statement that performers are indeed superimposing their own idea of funny (which doesn’t necessarily equal wit) onto pantomime, and substituting vulgarity for double entendres . There’s obviously an audience for it, but it’s not panto , for me it’s disappointing. I’m intrigued that this year Barrowmans Dick is lacking both a Dame and an Idle Jack character , both of which were in the Birmingham presentation. Any idea why? If you’ve seen the Manchester show I’d be interested to know if they’re missed ?
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Post by bimse on Dec 17, 2017 17:50:49 GMT
She probably expected a pantomime, one that would entertain the kids and her family, given the Krankies are in it. I don’t blame her for being very embarrassed at what sounds more like one of the adult pantos Jim Davidson used to do. As I posted above I have an aversion to Barrowman anyway and I know he can be unnecessarily crude, so I wouldn’t bother going . I’m just surprised the Krankies are involved and Barrowman doesn’t tone it down for a family audience. People are asking what she expected ..... obviously not everyone realises what they’ve paid good money for. Not everyone is like me and avidly follows reviews from previous pantos they’ve done, and in fairness to her it is advertised as a family show. Sorry that wont wash, like it or not you know exactly what you are getting with these celeb pantos. For whatever reason she has gone down the "disgusted of Tunbridge Wells" route. Having seen many pantos over the years, this level of filth is not of course the norm in celebrity pantos, thank goodness. Yes I agree with oxfordsimon many of us know what to expect from certain celebrities. Personally I think I’m almost mourning the loss of the great panto performers of the past , some of whom I was lucky enough to see in Manchester , and I find it sad that today’s performers increasingly (but not always ) resort to this cheapness. It’s ruining a great tradition I’ll never , ever , forget seeing Roy Hudd , with Jack Tripp and company , at Sadlers Wells , positively slaying a largely adult audience with their pantomime skills . Laugh out loud humour from admirably talented performers. (A largely adult audience because, the Sadlers Wells management didn’t offer reduced prices for children , not in the evening, I’m not sure about matinees).
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Post by bimse on Dec 17, 2017 17:11:39 GMT
OK now that I am sober, my thoughts on the show. I thought it was fabulous, equalled last year in most ways. The sets were fabulous, the costumes beautiful. The special effects were also fabulous, especially the opening and the end of Act One (not as spectacular as last year, but still great) and the ship in Act 2). The cast were all around fantastic. Julian can get away with murder and he owns it. He was amazing. Gary Wilmott was great too, though I wanted more from his costumes. Paul and Sam were great, with a bit from last year repeated, but still hilarious. Diversity were good, broke the show a bit in Act 1, but their Act 2 worked better. Nigel was fabulous, stealing the show with his little moments. The Cat was fine, thankless role. Really I went for Charlie and Emma. Emma didn't get much to do, but she worked a horrible dress, sang beautifully, was funny and wprked her usual charm. Loved her as always. Charlie was fab, dancing his ass off, singing like a dream and working his natural charm. He knows how to pull an audience in and I was so here for it! You could tell fans of his were in, several, including myself, went crazy when the joke was made about Hello Dolly! And he pulled off those leggings very, very well! Now. Elaine. Elaine f***ing Paige! She was everything! She was so fabulous, she was hilarious, workef that tail for Jesus, and her singing those iconic songs had the audience in awe. Especially when she sang her number from Sunset Boulevard, and hit that big note, she really earned that midsong applause. She was juzt amazing, I genuinely got emotional on her first number as I was seeing her live for the first time. She didn't dissapoint, she was terrific! Is it dirty and smutty, yes. Did I care, nope. I had so much fun, and there was barelg any kids in the Stalls at least, and I hate children anyway, so I don't care how dirty it is. Just fabulous, go! I agree with most of this. I thought Elaine was great but I think she was miscast. She wasn't a very good baddie. Paul was a brilliant baddie last year so maybe we were just spoilt. Also enough of Paul Zerdin now. Repeating material in different venues is fine but repeating material in the same venue is not so fine. For me his scenes were boring purely because I knew what was coming as it was the same as last year. I wondered how Elaine’s “baddie” would be, she's a great singer but no actress, but I guess this isn’t Shakespeare, so acting might be desirable but not essential to the job description. I’m told that a well known actor turned down the role of King Rat because he’s not keen on Julian Clary’s act.
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Post by bimse on Dec 17, 2017 16:57:06 GMT
That woman needs to get a grip! What did she expect? She probably expected a pantomime, one that would entertain the kids and her family, given the Krankies are in it. I don’t blame her for being very embarrassed at what sounds more like one of the adult pantos Jim Davidson used to do. As I posted above I have an aversion to Barrowman anyway and I know he can be unnecessarily crude, so I wouldn’t bother going . I’m just surprised the Krankies are involved and Barrowman doesn’t tone it down for a family audience. People are asking what she expected ..... obviously not everyone realises what they’ve paid good money for. Not everyone is like me and avidly follows reviews from previous pantos they’ve done, and in fairness to her it is advertised as a family show.
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Post by bimse on Dec 17, 2017 15:43:51 GMT
Yes the difference is barrowman isn't doing innuendo. Dick jokes are one thing but groping another character is not panto. This production does sound more about barrowman than panto. But it shouldn't be a surprise with him. I think you’ve hit the nail on the head @outlander, Barrowmans attempt at humour is not innuendo and it’s not panto. It’s just horribly crude. Julian Clary on the other hand can do innuendo brilliantly, he is funny, and doesn’t offend with it. I’m not averse to such humour , and I’d love to see him in the Palladium panto , we know what to expect from him and he’s loved for it. But I doubt I’d take kids .
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Post by bimse on Dec 16, 2017 18:25:54 GMT
I forgot to add, there’s no Dame or Idle Jack characters in this panto either, very strange , and unfortunately the whole show is more or less given over to Barrowman and the Krankies, sadly with the above result .
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Post by bimse on Dec 16, 2017 18:21:12 GMT
Caiphas posted about this in the London Palladium thread and I replied on there .
My neighbours saw the show , they’re not easily offended , they have a good sense of humour , but they felt it overstepped the mark and was embarrassingly crude rather than cheeky innuendo . Families will attend because of the Krankies , and I doubt they’d expect this sort of constant rudeness , Barrowman or not. But then I find him totally unfunny and self indulgent anyway, so I admit I’m completely biased and wouldn’t attend for that reason . Pity because the Krankies can be hilarious and don't need to be crude to get laughs .
Julian Clary gets away with innuendo , he’s witty with it. Barrowman is just crude .
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Post by bimse on Dec 15, 2017 17:56:19 GMT
I had read about this, and also my neighbours went to the show, they’re very good humoured , not at all prudish and enjoy a cheeky joke, but they said they felt there was just too much rudeness, too often, for the kids. There’s a difference between broad, cheeky humour and embarrassingly rude. They were surprised there was no Dame, no idle jack type character either . I wonder why this is ? Does Barrowman think he’s so funny that he can carry both those roles as well as his own , or is that just 2 less wages to pay? Manchester has had some very disappointing pantos lately .
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Post by bimse on Dec 11, 2017 18:27:22 GMT
Personally dont really think Peter Pan is the right for panto I agree. It's an odd choice, as it is very "story-heavy" and doesn't have much potential for crazy set pieces like normal panto. The Regent's Park Open Air version is definitive on that one, I'd say - can't wait for May to see it again. Peter Pan never seems to work as a pantomime for me, especially if they try to shoehorn in a Dame character in as Mrs Smee , or a Magic Mermaid character. It’s much better as a play, but then that’s how I remember Peter Pan from my childhood .
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Post by bimse on Dec 10, 2017 19:40:39 GMT
It's not uncommon for the billed stars to write their own material for their "solo" section. In the DW programme it says "Extra material written by..." - I'm sure both Clary and Zerdin were credited there, but I can't be 100% sure so will check when I get home later! But yes, it's certainly not their fault in that Michael Harrison could say "come on Paul, you use this stuff every year, come up with something new" but doesn't, so he must be happy with it. I can't speak of this year as I haven't seen it yet, but in the Cinderella programme, it does say "additional contributions by Zerdin, Clary and O'Grady" as well as 3 or 4 others. In the past, pantomime scripts would be part scripted and otherwise would just have the scene number, the name of the character (eg scene 3: Idle Jack ) and “business” written next to it. That’s where the performer had to include one of their own routines . I wonder how much of this happens these days . I’m sure it will still be the case for performers such as Gary Wilmot, and Paul Zerdin so I’m surprised he is doing the exact same routines.
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Post by bimse on Dec 7, 2017 6:42:24 GMT
Closely followed by “Its A Small World Laa-la-la” which Disney is also responsible for. And Bibbidi-Bobbidi-Boo not far behind
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Post by bimse on Dec 6, 2017 15:34:36 GMT
They did that audience interaction thing, with the cast doing tricks and stuff in the stalls before curtain up on the Conley “longest cold in the world” Tour. Hideous. And if Marcus is being truthful when he says that during the show he interacts with the people who look away then I think that’s odd, if not a bit malicious. Leave people alone if they don’t want to take part. Cajoling audience members to join in on a kazoo, selecting people who look away (thus indicating their discomfort ), how unpleasant . Must admit I’d definitely hate this , I don’t pay good money to be embarrassed. I saw Barnum at the reopening season at the Manchester Opera House. Apart from enjoying the charismatic performance of Michael Crawford , it’s not my favourite show.
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Post by bimse on Dec 5, 2017 19:39:12 GMT
The problem with The Heat Is On - as with London - is the very loud shouting from the marines and the smacking of the steel chairs which makes a lot of the girl's solo lines hard to make out. I would agree, there seemed to be way too much going on both visually and vocally, which, without prior knowledge, would make it difficult to understand what was going on . For a setting the scene routine it’s very noisy and frenetic, but I guess that’s how it would be in reality.
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Post by bimse on Dec 5, 2017 18:50:54 GMT
Thank you @theatremadness, like many of the other posters I have been wondering when this revival would make it on to the screens of those of us with gas tv . My all time favourite line came when the late Debbie Reynolds as Grace’s loud and very annoying mum arrived , constantly singing show tunes. Grace asked her mum if she’d do her a favour, and go and see her (Grace’s) counsellor. The mum refused, saying she doesn't need counselling . Grace says “I didn't mean that , it’s just that he thinks I’m making you up “.
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Post by bimse on Dec 5, 2017 18:39:40 GMT
I think the Wales Millenium Centre is one of my favourite theatres, it’s a beautiful building inside and out and looks like it was just built yesterday. The auditorium is stunning with its wood and (I think slate) frontages to the balconies and boxes , the exterior is attractive and imaginative, and the foyers, bars and catering areas are spacious and clean , and I found the staff all round were friendly and polite . I second all of the above. The WMC is a fantastic theatre! Did have quite bad legroom on Saturday though, which surprised me as it’s always been great before. For future reference, where did you sit @steve1006? I was in the stalls row k, centre block to one side, but not actually in the side block. Leg room was fine , but I’m not tall anyway .
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Post by bimse on Dec 5, 2017 16:39:24 GMT
Saw this in Cardiff last night. Very unimpressed with the sound quality in Act I. Sounded like an overamplified bootleg recording! Was better in Act II. Didn’t like the guy playing the Engineer. Far far too camp, bordering on laughable. Kim was fantastic. And, apart from the sound, the production values were excellent as expected. I also saw Miss Saigon in Cardiff, on Monday 4th December, the house was just about full from what I could see in the stalls (admittedly I couldn't see the upper circle) . I thoroughly enjoyed the production , as spectacular and slick as the original production which I saw in 1989 . The helicopter scene is, if anything, more dramatic than the original , very well done. I agree with steve10086 the sound was very harsh at times, especially at the beginning , and most of the words were unintelligible, but it improved later on . I thought the opening was a bit frenetic too, it was hard to tell what was going on (especially since the sound wasn’t great. The performances were great though , especially Kim who was wonderful, and Chris, the engineer on the night I saw it was the “alternative” who had a tendency to over act and again wasn’t very intelligible most of the time . I think the Wales Millenium Centre is one of my favourite theatres, it’s a beautiful building inside and out and looks like it was just built yesterday. The auditorium is stunning with its wood and (I think slate) frontages to the balconies and boxes , the exterior is attractive and imaginative, and the foyers, bars and catering areas are spacious and clean , and I found the staff all round were friendly and polite .
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Post by bimse on Nov 29, 2017 15:54:14 GMT
Follow-up to the Elaine Paige story: someone I chat to online regularly was also at the concert, and went to the stage door after. Apparently, the youngster and another youngster with similar condition were also waiting. They had a huge bag of memorabilia... and Ms Paige signed it all. I won't have a thing said against her, now. Nice to hear this, very kind of the young lady to shout out her appreciation, and very kind of Elaine Paige to sign all the memorabilia for both young people.
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Post by bimse on Nov 26, 2017 16:31:55 GMT
Am I the only one who hadn't bothered to book yet but lowkey doesn't really mind waiting? 😅 no you’re not the only one , I can also wait , along with a few other posters above. must admit it’s a show I know nothing about, subject or music, except it’s been a big hit in the States. I’ve not researched it because I can’t splash out on a London trip and mad ticket prices too often , so I’ll wait and see if it grabs me as I get to hear the music . Maybe I’ll have to await the U.K. tour !
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Post by bimse on Nov 24, 2017 21:02:47 GMT
I believe your exact phrase was "try and be democratic instead", meaning "accept the result". Of course Leave voters are entitled to continue to make their case too; those of us who voted differently, though, are equally entitled not to be told to "be democratic" by people who very clearly don't know what the word means. I believe you’re just being pedantic. I understand what I’m saying thank you . You really don’t need to explain words to a poor leave voter . (Humour intended)
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Post by bimse on Nov 24, 2017 19:41:40 GMT
EVERY disaster ? Stop exaggerating and don’t be so condescending. Try and be democratic instead . "Democratic"? Democracy is not a one-time only event. Those of us on the opposite side of the argument are entitled to continue to make the case for EU membership/EEA membership/whatever up to and beyond the moment the UK leaves the EU ( if we do, because there are still scenarios in which the process could be stopped). THAT is democracy. Dissent has not yet been outlawed, and the fact that the other side won the vote does not mean the rest of us all have to fall into line. It works both ways , leave voters are entitled to continue to make the case for leave being the best option. Dissent has not been outlawed? I thought it had , because it feels like dissent to have voted leave, with the awful things being said about leave voters by remainers. And for the record, I have never said that there can’t be an opposing view. I don’t know where you’ve got that from, because I agree we don’t all have to fall into line, and believe me, I won’t. ( who was it said you should fall into line? Not me).
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Post by bimse on Nov 24, 2017 15:49:26 GMT
To say nothing of the EUs spiteful and obstructive behaviour Calm down. You've had your way. The UK is leaving the EU as a result of your vote. Every disaster from now on is your own fault. EVERY disaster ? Stop exaggerating and don’t be so condescending. Try and be democratic instead .
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