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Post by shady23 on Feb 23, 2019 9:07:51 GMT
Also a lot of tours seem to be cancelled short notice these days when performers could have already paid out money for digs. I hope they are paid back for this and not left out of pocket.
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Post by welsh_tenor on Feb 23, 2019 10:18:22 GMT
I’m quite interested to know what your standard jobbing actor/ensemble member or musician on a tour is earning. I know it’s terribly nosey of me, but I often watch people on stage and think “I wonder how much he/she is getting for this”. I just think touring must be very gruelling and wonder what the compensation is like. I asked a similar question on the amnesty page a while back and someone kindly shared this... solt.co.uk/_resources/assets/attachment/full/0/491808.pdfSo looks like your standard ensemble member gets £694 a week before adding increments for understudy/dance captain etc.
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Post by wickedgrin on Feb 23, 2019 11:12:49 GMT
The equity minimum pay grades are quite complex in that they vary depending on whether it is WE (commercial or subsidised) and touring and the size of venue (seating capacity). Added on to this are other payments, dance captain, understudy payments, lines/small roles etc. It will be the role of the artists agent to negotiate their individual fees but it is safe to say that producers will only pay the minimum required as simply demand for jobs simply outstrips supply.
So if Actor A is cast in the ensemble but their agent wants more money for them than the minimum offered by the producer, the role will go to Actor B and so on!
Minimum rates can only be negotiated upwards if the actor has a unique ability which in the producers eyes no-one else can deliver. Top of the bill "names" and stars agents can negotiate high sums as these performers are unique and the producer needs the "name" to sell the show. This is where there is often HUGE discrepancy between actors pay onstage between the ensemble (who can do most of the work) and the star who does far less!
Pantomime is the biggest example of this when the "star" can be on say £10k (or considerably more) per week and an ensemble member of the cast being paid £700.
I always think it is a nice gesture when I hear that the star of the pantomime takes the entire cast, crew and band out for a meal one evening as a token of appreciation of how hard they all work.
Actors on tour usually arrange their own "digs". They are given a touring allowance on top their salary. Having known actors on tour they invariably say that this does not cover the entire cost.
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Post by missthelma on Feb 23, 2019 11:36:25 GMT
I have to be honest and say am utterly astonished that an ensemble member gets £700. Nothing to do with their talent or the huge amounts of work/training they do but looking at some of the huge ensembles in musicals it's easy to see how prices have rocketed.
It's a lot more than many people get, a friend of mine is doing caring currently for the unseemly sum of £9 an hour. What a skewed society we live in with the different values we place on the work people do. Mind you, we will always need carers and the like but acting is a very precarious profession and there can be long periods of unemployment. Swings and roundabouts.
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Post by partytentdown on Feb 23, 2019 11:45:22 GMT
I have to be honest and say am utterly astonished that an ensemble member gets £700. Nothing to do with their talent or the huge amounts of work/training they do but looking at some of the huge ensembles in musicals it's easy to see how prices have rocketed. It's a lot more than many people get, a friend of mine is doing caring currently for the unseemly sum of £9 an hour. What a skewed society we live in with the different values we place on the work people do. Mind you, we will always need carers and the like but acting is a very precarious profession and there can be long periods of unemployment. Swings and roundabouts. Remember this is before tax. Plus, with respect to your friend, being a performer is a skilled job that only a few people can do. Like you might argue that paying a locksmith £100 to change your locks in 15 mins is expensive when you're actually paying for their training, experience, niche skill etc.
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Post by NeilVHughes on Feb 23, 2019 12:02:30 GMT
Suppose the next question is how often an actor is actually working.
This figure needs to include living whilst resting, I assume most ‘jobbing’ actors would be working in the service sector if at all during lean periods, i.e. the low pay sector and potentially having to take days off for acting purposes further diminishing their opportunity for employment.
The precarious financial position and the need to deal with what I assume a high rate of rejection is the reason I could never contemplate a life in the arts, kudos to the ones who try.
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Post by missthelma on Feb 23, 2019 12:03:56 GMT
I have to be honest and say am utterly astonished that an ensemble member gets £700. Nothing to do with their talent or the huge amounts of work/training they do but looking at some of the huge ensembles in musicals it's easy to see how prices have rocketed. It's a lot more than many people get, a friend of mine is doing caring currently for the unseemly sum of £9 an hour. What a skewed society we live in with the different values we place on the work people do. Mind you, we will always need carers and the like but acting is a very precarious profession and there can be long periods of unemployment. Swings and roundabouts. Remember this is before tax. Plus, with respect to your friend, being a performer is a skilled job that only a few people can do. Like you might argue that paying a locksmith £100 to change your locks in 15 mins is expensive when you're actually paying for their training, experience, niche skill etc. I have to be honest, your answer made me a little bit peeved so am going to go away and think about it for a while! What I will say is that there are a lot of highly skilled workers who don't get £700 a week and do a ton of training - teachers, social workers, nurses, physiotherapists, criminal justice workers, mental health workers etc. Not forgetting people who may not have a ton of training but have to do jobs such as policing and prison officer work that is enormously skilled.
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Post by samuelwhiskers on Feb 23, 2019 12:09:09 GMT
Is a hundred quid a day, pre-tax, pre agent 10-15%, really that vast a sum? Especially if you're touring and having to pay your digs out of your per diem.
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Post by alece10 on Feb 23, 2019 12:35:18 GMT
Always wondered if actors go on the dole when they are not working
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Post by wickedgrin on Feb 23, 2019 12:43:46 GMT
Always wondered if actors go on the dole when they are not working Some do - some don't. The benefits system makes it very difficult to sign on and off for short periods I understand. Regarding ensemble pay - as has been pointed out - this is gross pay. The artist has to pay an agent at least 10% of this, and of course put aside tax monies. The biggest issue is the unemployment rates. A pantomime may only be for say 5 weeks. A tour or WE contract is typically for 12 months for a musical - a godsend to a jobbing performer. This can be followed though by a long period of unemployment! This is especially true if you have been working abroad or on a cruise ship for 6 months - you can come back to the UK and find you have been forgotten about - even by your agent!
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Post by missthelma on Feb 23, 2019 12:44:46 GMT
Is a hundred quid a day, pre-tax, pre agent 10-15%, really that vast a sum? Especially if you're touring and having to pay your digs out of your per diem. No, it definitely isn't. It's easy to forget agent and manager fees actually which are generally a lot more than say, union dues. Which actors have as well.
Having just massacred a few weeds in the back garden I realise I am annoyed with the injustice of society (thumps fist on imaginary table, produces placard about justice for all) and how it's ok to pay somebody running around football field £1,000's a week or for example Will Smith $25 million for a film or -being utterly and cruelly disparaging here, am not serious - £700 a week to do a couple of high kicks in the chorus line when those looking after our weakest and most vulnerable members of society get £10 an hour if they're lucky. I don't begrudge anyone what they get paid, all jobs have downsides and fallow periods.
And apologies to partytentdown if I came across as angry with you, I wasn't at all!
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Post by Dawnstar on Feb 23, 2019 13:27:08 GMT
I have to be honest and say am utterly astonished that an ensemble member gets £700. Nothing to do with their talent or the huge amounts of work/training they do but looking at some of the huge ensembles in musicals it's easy to see how prices have rocketed. It's a lot more than many people get, a friend of mine is doing caring currently for the unseemly sum of £9 an hour. What a skewed society we live in with the different values we place on the work people do. Mind you, we will always need carers and the like but acting is a very precarious profession and there can be long periods of unemployment. Swings and roundabouts. Remember this is before tax. Plus, with respect to your friend, being a performer is a skilled job that only a few people can do. Like you might argue that paying a locksmith £100 to change your locks in 15 mins is expensive when you're actually paying for their training, experience, niche skill etc. Given that we are constantly being told that the NHS is short staffed whereas there are far more actors than acting jobs, it could be argued that being a carer should be a more in demand job with employers than being an actor! Also, while they're not going to have had the length of training that say doctors have had, I would assume (hope) that carers have had a reasonable amount of training & experience.
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Post by partytentdown on Feb 23, 2019 15:00:38 GMT
Remember this is before tax. Plus, with respect to your friend, being a performer is a skilled job that only a few people can do. Like you might argue that paying a locksmith £100 to change your locks in 15 mins is expensive when you're actually paying for their training, experience, niche skill etc. I have to be honest, your answer made me a little bit peeved so am going to go away and think about it for a while! What I will say is that there are a lot of highly skilled workers who don't get £700 a week and do a ton of training - teachers, social workers, nurses, physiotherapists, criminal justice workers, mental health workers etc. Not forgetting people who may not have a ton of training but have to do jobs such as policing and prison officer work that is enormously skilled.
I have to apologise, I misread that your friend is doing 'catering' not 'caring' work. So my argument was that catering is less skilled than performing. But I totally see that care work is a very particular skill indeed. Sorry!
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Post by partytentdown on Feb 23, 2019 15:08:51 GMT
I have to be honest, your answer made me a little bit peeved so am going to go away and think about it for a while! What I will say is that there are a lot of highly skilled workers who don't get £700 a week and do a ton of training - teachers, social workers, nurses, physiotherapists, criminal justice workers, mental health workers etc. Not forgetting people who may not have a ton of training but have to do jobs such as policing and prison officer work that is enormously skilled.
I have to apologise, I misread that your friend is doing 'catering' not 'caring' work. So my argument was that catering is less skilled than performing. But I totally see that care work is a very particular skill indeed. Sorry! And apologies to any caterers. I'll get my coat...
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Post by samuelwhiskers on Feb 23, 2019 17:14:16 GMT
Not denying there’s a huge and unfair wage disparity in society, but theatre is not the problem. Nearly all playwrights and directors end up making far less than minimum wage (one Olivier winning director once told me they’d totted up the amount of hours they’d spent developing a highly successful show and divided by their salary, and it came out at about 20p an hour). Actors are only well-paid if they land a hit or become famous; they don’t make much more than minimum wage and are expected to work for free for years and pay thousands in training.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2019 17:46:18 GMT
Remember this is before tax. Plus, with respect to your friend, being a performer is a skilled job that only a few people can do. Like you might argue that paying a locksmith £100 to change your locks in 15 mins is expensive when you're actually paying for their training, experience, niche skill etc. I have to be honest, your answer made me a little bit peeved so am going to go away and think about it for a while! What I will say is that there are a lot of highly skilled workers who don't get £700 a week and do a ton of training - teachers, social workers, nurses, physiotherapists, criminal justice workers, mental health workers etc. Not forgetting people who may not have a ton of training but have to do jobs such as policing and prison officer work that is enormously skilled.
Skills are all subjective why does the Chief Exec of a private company get paid many times what the PM, Police Chief Constables, Service Heads get paid etc.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2019 17:56:23 GMT
Because capitalism.
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Post by dippy on Feb 24, 2019 18:20:24 GMT
Performer friends I’ve spoken with about this have said they’ve had an allowance for digs but it’s never/rarely enough to cover the cost of the digs. I found this article while looking into the matter: www.thestage.co.uk/news/2018/rising-cost-digs-poses-risk-touring-warn-theatre-stars/ which mentions that digs are around 120-180 a week and if they are touring then it should definitely cover that. However it's the non-touring and just re-locating which seems to be a bit more problematic.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2019 0:09:19 GMT
I expect performers in big hit shows get very good bonus payments for 90% plus sold out shows. If this is not the case then equity have not done their job.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2019 19:14:14 GMT
This youtube video explains the tour digs/payment allowance quite well (basically you CAN quite often not only get accommodation within the allowance, but if you're savvy pocket a bit too. But as Scott also explains sometimes you can end up majorly out of pocket)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2019 19:18:20 GMT
Also re: the payment/day rates for actors V other professions.
To use teachers as an argument, as I know that one, the £700 a week isn't far off what supply rates would be in London, in fact you might get a bit more depending on your agency. And I used supply as like actors, it's both pro rata in that it's not a year-round salary.
Or on the flip side, I got paid, I think £150 for a day's adult teaching, now while my hourly rate on the day looks high, that doesn't factor in the prep that went into it (for this one I'd have been earning about 20p an hour). Similarly with actors, who have to prep for a role, take dance classes/excercise classes/voice lessons all related to their job that comes out of their pocket rather than say if you worked for Tescos and needed the training to make you able to do your job properly, the company would pay. So all of this is a factor.
Should everyone from caterers to carers also be being paid for? of course. But I believe that's a bigger discussion about capitalism, Tories and Brexit among many other things.
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Post by joem on Feb 26, 2019 22:51:26 GMT
I have to be honest, your answer made me a little bit peeved so am going to go away and think about it for a while! What I will say is that there are a lot of highly skilled workers who don't get £700 a week and do a ton of training - teachers, social workers, nurses, physiotherapists, criminal justice workers, mental health workers etc. Not forgetting people who may not have a ton of training but have to do jobs such as policing and prison officer work that is enormously skilled.
Skills are all subjective why does the Chief Exec of a private company get paid many times what the PM, Police Chief Constables, Service Heads get paid etc. There are no specific requirements or qualifications to become PM and performance in the job can never be objectively determined since the party system generally speaking precludes any impartial judgement.
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