621 posts
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Post by christya on Sept 19, 2017 15:21:55 GMT
While I understand that once it became apparent that the theatre wasn't going to be ready they really didn't have any 'good' options, I do feel as though it's being brushed off a little. The initial communications barely counted as an apology, not to mention how ridiculous it was to read about it for the first time on Facebook of all things.
They've left thousands of people disappointed and out of pocket, and it doesn't seem to be anything much to them. I'd have expected a sincere apology, daily updates along the lines of "We're still working to reseat those affected by the change, don't worry if you haven't heard yet, we'll take care of you" and possibly something extra for the people affected - nothing massive, just free programmes or something as a little gesture. But then I suppose when you're running a show as huge as this one, you don't have to care - someone else will always take the tickets.
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71 posts
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Post by samjane92 on Sept 19, 2017 15:32:16 GMT
I do feel that those affected are meant to feel grateful that this is being done for them, like it is somehow their own fault. This exactly! The cost of travel, sightseeing if not local, other shows if a matinee/ evening is available, hotels etc. I dread to think how much this change has cost people. It is also mad that if I hadn't read this board I would still be worrying about which date I had been given. If the seats have been reassigned the least they could do is tell us as soon as this is the case rather than having to go digging into the ticket master account on a computer because the relevant page doesn't show up on my iPhone.
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4,361 posts
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Post by shady23 on Sept 19, 2017 15:44:50 GMT
Still nothing on my account re what show I am allowed to attend, despite filling in the form straight away. 11 days ago. It really shouldn't take this long!
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311 posts
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Post by showoff on Sept 19, 2017 15:48:58 GMT
I do feel that those affected are meant to feel grateful that this is being done for them, like it is somehow their own fault. This exactly! The cost of travel, sightseeing if not local, other shows if a matinee/ evening is available, hotels etc. I dread to think how much this change has cost people. It is also mad that if I hadn't read this board I would still be worrying about which date I had been given. If the seats have been reassigned the least they could do is tell us as soon as this is the case rather than having to go digging into the ticket master account on a computer because the relevant page doesn't show up on my iPhone. Would it really be that much? Sightseeing? If you've booked something already you can always exchange the date. The same for hotels and travel down. I've managed to exchange all of those things to other dates on various occasions without any loss of money.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2017 16:02:07 GMT
Depends on what happens at the booking stage. Some hotels offer discounted rates if you're willing to take a non-refundable option, some airlines are more of a racket than a business, good luck getting any kind of refund from the train companies half the time, etc. Even if you've gone with the cheapest options, it's still London, it's still not necessarily going to be *cheap* cheap. It also depends where you're coming from, I've seen unhappy people who were planning to travel from the US and Japan for this.
Maybe you can change the date on, say, your Buckingham Palace tour ticket, but that's not much good if you've got an unsympathetic airline and a strict hotel. Maybe you booked a Hamilton matinee and a National Theatre evening show so can easily change that ticket, or maybe you booked a Hamilton matinee and another West End evening show with a ticketing agency that offers exchanges or refunds for literally no one. It's extremely possible to have invested quite a sum of money in a trip to London only to discover you're now up a creek without a paddle.
And even if we're not talking direct financial outlay, some people will have booked holiday from their workplace which they may now be unable to change, so there's personal cost involved too.
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71 posts
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Post by samjane92 on Sept 19, 2017 16:11:22 GMT
Would it really be that much? I was lucky this time as I was making a day trip but had I spent the £40 on a big fish ticket like I was going to do I would have lost that, or still gone and found another show for the evening, an outlay I haven't planned for. I then would have had to pay to do the same another weekend for the new Hamilton date. Travelling from outside of London means I need to make the most out of travel costs. If I am staying down I always book non refundable rooms to save money so would lose this had I been as organised as I usually am. As a guide that's a £33 train, booked as two singles as that's cheapest so £10 per ticket held as an admin fee if I try and exchange them. I pay for DMT+ and ATG so would get free exchanges but have had many circumstances before where shows wont refund because you can't make it regardless of if they had sold out or not. Many attractions are far cheaper to purchase if you pick a specific date and are then non exchangeable, or pay more for a flexible ticket if you have the hindsight of a show being cancelled. So around £100 had I booked the room, train and at least one show/ sightseeing activity. All would have been planned purely to see Hamilton with it being booked so far in advance. It might not seem alot to most people but for me that's not money I have to waste. Those who had booked to fly will have had significantly higher costs.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2017 16:11:46 GMT
Right I don't know if any of you have watched Grand Design, but people building and renovating houses suffer delays by months and years! The amount of work going into the restoration of the theatre here is substantial and for it to have only encountered a 6-week delay is - in my mind - phenomenonal. Very few construction projects complete on time and on budget. So for people to infer that more should have been done to prevent any delays is really quite hysterical.
I didn't book tickets, but I dare say somewhere in the terms and conditions you all agreed to on purchasing tickets there was probably a waiver including details of the restoration and any potential delays. People booking into the first few weeks really should have considered this.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2017 16:16:02 GMT
Oh, that's okay then. As long as a mere 6 week delay is - in your mind - phenomenal, then people don't have any right to be upset that they find themselves not only disappointed but also further out of pocket than they planned for.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2017 16:16:23 GMT
I'd hedge a bet that the real reason people are "outraged" at having to rebook is not because of the inconvenience but because they've lost of on bragging rights for being "one of the first to see the Uk production".
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2017 16:18:28 GMT
Oh, that's okay then. As long as a mere 6 week delay is - in your mind - phenomenal, then people don't have any right to be upset that they find themselves not only disappointed but also further out of pocket than they planned for. Like I said, I'd hedge a bet on this exact issue being covered in the terms and conditions on booking. If people didn't read them they've only got themselves to blame.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2017 16:48:49 GMT
Oh, that's okay then. As long as a mere 6 week delay is - in your mind - phenomenal, then people don't have any right to be upset that they find themselves not only disappointed but also further out of pocket than they planned for. Like I said, I'd hedge a bet on this exact issue being covered in the terms and conditions on booking. If people didn't read them they've only got themselves to blame. Really? Well let's ask those who bought tickets if there was such a clause in their transaction to say 'it's on your heads if we don't get the theatre built on time.' Sounds unlikely to me. I didn't buy tickets but I do feel terribly sorry for everyone who did and who finds themselves in this mess. I'm not the least bit bothered whether they bought them so early on in the run to say ' I was there!' We all want to look back and say 'I was there!' for something that's special to us. I would imagine quite a few who bought tickets for shows for the first couple of weeks do not live in London (or even the UK) and are completely unaware of how behind schedule the theatre looks.
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311 posts
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Post by showoff on Sept 19, 2017 17:08:50 GMT
Clearly it's not ideal, but there is enough warning.
Really, how many people have booked that many things already and losing that much money? I would expect it's minimal, it's mostly 'I could have booked and lost money.'
To be frank, you could book everything, come to London and then the show is cancelled for technical reasons on the night, things happen, life isn't always perfect, but they're making sure everyone gets a ticket and to see the show, which, really, is what everyone wanted.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2017 17:12:15 GMT
I think people are entitled to be upset, and obviously people who are left out of pocket are entitled to be more than upset in that respect, but I do have very little sympathy for people who booked flights from far away for the early previews, as that really can only have been for bragging rights of being one of the first to see the production, and even if there hadn't been major building works going on (which really people should have taken into account as it was public knowledge that a massive refurb was going on long before tickets went on sale), there is always a fairly high risk of early previews being cancelled.
So I can see both sides here, and I do think anyone who booked an early preview was always taking on a risk of cancellation in any circumstances and they should have realised that. I have much more sympathy for those who were booked for the latest of the cancelled shows, as they were well in to the preview period.
It also affects people who were booked after opening night as well - I did that deliberately so I could see the fixed show, but now I'm at a first week preview and who knows how complete a show I'll get to see!
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4,361 posts
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Post by shady23 on Sept 19, 2017 17:17:22 GMT
Clearly it's not ideal, but there is enough warning. Really, how many people have booked that many things already and losing that much money? I would expect it's minimal, it's mostly 'I could have booked and lost money.' To be frank, you could book everything, come to London and then the show is cancelled for technical reasons on the night, things happen, life isn't always perfect, but they're making sure everyone gets a ticket and to see the show, which, really, is what everyone wanted. I know of people flying in from the USA and Australia who may not agree the money they've spent is minimal.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2017 17:19:06 GMT
Clearly it's not ideal, but there is enough warning. Really, how many people have booked that many things already and losing that much money? I would expect it's minimal, it's mostly 'I could have booked and lost money.' To be frank, you could book everything, come to London and then the show is cancelled for technical reasons on the night, things happen, life isn't always perfect, but they're making sure everyone gets a ticket and to see the show, which, really, is what everyone wanted. I know of people flying in from the USA and Australia who may not agree the money they've spent is minimal. They chose to take the risk on an early preview though, which to my mind is frankly a bit silly for any show if you don't live relatively close to the theatre!
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311 posts
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Post by showoff on Sept 19, 2017 17:28:15 GMT
Clearly it's not ideal, but there is enough warning. Really, how many people have booked that many things already and losing that much money? I would expect it's minimal, it's mostly 'I could have booked and lost money.' To be frank, you could book everything, come to London and then the show is cancelled for technical reasons on the night, things happen, life isn't always perfect, but they're making sure everyone gets a ticket and to see the show, which, really, is what everyone wanted. I know of people flying in from the USA and Australia who may not agree the money they've spent is minimal. I'm not sure, but in my mind, if you can afford to fly into a country just to watch a preview of a musical, money mustn't be a shortage, so the relatively small amount lost cannot be the end of the world to them, surely? Especially as Hamilton is actually on in multiple places in the US right now with the shows and tour. As the poster above said, you know it's risky on previews, surely, I mean you could be watching a show that has quite a few kinks in it still too.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2017 18:03:32 GMT
I'm inclined to agree with the above that flying in for any theatre preview is always a gamble (cancelling of a first couple of shows isn't uncommon after all) and particularly one where the theatre is under renovation is a gamble I personally wouldn't be taking when said show is going to run for some time.
Granted a handful of that handful affected by international travel wouldn't know that- not being regular theatre folk perhaps. BUT let's be realistic, those travelling internationally for the first previews are highly likely to be Hamilton obsessives who are doing to to be among the first, and so DID book with full knowledge of the risks.
Lots of us travel for theatre, and every time we do we know there's a risk it won't pan out exactly as planned. Just like anyone who travels for football, concerts or whatnot.
Is it still a phenomenal cock-up of a situation? sure. Are Ticketmaster actually handling it in a fairly decent manner given a) their general form on such things b) size of the cock-up.
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12 posts
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Post by hereforham on Sept 19, 2017 18:08:48 GMT
If there was a reasonable chance the theatre wouldn't be ready then it could have been factored in to the original booking process or at the very least mentioned?
And then you could place whatever blame you want on those still willing to take the risk. The booking period was so strict and robust on their end that if anything it suggested a higher likelihood that everything would go to plan.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2017 18:13:04 GMT
I wasn't blaming anyone- I quite clearly state that it's a massive cock-up. I used the phrase masive cock-up. There is is again.
I just expressed the feeling that it falls into the category of 'one of those things' as in sometimes you book a concert and the singer cancels the tour (Lady Gaga) or a Producer turns out to be dodgy as hell and a tour gets pulled, or a building burns down or whatever. In this case someone cocked up royally, and it's a shame, but I just think if you book for literally the first couple of shows there was always a risk it might end up getting bumped.
It's not the fault of the ticket bookers, however it's also not a massive moral injustice. It is a giant cock up, but giant cock ups happen in life.
Also giant cocks. But that's another thread.
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Post by welsh_tenor on Sept 19, 2017 18:33:36 GMT
The flying debate is an interesting one, I've booked tickets to see Wicked in Zurich (don't judge me) and I booked the hotel and flight non-refundable before there was any real confirmation that the show was going ahead!
I took a risk that if the show got cancelled then I'd get a trip to Zurich for a weekend. Financially it was a risk but all based on the cost of a weekend away that I knew I could afford - as it happens it's all going ahead and I'm a happy Ozian!
If you book to fly to another country I think you absolutely have to do it in the knowledge that something could happen to the show, especially if you're booking for previews. It's a financial risk that you have to weigh up surely, and accept the consequence if something like this happens?!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2017 18:40:45 GMT
I think broadly speaking with any travel you appreciate there's a risk- look at Ryanair this week!
But I wouldn't personally book for very first previews for exactly these reasons- if anything is going to be cancelled (and I'm talking literally first 2-3 shows here not the scale of Hamilton granted) it's those. For that reason I'm not going to New York for the opening shows of Angels, it's not a big risk but it's a risk. And if I'm that passionate about seeing something I'm hedging my bets. But still I could fly there, and the whole theatre could happen to flood, or there's a power cut, or the Cats cast re-invade the theatre...anything. It is, as we're saying all a bit of a gamble.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2017 18:43:46 GMT
If there was a reasonable chance the theatre wouldn't be ready then it could have been factored in to the original booking process or at the very least mentioned? And then you could place whatever blame you want on those still willing to take the risk. The booking period was so strict and robust on their end that if anything it suggested a higher likelihood that everything would go to plan. Surely it doesn't take an awful lot of common sense to realise that there is a chance that a major full-scale building refurbishment is going to run over its schedule? People shouldn't need to be told to factor in the risk that an early show in any run might be cancelled, and indeed they are warned by the very fact the show is sold as a preview rather than for a show that has properly opened!
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6,986 posts
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Post by Jon on Sept 19, 2017 18:44:09 GMT
I think broadly speaking with any travel you appreciate there's a risk- look at Ryanair this week! But I wouldn't personally book for very first previews for exactly these reasons- if anything is going to be cancelled (and I'm talking literally first 2-3 shows here not the scale of Hamilton granted) it's those. For that reason I'm not going to New York for the opening shows of Angels, it's not a big risk but it's a risk. And if I'm that passionate about seeing something I'm hedging my bets. But still I could fly there, and the whole theatre could happen to flood, or there's a power cut, or the Cats cast re-invade the theatre...anything. It is, as we're saying all a bit of a gamble. I have had first previews cancelled and you know, I don't expect anything other than a refund or my tickets rebooked for another day. Asking for another freebie is taking the biscuit!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2017 18:46:47 GMT
I think broadly speaking with any travel you appreciate there's a risk- look at Ryanair this week! But I wouldn't personally book for very first previews for exactly these reasons- if anything is going to be cancelled (and I'm talking literally first 2-3 shows here not the scale of Hamilton granted) it's those. For that reason I'm not going to New York for the opening shows of Angels, it's not a big risk but it's a risk. And if I'm that passionate about seeing something I'm hedging my bets. But still I could fly there, and the whole theatre could happen to flood, or there's a power cut, or the Cats cast re-invade the theatre...anything. It is, as we're saying all a bit of a gamble. I have had first previews cancelled and you know, I don't expect anything other than a refund or my tickets rebooked for another day. Asking for another freebie is taking the biscuit! Can I ask for a biscuit? that seems fair. (I tried to come up with a biscuit example but everything I came up with was either rude or had the potential to be taken as 'racist' so I'm going with rude: I like ginger nuts)
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2017 19:05:42 GMT
^True, with the caveat that those who know little of theatre ways wouldn't really know that. I would say that can be the case, but the people who booked the first few weeks of Hamilton had pre registered and then sat there queuing on the first day on sale to be able to get those seats. I think they know of theatre ways. If people were just booking early fot Bragging rights, then they'll still get them if all their 3 choices were early in the run.
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