2,409 posts
Member is Online
|
Post by theatreian on Sept 11, 2022 13:44:53 GMT
Attended a beautiful service at Malvern Priory this morning and sung the National Anthem the first time with King. Off to see 2 local proclamations soon, 3pm and 4pm, the county council then the local Mayor. Historic times!
|
|
|
Post by sfsusan on Sept 11, 2022 13:55:27 GMT
what I don't understand is that Islington's proclamation was at 11am this morning, I'd have thought the news would have reached there from St James's Palace more quickly given it's only 4 miles away... The Tower of London's proclamation was at noon today, which seemed odd for the same reason.* But the ceremony was quite nice, with very few people turning up specifically for it. The Resident Governor of the Tower marched out with an escort of Yeoman Warders, there was a trumpet fanfare, then the governor read out an explanation of the proclamation, then the official proclamation. There was a command (I think of "God Save the King") followed by all the Beefeaters shouting "Amen!" loudly and in unison. They then repeated this at the four corners of the Tower property. I then decided to push my luck and head to Buckingham Palace. The line to get up to it was 90 minutes long, wending through the park. This was at 1:30 pm or so. A policewoman told me it had been like that all day, much busier than previous days. *There was a fair amount of confusion around the proper date and time. The Independent yesterday said it would be yesterday at 12 noon. Someone at the Tower yesterday told me it would be today at 12 noon. Today, the first volunteer I asked said today at 11:30 am. Then 11:45. Then 12:15, which is about when it started.
|
|
2,760 posts
|
Post by n1david on Sept 11, 2022 14:37:46 GMT
Attended a beautiful service at Malvern Priory this morning and sung the National Anthem the first time with King. Off to see 2 local proclamations soon, 3pm and 4pm, the county council then the local Mayor. Historic times! I hope they went better than the local one here in Abergavenny, where the Mayor concluded the proclamation with a rousing "God Save the Queen!" Oops...
|
|
2,409 posts
Member is Online
|
Post by theatreian on Sept 11, 2022 16:06:05 GMT
I hope they went better than the local one here in Abergavenny, where the Mayor concluded the proclamation with a rousing "God Save the Queen!" Oops... Yes it went very well. 3 times singing the National Anthem...no mistakes!
|
|
914 posts
|
Post by karloscar on Sept 11, 2022 18:11:24 GMT
Mike Bartlett was spot on about Charlie immediately getting involved in politics, what with him allowing Truss to partner him on a tour of the UK. No separation of state and government then, and not as set out in London Bridge apparently. Turns out it was just No10 trying to gatecrash. She won't be accompanying him anywhere, just attending memorial services in Edinburgh,Belfast and Cardiff.
|
|
217 posts
|
Post by Rozzi Rainbow on Sept 11, 2022 19:36:36 GMT
Attended a beautiful service at Malvern Priory this morning and sung the National Anthem the first time with King. Off to see 2 local proclamations soon, 3pm and 4pm, the county council then the local Mayor. Historic times! I hope they went better than the local one here in Abergavenny, where the Mayor concluded the proclamation with a rousing "God Save the Queen!" Oops... That happened at ours also! He was very flustered though as his mike wouldn't work and so he had to shout all the way through - we could hardly hear him. And we didn't even sing the National Anthem.
|
|
19,778 posts
|
Post by BurlyBeaR on Sept 11, 2022 19:45:10 GMT
Fantastic to hear of all of these ancient ceremonies going on around the country.
|
|
2,409 posts
Member is Online
|
Post by theatreian on Sept 11, 2022 21:16:45 GMT
Fantastic to hear of all of these ancient ceremonies going on around the country. Yes it was a real moment of history , in this social media instant news it was good to step back to past times.
|
|
|
Post by jojo on Sept 12, 2022 15:52:59 GMT
On one hand these old ceremonies are archaic and ridiculous, but they are also fascinating. I love history, and between the silly outfits, these events get you thinking about how important news was communicated authoritatively around the country in the days before newspapers, never mind the internet. And yes, it is ceremonial, but it gets you thinking about the challenges and value of the peaceful transfer of power.
The older I get the less cynical I become to these ceremonies and appreciate their practical value. I was raised Protestant and had a natural scepticism to all of the Catholic ceremony, and while I maintain that some aspects were money making schemes for the clergy, certain rituals, especially relating to the death of loved ones, are valuable contributions to the grieving process.
|
|
|
Post by sph on Sept 12, 2022 16:24:47 GMT
Ceremonies and rituals have indeed been a part of human life since the beginning of time. They are still important to many, but I think we must also recognise in this day and age that they are a luxury, not a necessity. For example, if the King (or formerly, Queen) did not "officially" open Parliament each year, Parliament would not cease to exist. The country would still have to be run and people would have to continue in their jobs. Parliament would still open, one way or another.
I'm not saying we should necessarily get rid of such traditions, but we should recognise them as representing a lifestyle that is no longer lived. It is all a living museum piece, not a piece of the present day. But on the other hand, British history is very interesting and museums (whether living or not) are a fascinating way to look back.
|
|
|
Post by jojo on Sept 12, 2022 17:03:57 GMT
That's fair sph. And whilst some of these traditions were overly convoluted to underline the process and people wore what are now silly outfits so make it easier to know who they were and what role they played, or because these are legal issues and legal issues are full of pedantic, archaic language, there's also an element of 'they didn't have tv in those days' about it.
It would be good to review these ceremonies and streamline them a bit, and review whether they could be briefer. Could they keep the general vibe with fewer people. I'm not suggesting utilitarian boiler suits, but you don't necessarily need that much fur, frills and stockings to let people know it's a special occasion.
|
|
914 posts
|
Post by karloscar on Sept 12, 2022 17:55:00 GMT
King Charles has had three costume changes today so far, and he'll probably have to get back in uniform this evening again. Good business for dry cleaners.
|
|
|
Post by sfsusan on Sept 12, 2022 21:13:38 GMT
and people wore what are now silly outfits so make it easier to know who they were and what role they played When I saw the play 'King Charles III' in the US and Charles entered Parliament in full uniform, the US audience giggled. You'd think that would be familiar enough from photos/tv that they wouldn't think it was meant to look ridiculous, but apparently they did. (And the play wasn't exactly a laugh riot, so it's not like we'd been groomed for punchlines.)
|
|
4,156 posts
|
Post by kathryn on Sept 14, 2022 5:23:59 GMT
There’s tradition and tradition, though. Much of the spectacle of monarchy are traditions going back centuries. However, Meghan has been widely slammed for not following “traditions” invented by Diana which are at most 40 years old. A ‘tradition’ = anything done twice. A great many traditions are petty and trivial - there’s no good reason to do the traditional thing, beyond it having been done that way before. It doesn’t matter in the vast majority of cases, of course, but it does when people continue traditions that are harmful. Granting a tradition more importance than the well-being of actual human beings is inherently harmful.
|
|
4,156 posts
|
Post by kathryn on Sept 14, 2022 5:27:25 GMT
Some people just Do Not Like change of any form. They regard the Royal Family and its pettiest, most inconsequential traditions, customs and ceremonies as signs of stability and continuity, and they have some kind of weird psychological need for that. There's nothing even slightly weird about wanting stability and continuity. There are literally hundreds of psychological studies which say that those are beneficial human needs and none saying the opposite. Making what someone totally unrelated to you who you have never met decides to do for their summer holiday one of your barometers of stability is deeply weird.
|
|
1,863 posts
|
Post by NeilVHughes on Sept 14, 2022 6:34:33 GMT
Stability is not fundamentally personal, we expect things to change in our relationships but expect the foundations of our lives to remain stable.
We know we could come home but be surprised by our nearest and dearest but do expect the house to be still there.
The Royal Family is deeply engrained in the British psyche, it is a constant, further amplified by the longevity of the Queen’s reign, if we were to ask a 100 people what fundamentally defined being British the Royal Family would be high on the list and this has been defined by the Queen for most people.
I was surprised by the immediate impact, not for my love of the monarchy but the change this will entail, we are beginning to see its impact on the Commonwealth, as the Queen’s reign was the end of Empire, Charles’ reign will likely become the end of the Commonwealth.
As Brexit was fundamentally a reaction to the diminishing influence of Britain this will be a further shock as we have to settle into being the Country we are, not the Country we were, whilst the Queen was alive we had a link with our past and future and we now only have the future.
Personally is the death of the Queen going to impact my immediate stability, no, is the death of the Queen going to impact the stability of this island we live on this is unequivocally yes, it may be benign but this is not the same Britain as a week ago.
|
|
1,482 posts
|
Post by mkb on Sept 14, 2022 7:28:10 GMT
Some people just Do Not Like change of any form. They regard the Royal Family and its pettiest, most inconsequential traditions, customs and ceremonies as signs of stability and continuity, and they have some kind of weird psychological need for that. There's nothing even slightly weird about wanting stability and continuity. There are literally hundreds of psychological studies which say that those are beneficial human needs and none saying the opposite. The "stability and continuity" of positive aspects of life is beneficial psychologically, but continuity of negative aspects is not. Whether a tradition should be continued should be judged on its merits, not simply by the fact that it has been going on for some time.
|
|
914 posts
|
Post by karloscar on Sept 14, 2022 8:00:50 GMT
Not a lot of stability at Clarence House. Up to 100 staff were told they might be made redundant on Monday while the King was at the memorial service in Edinburgh. So much for caring sharing Royals!
|
|
|
Post by oxfordsimon on Sept 14, 2022 8:30:44 GMT
Given that countries are still joining the Commonwealth, I see no reason for it to come to an end imminently. Countries might move away from having a monarch, but there are economic and cultural benefits that are worth preserving or acquiring.
|
|
|
Post by oxfordsimon on Sept 14, 2022 8:36:09 GMT
And as for the possibility of redundancies, the timing is a little insensitive but that sort of change is inevitable.
Clarence House will no longer be a site of major royal activity. The new Prince of Wales will be based in Windsor not London and so the new team will be based there.
And with the Royal Household seeking a more streamlined approach, not running duplicate establishments for the King is the right move.
Some of the Clarence House staff may move with Charles, some may transfer to Windsor.
At least this isn't like some ancient dynasties rulers where close servants were killed to help serve the dead ruler in the afterlife.
|
|
|
Post by vickyg on Sept 14, 2022 8:41:23 GMT
Not a lot of stability at Clarence House. Up to 100 staff were told they might be made redundant on Monday while the King was at the memorial service in Edinburgh. So much for caring sharing Royals! I'm surprised this is getting any air time whatsoever. Clarence House is no more. Why would they continue to employ hundreds of staff when two sprightly 70 somethings will need far less support than one/two people in their mid and late 90s. Surely this would have been well understood by the staff involved.
|
|
|
Post by jojo on Sept 14, 2022 10:33:29 GMT
It seems employers have a legal obligation to tell staff of the possibility of redundancy as soon as they become aware of this. This will be one of those damned if they do and damned if they don't situations, although safe to say that most staff would have been aware that changes were inevitable. It's expected that many staff will be redeployed, but we have one less senior royal and one less royal household to manage. Hopefully some will be ready to move on or retire, and perhaps some of what were in theory the Queen's staff were already working with Charles as he took over more of her duties, so this was already a work in progress.
The question of timing is an interesting one and people will have different views. Is it better to have maximum possible notice so you can plan your life, or is it better to let people stay happily ignorant for as long as possible? This happens whenever a large company announces possible or actual redundancies before Christmas. Yes, it might 'ruin' Christmas if you know you are about to lose your job, but is that really worse than letting people spend more than they should or need to in that period?
There's a case to be said that they didn't need to say it out loud just yet as most staff would have realised that change was afoot and that would include some redundancies, but you can be sure it would be held against them at some point.
People say they like the idea of a slimmed down royal family and want them to cut costs. What did they think would happen?
I do feel sorry for those involved. Everything must be a big shock for them, and I don't blame them if they are upset, but the media commentators misreporting an organisation correctly following employment law to generate outrage and clicks are not the good guys here.
|
|
7,179 posts
|
Post by Jon on Sept 14, 2022 12:58:33 GMT
TBH The staff must have known that it was always going to happen sometime given the Queen was in poor health but also in her 90s.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2022 23:39:30 GMT
King Charles and his pen preferences has me fixed on my own writing instruments this week.
|
|
4,984 posts
Member is Online
|
Post by Someone in a tree on Sept 15, 2022 9:50:52 GMT
Meanwhile in Scandinavia a Royal does not look fusty and saves some money.
Happy Coat ❤️
://orderofsplendor.blogspot.com/2017/07/royal-outfit-of-day-queen-margrethe-and.html?m=1
|
|