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Post by talkingheads on Jan 16, 2022 12:54:54 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2022 13:52:47 GMT
Not unexpected. It's an article of Conservative faith that the BBC is run by "leftists", even though most of the world considers the BBC to be fairly neutral.
I find the current Conservative attitude to the BBC chillingly similar to the way the Republicans in the US are trying to discredit any news source that isn't on their side. Neutrality is left-wing bias; reporting everything the Party says as unquestioned truth is neutrality. It was, remember, the Conservatives who decided that the largely Conservative-supporting newspapers could be trusted to regulate themselves.
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Post by crowblack on Jan 16, 2022 14:21:47 GMT
To be honest, I think the BBC's lazy habit of having Jacob Rees-Mogg, Owen Jones, Nigel Farage, assorted former LM types and other self-promoting goons on speed-dial has helped create the current polarised climate.
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Post by talkingheads on Jan 16, 2022 14:53:09 GMT
Where else can you get radio, news, drama, documentary, arts, culture, comedy and more for thirteen quid a month? Anybody who's saying it's anything close to a Netflix subscription model is utterly deluded.
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Post by Jan on Jan 16, 2022 14:59:02 GMT
Where else can you get radio, news, drama, documentary, arts, culture, comedy and more for thirteen quid a month? So, they can just charge £13 a month on a subscription not-for-profit model then, what the problem ?
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Post by talkingheads on Jan 16, 2022 15:04:49 GMT
Where else can you get radio, news, drama, documentary, arts, culture, comedy and more for thirteen quid a month? So, they can just charge £13 a month on a subscription not-for-profit model then, what the problem ? It's not about whether you want to watch it. It's a public service. Impartial news. Radio. All of it. We all pay into the pot. It's fair and how it should be.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Jan 16, 2022 15:33:26 GMT
I am quite happy to see a reduction in local radio/TV. A lot of it is utterly inane and could easily be brought together into a smaller number of regions. The Internet has massively reduced the need for urgent updates at the time of bad weather/school closures etc.
But I don't see the need for local news broadcasts that are a throwback to a completely different generation.
The concept of a fee that is enforced via the criminal law is one that should cease to be. It is wrong that people are threatened with prison/fined for non payment of a fee to watch TV
Other countries operate without the BBC model of funding and still have a vibrant cultural offerings.
Change is inevitable
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Post by Jan on Jan 16, 2022 15:33:39 GMT
So, they can just charge £13 a month on a subscription not-for-profit model then, what the problem ? It's not about whether you want to watch it. It's a public service. Impartial news. Radio. All of it. We all pay into the pot. It's fair and how it should be. Channel 4 is a public-owned not-for-profit public service broadcaster and we don’t all “pay into the pot” for that. And what’s more Channel 4 don’t criminally prosecute and convict 100,000 people a year (75% of them women)for non-payment of a license fee.
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Post by og on Jan 16, 2022 15:43:27 GMT
*Points* “Look at that, over there!” Pure distraction of the highest order to take the heat off Boris.
Very mixed feelings on this one.
The BBC is an institution that has shaped global media and technology far beyond people truly realise. The titanic monster that it is, is so financially inefficient in its operations though it needs a catalyst like this to change how it operates from the very bottom up.
A subscription model was inevitable and the days of terrestrial may well be numbered as a result.
Unfortunately with a predicted loss as result of the fee freeze there willl be inevitable curs. The first thing to go will be the orchestras, then regional radio and programming, then probably BBC4.
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Post by og on Jan 16, 2022 15:45:45 GMT
It's not about whether you want to watch it. It's a public service. Impartial news. Radio. All of it. We all pay into the pot. It's fair and how it should be. Channel 4 is a public-owned not-for-profit public service broadcaster and we don’t all “pay into the pot” for that. And what’s more Channel 4 don’t criminally prosecute and convict 100,000 people a year (75% of them women)for non-payment of a license fee. But you do have to get bombarded by adverts as a consequence. All programming suffers as a result. Imagine the Proms with 15min ad breaks. Dire.
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Post by crowblack on Jan 16, 2022 16:02:41 GMT
Unfortunately with a predicted loss as result of the fee freeze there willl be inevitable curs. The first thing to go will be the orchestras, then regional radio and programming, then probably BBC4. I wish the current programmers at the BBC would read through a stack of 1980s Radio Times and see what they used to do with BBC2. It was superb, an arts and science education, Moviedrome, plays, etc.. Now it's split into two channels, neither as vibrant as BBC2 used to be. There's also a wealth of archive material they don't make available anywhere, even deleting it on youtube. They could monetise that - there is a demand for it - so why don't they? Talking Pictures TV are doing, with very limited financial means, a superb job with archive TV.
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Post by sph on Jan 16, 2022 16:24:38 GMT
I appreciate the "no adverts" side of watching the BBC, and I understand its importance as a public service, but a legally-enforced license fee to cover what amounts to a small fraction of the average person's TV viewing feels like a throwback to a long-gone era of entertainment. Even if you don't OWN a TV you get hounded by letters demanding payment until you contact them.
Some of its localisations are outdated too. The whole operation could certainly be streamlined to make the whole thing just... work more efficiently. I think a lot of the money that goes into it is dead on arrival because like all big companies so much gets funnelled into silly, unnecessary admin.
I once worked as an agency temp and was sent to the office of some big board of safety somewhere in London. I was covering the building's postman. His job was to, at certain points of the day, do a lap of the building and take envelopes/files from one floor to another. Just a handful, maybe once every hour or so. That was his entire job. In a private company, fine, but taxpayers are often paying into a system which has so many unnecessary quirks. It was the same for a guy I met once who worked for the NHS. He worked in a department where appliances were ordered. The rigmarole and red tape of ordering something as simple as a microwave for a staffroom was ridiculous!
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Post by Jan on Jan 16, 2022 16:26:53 GMT
Channel 4 is a public-owned not-for-profit public service broadcaster and we don’t all “pay into the pot” for that. And what’s more Channel 4 don’t criminally prosecute and convict 100,000 people a year (75% of them women)for non-payment of a license fee. But you do have to get bombarded by adverts as a consequence. All programming suffers as a result. Imagine the Proms with 15min ad breaks. Dire. That’s why a subscription service is a better idea. The license fee approach is simply unsustainable - for example with the arrival of Amazon, Disney etc. as producers of TV drama the costs of producing drama of that sort have increased by more than 10% in a short time, the BBC as it is currently organised are being priced out. One other point to consider, until very recently there were parts of the BBC, albeit small parts, that had 13 layers of management.
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Post by crowblack on Jan 16, 2022 16:36:46 GMT
*Points* “Look at that, over there!” Pure distraction of the highest order to take the heat off Boris. To be honest, I think the amount of airtime devoted to 'partygate' is itself a distraction.
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Post by talkingheads on Jan 16, 2022 16:39:01 GMT
This sums it up best:
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Post by scarpia on Jan 16, 2022 16:42:06 GMT
As we've known for some time now, the Conservative Party is not conservative any more. It's become overrun by an extreme fringe of the party, analogous to what has happened to the Republican Party. True conservatism would mean protecting great British (and Great British) institutions, whereas everything this government does diminishes this country's soft power and influence.
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Post by greenice on Jan 16, 2022 16:49:31 GMT
This will be a very popular move, definitely coming out now as a distraction but in fairness it was mentioned in the run up to the 2019 election. The licence fee is effectively an outdated, regressive tax with the heaviest burden on those with the lowest incomes, everyone being basically forced to pay (or face being harassed by licence enforcement and eventually criminal proceedings) regardless of whether they use any BBC services or not.
This was probably always coming but the BBC have accelerated it in my view with various issues, for example, off the top of my head: middle aged women being forced to retire whilst men go on for much longer, the general lack of political diversity in their recruitment (admitted at different times by Andrew Marr and John Humphrys), fake footage of the queen, the hounding of Cliff Richard and the big one, Savile.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2022 17:00:03 GMT
The licence fee is effectively an outdated, regressive tax with the heaviest burden on those with the lowest incomes, everyone being basically forced to pay (or face being harassed by licence enforcement and eventually criminal proceedings) regardless of whether they use any BBC services or not. I'd prefer it if the licence fee was rolled into other taxation instead of being separate, so it was income-adjusted in the same way as everything else. The current approach is certainly outdated, but that doesn't mean the BBC needs to become yet another purely commercial operation fighting for every penny.
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Post by og on Jan 16, 2022 17:13:38 GMT
Unfortunately with a predicted loss as result of the fee freeze there willl be inevitable curs. The first thing to go will be the orchestras, then regional radio and programming, then probably BBC4. I wish the current programmers at the BBC would read through a stack of 1980s Radio Times and see what they used to do with BBC2. It was superb, an arts and science education, Moviedrome, plays, etc.. Now it's split into two channels, neither as vibrant as BBC2 used to be. There's also a wealth of archive material they don't make available anywhere, even deleting it on youtube. They could monetise that - there is a demand for it - so why don't they? Talking Pictures TV are doing, with very limited financial means, a superb job with archive TV. Absolutely agree. Two has lost is identity and really needs some heads bashing together to figure out a way forward. Would like to say though that the BBC Archive (which extends way beyond programmes transmitted) is a huge source of income (albeit and expense) but their archives are available for other broadcasters/media/etc digging via the appropriate channels for licensing/rights payments, so it is already monetised quite effectively. Just because it’s not being broadcast on one/two/four doesn’t mean it’s not being used. Take a look at the credits for pretty much any documentary going and you’ll likely see a credit for ‘BBC Archive’. Also I think BritBox has also been a method for getting more of the archived programme available. YouTube is a a slightly more contentious area given the ability to easily rip content, so I get why a lot of content doesn’t last there.
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Post by olliebean on Jan 16, 2022 17:29:42 GMT
It's not about whether you want to watch it. It's a public service. Impartial news. Radio. All of it. We all pay into the pot. It's fair and how it should be. Channel 4 is a public-owned not-for-profit public service broadcaster and we don’t all “pay into the pot” for that. And what’s more Channel 4 don’t criminally prosecute and convict 100,000 people a year (75% of them women)for non-payment of a license fee. Until they get around to selling that off (which is also on the cards).
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Post by og on Jan 16, 2022 17:41:33 GMT
It's not about whether you want to watch it. It's a public service. Impartial news. Radio. All of it. We all pay into the pot. It's fair and how it should be. Channel 4 is a public-owned not-for-profit public service broadcaster and we don’t all “pay into the pot” for that. And what’s more Channel 4 don’t criminally prosecute and convict 100,000 people a year (75% of them women)for non-payment of a license fee. Slight correction here. The license fee covers the infrastructure and transmission of Freeview as well as running the BBC. A Television License is not an exclusively BBC fund. By paying for a TV License you are paying for the ability to watch Channel 4, along with all of the other channels available as well as the right to listen to any and all of the Radio stations available throughout the country.
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Post by lynette on Jan 16, 2022 18:01:50 GMT
Radio completely separate, no fee required.
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Post by fossil on Jan 16, 2022 18:08:26 GMT
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Post by lynette on Jan 16, 2022 18:12:34 GMT
It is always disappointing when the BBC fails to acquire the big sporting events as it never has enough dosh for them. A separate sports channel might address that problem with a subscription to it which could be flexible and which you could pop into and out of, so when the big ones are up, you join and pay enhanced fee then leave if you want to; probably a lot of people would join up and stay joined up.
Earlier in the thread there is a pic of all the stuff contained in the licence fee. But I do not want all of that. Most people don't want all of it. BBC3? No thanks, CBeebies, nope not now thanks. I don’t expect to pay for the lobster on the menu just because the restaurant is offering it when I want to eat the salad.
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Post by talkingheads on Jan 16, 2022 18:17:06 GMT
It is always disappointing when the BBC fails to acquire the big sporting events as it never has enough dosh for them. A separate sports channel might address that problem with a subscription to it which could be flexible and which you could pop into and out of, so when the big ones are up, you join and pay enhanced fee then leave if you want to; probably a lot of people would join up and stay joined up. Earlier in the thread there is a pic of all the stuff contained in the licence fee. But I do not want all of that. Most people don't want all of it. BBC3? No thanks, CBeebies, nope not now thanks. And the radio is not part of it anyway. You can have a radio blasting out any BBC station with no licence required. I don’t expect to pay for the lobster on the menu just because the restaurant is offering it when I want to eat the salad. But isn't that exactly the argument for why you pay your licence in the first place? You like watching some things. Your licence pays for that. Others educated their kids via Cbeebies. Licence covers that. Point is, we all pay in and we all get something back. Do you insist on driving on every patch of road in Britain because your tax helped pay for it? No, you use a small slice of it and you pay a small slice of money for it.
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