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Post by stagebyte on May 30, 2022 16:09:28 GMT
Attacking a whole group of people based on the opinion of one critic doesn't seem like the smartest thing to do. I'm all for diversity in casting, I'm paying good money to see a show I want to see the most talented person in that role. I want the producers to find them whoever they are. There are lots of super talented people from lots of different minorities working in the west end at the moment, I would say the theatre industry is currently doing a pretty good job on this. There does seem to be a problem with cast spouting off on social media. Where I work we don't make any personal social media posts related to our employment, it all goes through official channels. I think some people need to remember they are employed to do a job, they were employed based on their talent and experience and that job is to entertain. They are answerable to their employers and who are then answerable to paying customers. The producers are trying to sell as many tickets as possible for as much money as possible. It's not the casts show, they don't own it, they haven't financed it. If you pay the money you can watch the show. It's a business, it discriminates on wealth. Spot on. *Waits for the regular poster who says that show business isn’t like ‘working in an office in Wolverhampton’ so professionally can’t be held to the same standards. Like some of the Cinderella cast Isaac does seem to confuse having a valid voice with going too far in terms of alienating the public previously on their side. Will actively avoid any show with them in along with Rodney. I’m sure they won’t care. Anyone over the age of 30 is irrelevant and old. Let’s see how many large theatres they fill without the grey pound. |
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Post by inthenose on May 30, 2022 16:11:52 GMT
Very sad to see a young person so full of bitterness, prejudice and hate. Astonished they're still in a job. Absolutely vile behaviour.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2022 16:22:44 GMT
Very sad to see a young person so full of bitterness, prejudice and hate. Astonished they're still in a job. Absolutely vile behaviour. You think Isaac is full of bitterness, prejudice and hate? Have you ever seen what trans and non-binary folk go through every day? How people treat them? Yes, they're probably bitter because of that. And yes, they have some ageism issues probably because the majority of prejudice they experience comes from that group. But please - saying that old, cis, white people tend to be close-minded is not the level of hate (not even close) that trans and enby people experience regularly. Doesn't make the comments right, but not let's act like the two are even remotely similar. |
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Post by lolalou on May 30, 2022 16:34:22 GMT
Very sad to see a young person so full of bitterness, prejudice and hate. Astonished they're still in a job. Absolutely vile behaviour. You think Isaac is full of bitterness, prejudice and hate? Have you ever seen what trans and non-binary folk go through every day? How people treat them? Yes, they're probably bitter because of that. And yes, they have some ageism issues probably because the majority of prejudice they experience comes from that group. But please - saying that old, cis, white people tend to be close-minded is not the level of hate (not even close) that trans and enby people experience regularly. Doesn't make his comments right, but not let's act like the two are even remotely similar. While it must be awful what non binary and trans folk experience. Laying their treatment at the door at a group of people is another sweeping statement. Have you ever worked in a secondary school? The prejudice is as alive and kicking there as in any old folks home. I think prejudice is a learned behaviour and we have to look at environment and influence rather than a birthday. |
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Post by southstreet on May 30, 2022 16:38:11 GMT
Very sad to see a young person so full of bitterness, prejudice and hate. Astonished they're still in a job. Absolutely vile behaviour. I see a young person that probably is bitter, that bit I agree with. But I don't think they are full of prejudice and hate but more full of hurt and therefore lashing out, so I can understand where the bitterness is coming from. And I definitely can see what they are trying to say and agree that it's important that under-represented people in society get to see themselves on stage. Not approving of the way they handled the situation and the way they phrased things, but agree with the overall intended message, however clumsily and incorrectly it was delivered. |
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2022 16:54:07 GMT
They've realised a trailer and...er...it doesn't look great. The vocal sounds a bit dodgy too
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Post by Jon on May 30, 2022 17:02:08 GMT
Have to agree some of the costume choices are dire! I think Lucy Moss needs someone to act as a mentor because I have a feeling critics and others won't be so kind when she's no longer the new hot thing on the block.
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Post by pianowithsam on May 30, 2022 17:24:15 GMT
Everything about that trailer was ghastly.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2022 17:26:57 GMT
Just reading these posts I think as always OxfordSimon makes an excellent point there are more reviewers out there and would a typical Times reader be interested in seeing Legally Blonde. Also if a reviewer is well outside the age deomographic of the show how can they review it objectively. It is like asking a 70 year old to review a Harry Styles concert or a 16 year old to review Cliff Richard.
As regards Isaac's comment sure he was having a pop and the joke about going to Turkey for surgery did make me smile but if he has done something like this he cannot start complaining if people make comments about his pronouns to wind him up. But as he lists so many I don't think it would bother him.
Will certain shows only start inviting favoured critics I wonder.
Ageism can go both ways some people may use age as an excuse to discribe Isaac in less pleasant terms or the young think the old are out of touch or older people see the young as a lot of touchy snowflakes.
I haven't seen this production as I don't live near London so I am trying to stay objectively neutral.
Back to OxfordSimon's point has anyone on here ever tried to set themselves up as a theatre blogger - you'd get some great free shows out of it. I've done the odd concert review locally and bagged some nice complimentary spots.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2022 17:58:27 GMT
You think Isaac is full of bitterness, prejudice and hate? Have you ever seen what trans and non-binary folk go through every day? How people treat them? Yes, they're probably bitter because of that. And yes, they have some ageism issues probably because the majority of prejudice they experience comes from that group. But please - saying that old, cis, white people tend to be close-minded is not the level of hate (not even close) that trans and enby people experience regularly. Doesn't make his comments right, but not let's act like the two are even remotely similar. While it must be awful what non binary and trans folk experience. Laying their treatment at the door at a group of people is another sweeping statement. Have you ever worked in a secondary school? The prejudice is as alive and kicking there as in any old folks home. I think prejudice is a learned behaviour and we have to look at environment and influence rather than a birthday. I think acknowledging the fact that the older generation has a) caused a lot of problems for the younger generation and b) a great deal of the older generation have deep prejudices against queer people. Do I think that Isaac hates all old folks and would hurt them in a home? No. I think Isaac probably got a bit triggered by some of the things Quentin said, and lashed out. Again - doesn't excuse anything - but I don't think criticizing an older man for his tired and prejudiced views is the same as trying to stand in the way of others achieving equality, and representation. Again, not excusing it, I just think that Isaac hasn't shown themselves to be "hateful" against an entire generation for a snide remark or two in anger and frustration. Additionally, I've been a live-in caregiver and worked in nursing homes for two decades. I absolutely know that there is a great deal of discrimination and many folks are not well looked after. I just don't think Isaac is quite at THAT point with their remarks. And sorry if my points are a little muddled. I've been fighting a bit of a headache all day and feel like I'm a little "off". |
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Post by mrnutz on May 30, 2022 18:30:32 GMT
They've realised a trailer and...er...it doesn't look great. The vocal sounds a bit dodgy too This sounds like a bootleg recording. |
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Post by Seriously on May 30, 2022 18:37:56 GMT
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Post by Dawnstar on May 30, 2022 18:45:28 GMT
The original tweet has been removed I see... Someone will be on the naughty step tonight It now reads:
Is being so specific about only wanting audience members who have certain characteristics really a good idea for someone working in show business? You'd think most producers just want anyone who's prepared to pay for a ticket. If this is what most young musical theatre performers feel about potential audience members then I feel like giving up on going to musicals as it feels like I'll no longer be welcome in the audience, given I'm white, straight & having recently turned 37 probably no longer considered young.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2022 18:53:26 GMT
Especially considering the Open airs usual audience. Basically telling 80% of the paying audience we don't care and you're not important.
Honestly do these younger performers have no social skills/common politeness. First cinderella and now legally blonde. I just don't understand why people are saying some things so publicly. If anything generations who have grown up with social media should be more savvy
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Post by Jon on May 30, 2022 18:58:17 GMT
Is being so specific about only wanting audience members who have certain characteristics really a good idea for someone working in show business? You'd think most producers just want anyone who's prepared to pay for a ticket. If this is what most young musical theatre performers feel about potential audience members then I feel like giving up on going to musicals as it feels like I'll no longer be welcome in the audience, given I'm white, straight & having recently turned 37 probably no longer considered young. Not all musicals exclude the older generation so you shouldn't give up on them or tar them with the same brush. |
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2022 19:00:16 GMT
I'm in my early 50's white and male. I don't say I'm in touch with every correct phrase but I try to make sure I try to understand things from other points of view and where they are coming from.
I've agree Isaac was likely riled by the review and shot something back. If he'd just made a comment about Turkey then he'd have known what it meant but others may not have done. Is baldness a protected characteristic now and Quentin is only receeding at nearing 60. But what if a casting director who is folically challenged has read that tweet do they consider Isaac when he goes for future roles.
A lot of this comes from people living on Social Media that comment made backstage or to his friends people laugh at on social media it becomes live. How many people will fall from grace in coming years from stuff they tweeted when younger I wonder?
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2022 19:02:39 GMT
I'm in my early 50's white and male. I don't say I'm in touch with every correct phrase but I try to make sure I try to understand things from other points of view and where they are coming from. I've agree Isaac was likely riled by the review and shot something back. If he'd just made a comment about Turkey then he'd have known what it meant but others may not have done. Is baldness a protected characteristic now and Quentin is only receeding at nearing 60. But what if a casting director who is folically challenged has read that tweet do they consider Isaac when he goes for future roles. A lot of this comes from people living on Social Media that comment made backstage or to his friends people laugh at on social media it becomes live. How many people will fall from grace in coming years from stuff they tweeted when younger I wonder? I can't help but smile at the thought that so many of these people who are outraged and want people fired over a tweet 10 years ago will likely have the same thing happen to them in 10 years or so. |
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Post by stagebyte on May 30, 2022 19:07:15 GMT
Is being so specific about only wanting audience members who have certain characteristics really a good idea for someone working in show business? You'd think most producers just want anyone who's prepared to pay for a ticket. If this is what most young musical theatre performers feel about potential audience members then I feel like giving up on going to musicals as it feels like I'll no longer be welcome in the audience, given I'm white, straight & having recently turned 37 probably no longer considered young. Not all musicals exclude the older generation so you shouldn't give up on them or tar them with the same brush. NO musical should exclude the older generation. Just as classics are freely available to younger. Deciding who can and can’t watch things, read things, wear things based on age or any other identifier is going down a very dangerous path. |
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Post by Dawnstar on May 30, 2022 19:35:51 GMT
Is being so specific about only wanting audience members who have certain characteristics really a good idea for someone working in show business? You'd think most producers just want anyone who's prepared to pay for a ticket. If this is what most young musical theatre performers feel about potential audience members then I feel like giving up on going to musicals as it feels like I'll no longer be welcome in the audience, given I'm white, straight & having recently turned 37 probably no longer considered young. Not all musicals exclude the older generation so you shouldn't give up on them or tar them with the same brush. I hope you're not meaning to imply that it's fine if some musicals do exclude older people. I was in any case talking about some musical theatre performers sounding as though they don't want some groups of audience members, rather than musicals themselves. |
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Post by inthenose on May 30, 2022 19:47:05 GMT
Especially considering the Open airs usual audience. Basically telling 80% of the paying audience we don't care and you're not important. Honestly do these younger performers have no social skills/common politeness. First cinderella and now legally blonde. I just don't understand why people are saying some things so publicly. If anything generations who have grown up with social media should be more savvy Isaac's behaviour has been deeply embarrassing for the show and harmful to their career. Pathetic, shocking hate speech |
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Post by Jon on May 30, 2022 19:57:52 GMT
Not all musicals exclude the older generation so you shouldn't give up on them or tar them with the same brush. NO musical should exclude the older generation. Just as classics are freely available to younger. Deciding who can and can’t watch things, read things, wear things based on age or any other identifier is going down a very dangerous path. But many shows don't appeal to the older generation or even the younger generation. Look at the Book of Mormon for example, I love the show but it doesn't appeal to everyone because of the humour. |
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Post by pb on May 30, 2022 19:58:37 GMT
Not all musicals exclude the older generation so you shouldn't give up on them or tar them with the same brush. NO musical should exclude the older generation. Just as classics are freely available to younger. Deciding who can and can’t watch things, read things, wear things based on age or any other identifier is going down a very dangerous path. Sometime I do wonder how some people work in an industry yet don't understand the economics of it. A basic understanding of the costs involved in putting on a show and how you extract money from different demographics would help a little. The problem of thinking we are only doing this show for XY or Z, is that if they can't financially sustain it then the show will fail. If someone only ever buys cheap rush tickets they need to realise that they are only seeing that show because other people have paid £90 for a ticket. The older cash rich and family audience are the financial backbone of a lot of these shows. The irony with legally blonde is that when I went most of the audience were middle aged. |
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2022 20:02:08 GMT
The show looks pretty poor anyway, but the attitude surrounding the production and the theatre just leaves a bit of a nasty taste and probably won't bother.
This could have been such a positive and inclusive production to celebrate diversity and bring people together. But instead it just seems to be concept over substance using some outdated stereotypes, poor design, some weak casting decisions and attitudes to further division.
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Post by Jon on May 30, 2022 20:04:21 GMT
Sometime I do wonder how some people work in an industry yet don't understand the economics of it. A basic understanding of the costs involved in putting on a show and how you extract money from different demographics would help a little. The problem of thinking we are only doing this show for XY or Z, is that if they can't financially sustain it then the show will fail. If someone only ever buys cheap rush tickets they need to realise that they are only seeing that show because other people have paid £90 for a ticket. The older cash rich and family audience are the financial backbone of a lot of these shows. The irony with legally blonde is that when I went most of the audience were middle aged. I imagine a lot of people don't understand the economics of the business they're in. |
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Post by stagebyte on May 30, 2022 20:27:50 GMT
NO musical should exclude the older generation. Just as classics are freely available to younger. Deciding who can and can’t watch things, read things, wear things based on age or any other identifier is going down a very dangerous path. But many shows don't appeal to the older generation or even the younger generation. Look at the Book of Mormon for example, I love the show but it doesn't appeal to everyone because of the humour. That’s different to what you said previously. Of course not every show will appeal to everyone. FYI my mum’s current favourite show is Hamilton (she’s 74)If what you’re implying is correct, on paper she should hate everything about it. In Isaac’s eyes my demographic is irrelevant. Should that have excluded me from enjoying Six, Heathers, Be More Chill etc and a show that speaks to today’s young and they’ve have claimed as their own Rent? A show he was in and was written before he was born? It’s easy to forget that without the old white folks paying premium prices there would be no rush tickets or student bargains. Don’t bite the hand that feeds you Isaac. You’ve just started out. |
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