19,773 posts
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Sept 17, 2022 17:14:12 GMT
Maybe he thinks people will think “well if I can’t see POTO I’ll go see Cinderella instead”.
They won’t.
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Post by jacob on Sept 17, 2022 17:35:37 GMT
is it not a huge red flag to scare audiences into flocking to Phantom as it’s going to ‘close’, to then just start the budget version elsewhere?? seems off to me
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Post by SuttonPeron on Sept 17, 2022 20:24:59 GMT
If the show is losing $1 million a month at the Majestic, closing the original production and reopening in a smaller theatre, with the cheaper-to-run London production, seems perfectly sensible. Of course, that's speculation that it will reopen in another theatre, but I suspect demand for the show will be huge over the next five months, and that's the route they'll go down. But whatever spin they put on it, I think the bottom line is the original version of Phantom is unsustainable in the current climate. In an article from a couple of years ago, it said it cost around 650k per week to run the show. It must have increased to 800k due to inflation, but its current average weekly gross is around 775k. They may be losing money, but certainly not 1 million a month. That was just reported in the original leak article and not confirmed by RUG, Schubert or Cameron.
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Post by bobbievanhusen on Sept 17, 2022 20:47:29 GMT
The show has been losing money since it reopened. You can see by how much because they release Broadway figures weekly. It's certainly not a cash cow anymore. It would cost millions to move to a different theatre with a new set etc and all the related costs of that, at a time when living costs are skyrocketing and people having to cut down on luxuries such as seeing a Broadway show. There are currently about 20 empty Broadway theatres. It seems the Phans couldn't even save the OG production let alone the London version. Bottom line, people just aren't going to see it anymore. Its been around for 35 years and has employed hundreds of thousands of people (those few that have been there since day 1 have had 35 years of continuous job security and been given 5 months notice, so its hard to feel sorry for them)
It probably will come back to Broadway, but i imagine it will be the smaller production as part of a US tour
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Post by SuttonPeron on Sept 17, 2022 22:14:25 GMT
The show has been losing money since it reopened. You can see by how much because they release Broadway figures weekly. It's certainly not a cash cow anymore. It would cost millions to move to a different theatre with a new set etc and all the related costs of that, at a time when living costs are skyrocketing and people having to cut down on luxuries such as seeing a Broadway show. There are currently about 20 empty Broadway theatres. It seems the Phans couldn't even save the OG production let alone the London version. Bottom line, people just aren't going to see it anymore. Its been around for 35 years and has employed hundreds of thousands of people (those few that have been there since day 1 have had 35 years of continuous job security and been given 5 months notice, so its hard to feel sorry for them) It probably will come back to Broadway, but i imagine it will be the smaller production as part of a US tour Those few? Half the musicians and most of the crew and music department have been there since day one! And most of the people in the ensemble have been involved with the show for a very long time. And of course I feel sorry for them! It´s hard enough to get a new job when you´re older, especially in an industry as competitive as showbusiness. It seems like the Phans care about the people that put their 200% every night in showing the world what musical theatre can be like, and will probably be replaced with machines and cheap labor, so a producer can get even more money. This isn´t the first, nor the second but the third time Cameron has done this.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2022 22:40:07 GMT
If the show is losing $1 million a month at the Majestic, closing the original production and reopening in a smaller theatre, with the cheaper-to-run London production, seems perfectly sensible. Of course, that's speculation that it will reopen in another theatre, but I suspect demand for the show will be huge over the next five months, and that's the route they'll go down. But whatever spin they put on it, I think the bottom line is the original version of Phantom is unsustainable in the current climate. In an article from a couple of years ago, it said it cost around 650k per week to run the show. It must have increased to 800k due to inflation, but its current average weekly gross is around 775k. They may be losing money, but certainly not 1 million a month. That was just reported in the original leak article and not confirmed by RUG, Schubert or Cameron. It was reported in the New York Post article, but no, I don't know where they got their figures from or who their sources were. But as I said, the bottom line is the original version of Phantom is financially unsustainable in today's climate. I don't think any of the mega-musicals of the 80s/early 90s exist in their original form now, sadly; so Phantom has done very well to run for 35 years. It will have outlived the original Broadway production of Les Mis by 20 years.
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Post by scarpia on Sept 17, 2022 23:56:23 GMT
I was rather hoping to have to delay my next Broadway trip but I guess I can't if this is the only way to see the original again. I have no interest in the cheaper version; I'd rather wait for a properly rethought revival at some point to come along than see the sad ghost of something that used to be genuinely bigger and better.
They really ought to film this since it is the last link to a golden age of big production values with huge talent at the helm. The last production still around helmed by a Broadway titan.
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Post by scarpia on Sept 17, 2022 23:58:26 GMT
So the NY Times have confirmed it. Final performance on 18th February 2023. Cast told earlier today. Shocking. In true RUG style, they were told after they'd found out on the Internet.
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520 posts
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Post by anthony on Sept 18, 2022 0:09:43 GMT
Looking at some data here, the reasoning doesn't make too much sense. Capacity wise, it's performing at around what it was pre-pandemic and has been for a couple of months now. Average ticket sold is $92. Pre-pandemic is actually lower - average of $88 (some weeks going down to low 70s and others low 90s as a high average)
Their weekly grosses are also pretty high. If we look to mid Jan 2020, grosses were $770,000. Even going back to March 2019, gross was 837,647 and early march is in the 600,000s. Grosses over summer reached over $1m multiple times.
I know there are other costs involved and costs have risen, but with the average ticket sale actually rising and the profits are actually some of the highest they've ever seen out of holiday seasons, it's just baffling? It's true they struggled immediately after theatres reopened (January of this year was particularly horrendous for them - sometimes falling under 45% capacity) but they have rebounded to be making some of their highest weekly grosses ever (again, outside of the holiday periods). I appreciate that this still makes it on average one of the cheapest average ticket costs on Broadway, but like I said, the average ticket prices is actually pretty high compared to the years leading up to the pandemic. Which begs the question: if it is losing money, how long has it been losing money for?
Or are we really just going to see the cheapened version shoehorned in within a couple of months?
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Post by bobbievanhusen on Sept 18, 2022 7:28:59 GMT
Those few? Half the musicians and most of the crew and music department have been there since day one! And most of the people in the ensemble have been involved with the show for a very long time. And of course I feel sorry for them! It´s hard enough to get a new job when you´re older, especially in an industry as competitive as showbusiness. It seems like the Phans care about the people that put their 200% every night in showing the world what musical theatre can be like, and will probably be replaced with machines and cheap labor, so a producer can get even more money. This isn´t the first, nor the second but the third time Cameron has done this. No one gives '200%' every night in a job they have done for 35 years. Do you know why the show closed? did the Shuberts give them notice? Not that it would matter. Cameron would would be blamed either way
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Post by scarpia on Sept 18, 2022 9:44:25 GMT
Or are we really just going to see the cheapened version shoehorned in within a couple of months? I'm going to guess about a year. It can't be done as quickly (or seamlessly, with the media not even noticing) in London since the producers don't own the theatre this time. And then we'll have the 'for the 21st century', 'bigger and better' rubbish again etc. The reports said the Shuberts were reluctant to do so, so I'm guessing not.
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Post by SuttonPeron on Sept 18, 2022 12:52:59 GMT
No one gives '200%' every night in a job they have done for 35 years. Do you know why the show closed? did the Shuberts give them notice? Not that it would matter. Cameron would would be blamed either way I know no more than what´s public about the closure. However, what I do know is that less than a month ago (meaning 35 years after opening night) the show did not feel dated or stale, and certainly not rushed. And as we´ve seen happen in other shows, that can only happen with a cast and crew that´s passionate and devoted to the show they´re working at (and a good resident director). Of course Cameron will be blamed because this is certainly not the first time he´s closed a long-running iconic original production to replace it with a scaled-back touring version. I highly doubt the Schuberts wanted to close the show.
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2,859 posts
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Post by couldileaveyou on Sept 18, 2022 18:37:22 GMT
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Post by surge on Sept 18, 2022 18:50:46 GMT
Either way, I feel devastated by the news. I first was forced to see this with my class trip to Toronto, Canada back in 1989, and saw Colm Wilkinson and Rebecca Caine. I was not looking forward to watching a bunch of actors running around a stage singing what they were thinking.. And then the dark and eerie stage drew me in with the auctioneer's gavel crack and his loud booming voice echoing throughout the theater "SOLD!". I can not explain how much this show has changed me and has provided for me through several life-changing experiences and my heart has shattered finding out about its closing on Broadway. Needless to say, I have purchased several tickets for various performances on Broadway in January as I don't want to see it go. I will figure out how to pay for my decision later. This is going to impact a lot of individuals like me I am sure.
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Post by surge on Sept 18, 2022 18:55:20 GMT
I don't have anything nice to say so I will keep it to myself.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2022 21:38:12 GMT
I respect that the show means a great deal to some people, but I just can't get worked up about it closing. Sadness will prevail for a short time around the actual closing and the life on Broadway will quickly move on to whatever is next.
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914 posts
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Post by karloscar on Sept 18, 2022 22:39:41 GMT
It's theatre dahling! Nothing's supposed to last forever. (Phantom was one of those shows which left me totally cold, though I could see why it appealed to some. Christine and Raoul were rather tedious and we don't ever learn enough about the Phantom to care much what happens to him. Nice design and clever work by Hal Prince but one viewing was more than enough.)
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7,175 posts
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Post by Jon on Sept 19, 2022 0:03:38 GMT
I respect that the show means a great deal to some people, but I just can't get worked up about it closing. Sadness will prevail for a short time around the actual closing and the life on Broadway will quickly move on to whatever is next. 35 years is a fantastic run. I always think the long runners created unrealistic expectations when as Cameron pointed out 1-2 year run was considered a success when he was starting out.
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Post by intoanewlife on Sept 19, 2022 12:43:30 GMT
I have seen this show twice with a nearly 20 year gap in between and had the same experience both times.
It was fine until the last 10 minutes where they stand screeching at each other over the top of each other so I couldn't understand what either of them were saying and then it just finished.
I still have no idea what happened x
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Post by surge on Sept 19, 2022 13:21:01 GMT
I guess it's theatre, but I also like seeing the mask when you see a video of Times Square and knowing that the musical that drew me in is still around for me to experience again if I choose. (Call me selfish) If it were not for the school choosing to take our class to see it, I may not be a theatre buff today. I cannot wait to see the next show.
But as far as the Phantom, he is a dark and mysterious character that in the end I feel compassion for. You are right, we don't know much about him and I think the entire show leaves us to imagine the details in our own minds... that includes how the story ends. The disfigurement of the Phantom for example, is the reason the world has not shown him any compassion. And being ugly myself, I can see the cruelty that is shown by all who expect one to be appealing to the eyes and easy to look at....
Anyway, I view it as a great love story that tends to pull at the heartstrings in the end with some pretty good music.
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Post by 141920grm on Sept 19, 2022 14:18:06 GMT
No one gives '200%' every night in a job they have done for 35 years. Do you know why the show closed? did the Shuberts give them notice? Not that it would matter. Cameron would would be blamed either way I know no more than what´s public about the closure. However, what I do know is that less than a month ago (meaning 35 years after opening night) the show did not feel dated or stale, and certainly not rushed. And as we´ve seen happen in other shows, that can only happen with a cast and crew that´s passionate and devoted to the show they´re working at (and a good resident director). Of course Cameron will be blamed because this is certainly not the first time he´s closed a long-running iconic original production to replace it with a scaled-back touring version. I highly doubt the Schuberts wanted to close the show. It's always difficult for those who are not huge fans of a show, to drum up basic empathy for all the people whose immediate livelihoods or career aspirations are affected by its closing, than the ones who are aware of the realities of the industry but do care a lot in addition to the average person's concerns about weekly grosses and a great night out. I hope none of the Broadway cast see this thread and the "high horse" comments that could come across callous to some.
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Post by scarpia on Sept 19, 2022 17:16:49 GMT
I don't have anything nice to say so I will keep it to myself. His comments seem evasive and some of the inside gossip on this is that Phantom isn't really faring more badly than most other Broadway shows right now. It could weather the storm on this. Its grosses and attendance rates were far worse in the early 2000s when it did really look like it was going to shut, and indeed the producers were thinking it might have to close circa 2002. I suspect this is a similar situation to what happened in London and there is something going on behind the scenes that is not being disclosed. The most I can surmise is that Cameron wants to shut it and bring the scaled-down version to Broadway and has, as in London, got his way again. But how he has done it, I don't quite know, since RUG owns the majority rights for the Broadway production. RUG and ALW still have said absolutely nothing about this and it looks like the news leaking to the media have caught them off guard and, once again, Cameron has beaten them to it. It will look stupid of them to suddenly say next week that it isn't closing after all and is just going on hiatus and is coming back 'bigger and better', given how that all played in London, but I wouldn't put it past them. I wasn't expecting this show to outlast the 2020s but it would be nice (if a pipe dream) for it to be captured and preserved for posterity. Because the Albert Hall thing and that damn film are not what the Phantom magic is really about.
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7,175 posts
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Post by Jon on Sept 19, 2022 17:42:17 GMT
I assume the Majestic will be getting a long overdue refurbishment before perhaps reopening with a new show and even a new name (The Harold Prince Theatre anyone?) in Autumn 2023.
I find it odd that they're closing it rather than moving theatres etc unless the contracts are so ironclad that they have to close it in order to introduce new contracts.
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Post by scarpia on Sept 19, 2022 17:59:55 GMT
I assume the Majestic will be getting a long overdue refurbishment before perhaps reopening with a new show and even a new name (The Harold Prince Theatre anyone?) in Autumn 2023. I find it odd that they're closing it rather than moving theatres etc unless the contracts are so ironclad that they have to close it in order to introduce new contracts. The Broadway contracts are much tighter and ironclad than London, and the unions stronger. Moving theatres, especially to a smaller one, would also give the impression of a downscale which - even if that is the reality - is one that is clear they are trying to avoid given their marketing language when they did this in London. Some are speculating that the TV series that is going to be made that features rehearsals of the show might be used to generate publicity for the new Broadway production. Would be lovely (and overdue) if they were finally to rename the Majestic the Prince. It's the theatre where Hal Prince met Steve Sondheim for the first time and so it feels very appropriate.
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5,890 posts
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Post by mrbarnaby on Sept 19, 2022 23:10:39 GMT
He is obviously closing this so he can reopen his cheap Phantom shortly after. And pocket all that extra money he won’t be paying in royalties.
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