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Post by partytentdown on Jun 5, 2022 18:25:57 GMT
There's more non-Abbatar stuff than is ideal, the songs are strong enough to cover it but it's a high ratio, maybe 1 in 4 numbers over the course of the show. It's pretty much every 3 songs to give the Abbatar projectors a break otherwise they will overheat and stop working. I'm not sure how true this is. From what I understand there's no difference in the projectors for the abbatars and the rest of the screen content. Fairly sure if it was genuinely a projector issue, they'd find a solution... They haven't exactly scrimped and saved on this. I think it's an artistic choice to mix in other content, it's quite common at most gigs nowadays and I think they've done it to add to the realism. |
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Post by intoanewlife on Jun 5, 2022 18:29:54 GMT
It's pretty much every 3 songs to give the Abbatar projectors a break otherwise they will overheat and stop working. I'm not sure how true this is. From what I understand there's no difference in the projectors for the abbatars and the rest of the screen content. Fairly sure if it was genuinely a projector issue, they'd find a solution... They haven't exactly scrimped and saved on this. I think it's an artistic choice to mix in other content, it's quite common at most gigs nowadays and I think they've done it to add to the realism. My friend caught the tube with someone who works on it after Thursdays show and that is what they told him. There would be many projectors projecting different elements throughout I would've thought, considering how massive that stage is. |
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Post by floorshow on Jun 5, 2022 18:47:36 GMT
It's pretty much every 3 songs to give the Abbatar projectors a break otherwise they will overheat and stop working. I'm not sure how true this is. From what I understand there's no difference in the projectors for the abbatars and the rest of the screen content. Fairly sure if it was genuinely a projector issue, they'd find a solution... They haven't exactly scrimped and saved on this. I think it's an artistic choice to mix in other content, it's quite common at most gigs nowadays and I think they've done it to add to the realism. If it's an artistic choice then not having them onstage absolutely breaks the spell, the only time it feels justified is the 'this is the band' bit. If it's a tech issue then I can understand it but there's still a way to go before it's perfected if you can only have it in 15 min slices. But it is the shows USP so I hope they've got all those performances in the bank and they can be introduced in the future, it's a lesser show when they're not onstage. Which is weird to write cos I know they're never actually there but it's a significant difference. |
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Post by intoanewlife on Jun 5, 2022 19:08:36 GMT
I'm not sure how true this is. From what I understand there's no difference in the projectors for the abbatars and the rest of the screen content. Fairly sure if it was genuinely a projector issue, they'd find a solution... They haven't exactly scrimped and saved on this. I think it's an artistic choice to mix in other content, it's quite common at most gigs nowadays and I think they've done it to add to the realism. If it's an artistic choice then not having them onstage absolutely breaks the spell, the only time it feels justified is the 'this is the band' bit. If it's a tech issue then I can understand it but there's still a way to go before it's perfected if you can only have it in 15 min slices. But it is the shows USP so I hope they've got all those performances in the bank and they can be introduced in the future, it's a lesser show when they're not onstage. Which is weird to write cos I know they're never actually there but it's a significant difference. I think it is probably a mix of both. I also think it is probably precautionary more than anything else as it'd be pretty embarrassing if the thing everyone is paying to see suddenly stops working mid show. Those Abbatars must be at least 8K resolution (maybe even 16K) for them to look as believable as they do, the rest is probably 4K...therefore they are going to need a much more powerful projector for those elements. Projectors have all sorts of problems going on as far as over heating is concerned and if they get too hot they can also create dead pixels and therefore the whole thing would have to be replaced at great expense. I've had one at home for well over 10 years and the noise difference between watching something in 2D as opposed to something in 3D is quite significant, as the motor has to work a lot harder to project the 2 images in full HD. I imagine the same would go for the level of detail between 4k and higher resolutions. |
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Post by partytentdown on Jun 5, 2022 19:14:32 GMT
This is a show that cost millions and millions, there is no way they don't have backups of backups of backups for the tech that's needed.
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Post by inthenose on Jun 5, 2022 19:16:53 GMT
This is a show that cost millions and millions, there is no way they don't have backups of backups of backups for the tech that's needed. You'd be surprised. A lot of very big shows are held together with duct tape, a couple of experienced old heads and prayer. |
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Post by partytentdown on Jun 5, 2022 19:28:29 GMT
This is a show that cost millions and millions, there is no way they don't have backups of backups of backups for the tech that's needed. You'd be surprised. A lot of very big shows are held together with duct tape, a couple of experienced old heads and prayer. I know... But not this one! |
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Post by inthenose on Jun 5, 2022 19:39:47 GMT
You'd be surprised. A lot of very big shows are held together with duct tape, a couple of experienced old heads and prayer. I know... But not this one! Fair do's, I know nothing about the technical aspects of this specific show, I'm saying generally people are amazed how low-tech and dodgy lots of big expensive shows really are behind the scenes! |
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Post by alece10 on Jun 5, 2022 19:53:27 GMT
I also read that the abbatar projectors had to rest at times during the show. To be honest I rather enjoyed the in between bits as the visuals and lighting were spectacular and made the show very varied.
Also it's pretty impressive that there have been no technical stops that I am aware of so far even during rehearsals.
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Post by intoanewlife on Jun 5, 2022 20:17:34 GMT
This is a show that cost millions and millions, there is no way they don't have backups of backups of backups for the tech that's needed. Of course they would have a backup, but (and I'm just guessing) I'd say it would take a little longer than the length of an Abba song to remove a broken 2 ton Imax projector and replace it with another one. Plus at the cost of about $200,000 dollars or more each, they probably don't want to have to keep replacing them too often. The idea of the show is to make most, not lose it... |
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Post by partytentdown on Jun 5, 2022 20:28:03 GMT
This is a show that cost millions and millions, there is no way they don't have backups of backups of backups for the tech that's needed. Of course they would have a backup, but (and I'm just guessing) I'd say it would take a little longer than the length of an Abba song to remove a broken 2 ton Imax projector and replace it with another one. Plus at the cost of about $200,000 dollars or more each, they probably don't want to have to keep replacing them too often. The idea of the show is to make most, not lose it... Well I wasn't suggesting they'd physically remove a broken 2 ton projector mid show. I meant more that if one shuts down for whatever reason, I'm sure they have a system where a backup kicks in, if there's even a slight risk of that happening. Anyway... I like all the different content so long may it play without a hitch. |
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Post by intoanewlife on Jun 5, 2022 20:36:42 GMT
Of course they would have a backup, but (and I'm just guessing) I'd say it would take a little longer than the length of an Abba song to remove a broken 2 ton Imax projector and replace it with another one. Plus at the cost of about $200,000 dollars or more each, they probably don't want to have to keep replacing them too often. The idea of the show is to make most, not lose it... Well I wasn't suggesting they'd physically remove a broken 2 ton projector mid show. I meant more that if one shuts down for whatever reason, I'm sure they have a system where a backup kicks in, if there's even a slight risk of that happening. Anyway... I like all the different content so long may it play without a hitch. Or they could just not overheat the projector...by giving it breaks...like they're doing...so it doesn't burn out...and require a back up projector... |
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Post by floorshow on Jun 5, 2022 20:38:49 GMT
The actual Abbatars aren't projection, they are a flat image on a 65 million pixel LCD screen - an insanely hi-tech version of a domestic LCD tv. I can imagine that gets hot, not plasma screen hot but still toasty.
ILM use very similar kit to make the Disney+ Star Wars shows, it is a big step forward. The rendering is all done by the next-gen of Unreal Engine which drives most console games these days.
There is projection used in the show, one of the most effective bits is the translucent screens which drop toward the end and have projections between the Abbatars and the crowd.
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Post by intoanewlife on Jun 5, 2022 20:48:08 GMT
The actual Abbatars aren't projection, they are a flat image on a 65 million pixel LCD screen - an insanely hi-tech version of a domestic LCD tv. I can imagine that gets hot, not plasma screen hot but still toasty. That is what I thought it was originally before I heard the projector story. If you film the whole stage you can clearly see edges (because of the perfect black levels) and where the lower rez projections kick in. I imagine if that overheats it's a hell of a lot more expensive and more difficult to replace than an Imax projector. Out of interest...do you know of it is non glasses 3D as it looks like it? |
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Post by floorshow on Jun 5, 2022 20:57:24 GMT
The image is flat 2D - it's much simpler than it looks, just done to a very high standard.
The 3D comes via the render (I assume that's live, don't know though) - so they could view the same mo-cap from different angles by moving the virtual cameras around. Not had a chance to read the programme yet but there's definitely some production stuff in there.
But in the room, it's still a flat image.
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Post by floorshow on Jun 5, 2022 20:57:55 GMT
I don't think they've got a spare in the loft  |
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Post by intoanewlife on Jun 5, 2022 21:02:00 GMT
The image is flat 2D - it's much simpler than it looks, just done to a very high standard. The 3D comes via the render (I assume that's live, don't know though) - so they could view the same mo-cap from different angles by moving the virtual cameras around. Not had a chance to read the programme yet but there's definitely some production stuff in there. But in the room, it's still a flat image. Actually looking at the video again...Is the whole stage a video screen then? Are some parts of it higher rez than the other parts as clearly the Abbatars look better than the rest of the stuff. I doubt anything is 'live' surely they just show the completed CGI film? |
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Post by danb on Jun 5, 2022 21:08:08 GMT
The whole back wall is a screen to varying degrees but the abbatar area is clearly a different screen again, then there are projections on to other areas too. Then there is the lighting. Wow!
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Post by partytentdown on Jun 5, 2022 21:08:10 GMT
The image is flat 2D - it's much simpler than it looks, just done to a very high standard. The 3D comes via the render (I assume that's live, don't know though) - so they could view the same mo-cap from different angles by moving the virtual cameras around. Not had a chance to read the programme yet but there's definitely some production stuff in there. But in the room, it's still a flat image. Actually looking at the video again...Is the whole stage a video screen then? Are some parts of it higher rez than the other parts as clearly the Abbatars look better than the rest of the stuff. I doubt anything is 'live' surely they just show the completed CGI film? The footage on the side screens cuts between live shots of the band/backing singers and the pre-made renders which are exactly the same as the main abbatars. There is a person mixing the shots live. It's almost identical every night but not quite (because the singers/musicians have understudies/covers). |
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Post by intoanewlife on Jun 5, 2022 21:12:38 GMT
The whole back wall is a screen to varying degrees but the abbatar area is clearly a different screen again, then there are projections on to other areas too. Then there is the lighting. Wow! Yes that is what I thought. They would need to have perfect blacks on their screen for them to look so lifelike and for the lights to not interfere with the illusion. |
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Post by floorshow on Jun 5, 2022 21:13:13 GMT
The stage has levels, what looks like the start of the second step is where I think the screen is but I'm guessing and wasn't very close. The bit doing the heavy lifting doesn't extend to the left and right boundaries, that's more traditional smoke and mirrors.
Keeping the band unlit for long periods and off to one side felt like a strange decision - it would be more immersive to have them both sides and partially lit all the time - I guess being close together helps with the playing though.
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Post by intoanewlife on Jun 5, 2022 21:13:15 GMT
Actually looking at the video again...Is the whole stage a video screen then? Are some parts of it higher rez than the other parts as clearly the Abbatars look better than the rest of the stuff. I doubt anything is 'live' surely they just show the completed CGI film? The footage on the side screens cuts between live shots of the band/backing singers and the pre-made renders which are exactly the same as the main abbatars. There is a person mixing the shots live. It's almost identical every night but not quite (because the singers/musicians have understudies/covers). Cool! Very interesting...I really do need to order a programme online so I can read it all. |
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Post by intoanewlife on Jun 5, 2022 21:15:56 GMT
Keeping the band unlit for long periods and off to one side felt like a strange decision - it would be more immersive to have them both sides and partially lit all the time - I guess being close together helps with the playing though. Yes as a fan of all things symmetrical that annoyed the living sh*t out of me too lol |
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Post by ShoreditchTom on Jun 6, 2022 6:28:51 GMT
{Spoiler - click to view} I'm pretty sure the Abbatars are just part of the LED but much more bright and saturated than the rest of the dark content so they appear to stand out so much. See this which is a grab from a video I found on YouTube - the "flash" at the end of the first song - shows things pretty well ie it's all on screen.  As another poster says they have gauze type things that drop and are projected onto - they are down when you first come into the auditorium and also drop for Waterloo and maybe other songs (can't remember) - but they tend to show more general imagery and are far less sharp (as you'd expect from projection) Perhaps the screen needs a break from the ultra high res it will be running in every few songs, or they need a break to load up the next set of movies - maybe the animations are running in lower res and/or because they don't feature the super bright Abbatars that may give the screen a chance to cool down / avoid Abbatar burn in?! |
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Post by theatreian on Jun 6, 2022 9:52:30 GMT
I'd probably not really know about all the tech stuff and just enjoy the show, as I did for what it is: a great ABBA specacle!
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