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Post by Nicholas on May 21, 2016 15:07:16 GMT
If you give "anyone with a blog" free tickets, it's just another version of an "under 25s access scheme." Limit it to a few influential bloggers, I can see the point, but please don't tell me that anyone with Wordpress is automatically going to be any good or ever be any good as someone who really captures public attention sufficient to justify the free ticket / marketing gain ratio a good reviewer should for a theatre.
I obviously don’t think that anyone with an Ethernet cable deserves a free ticket, or that starting a blog and demanding free tickets inherently means you’ll become the new Jacques Derrida, and I do think a form of discrimination has to occur – I just hope it tends towards the looser end, and encourages a number of people. If these comps are given to any Tom Dick or Harry with a tumbler then that delegitimizes them, but similarly if they’re only kept back to people who started blogging when it was a novelty and now are established, that delegitimizes them too.
Only giving blogging tickets to blogging bigwigs actually pushes blogging backwards, suggesting the future of blogging's less varied than its past, and that there is a bar over which you need to jump (Readers? Reviews written? Shows seen?) before you’ve ‘made it’. Obviously giving blogging tickets to blogging bozos who are just looking for a cheap night out pushes blogging backwards, because there has to be a form of quality control. Giving blogging tickets to influential bloggers is hopefully a balance of old hats and new voices: what makes an critic influential now and what will make a critic influential in the future is experience, and giving half-decent bloggers now the experience of broadening themselves and developing their voice and influence is better than blocking them off because they've not got the influence they can only get by being seeing the theatre they're not allowed to see until they've got the influence they can't get without being influential in the first place. Theatre criticism needs to broaden - as of now, blogging's still too cliquey, there absolutely is a 'team' of central figures, there's this awful internet group-think about how everything Ivo van Hove and Robert Icke to is genius and everything David Hare or Alan Ayckbourn do is middle class wank - and broadening the amount of emerging voices does just the trick to oppose this cul-de-sac. Only giving them to established writers is simply staying in this cul-de-sac.
Besides, the difference between ‘emerging bloggers’ and ‘folk who like theatre and talk about themselves on the internet too much’ is fairly clear – there will be people truly using the freedom of self-publishing to try and push analysis further than a 700-word press-night write-up can offer, or doing interesting things with the medium, or focusing their attentions on becoming an expert in a niche. Those ‘emerging bloggers’ may not be influential, they may not be established, they may not even be that good yet, but if they’ve got a voice that looks like it might develop into something special, the teeny compensation of one ticket is good. And if they don’t grow into critics, no harm is done by the NT in giving them the chance to fail amidst giving better critics the chance to succeed. So I absolutely think there should be a limit, I absolutely think there need to be criteria to be met, I absolutely think quality control is essential, I just think they ought to be lax, they ought to be positive and they ought to be beneficial to the critics who will grow into great critics. I don’t know how you’d limit this (I’d be terrible at it – for all that I’m being positive now, most professional critics get on my wick these days), but someone’s job should be like a football talent scout – to read all the sh*t banging about on the internet, to struggle through the obvious comments or insipid prose of too many young writers, to find the people with some solid knowledge of and passion for theatre, and give them this meagre compensation of £20 to help set them on their way.
I still expect the average blogger to have their 9 to 5, to scrape the time, the travel, the research, the writing experience themselves. If they really care about theatre then, like you, like me, like most of us on here, they’ll give it their all financially and time-wise anyway – a £20 freebie doesn’t make or break anyone. But what this does (well, I’m overstating, but if this does set a precedent, what that precedent does) is legitimize blogging, and in a very minor way democratise it. Much like you or I, any young theatre lover absolutely has to fund it themselves, to live their own lives a propos of this, to put in all the legwork for love and love alone. But the teeniest compensation of £20 back is deserved, and the more good voices banging about these days who can be supported into becoming great ones – that’s got to be a good thing in my books.
Of course, if they really cared about the theatre, they'd have regular "Theatreforum Only Nights", but that's another fight for another day.
Conversely, people like myself DID have to pay to build up our own knowledge - as would all the "official reviewers" we know today. If you have the dedication at a young age to do as I know I did - work up to 5 jobs at a time outside school - to pay for my habit, I'd argue the end result is the one we'd want. Actually dedicated and hardened people who know what they are talking about.
Well hey, that’s something I’m sure everyone on here understands. When I was a student, I was going to say my lowest point was that week I tried to survive on a seventh of a packet of value biscuits for dinner per day so as to fund theatre, but then there were days I just wouldn’t eat. I turned down dates because between financing sex or Sophocles I chose Sophocles. Just yesterday I went up to the local uni and had my head scanned for science for a mere £20 just so I could fund another trip – and I wish I could say that was the first time I’d funded a theatre trip by letting a stranger inside me for £20.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2016 21:03:49 GMT
Brevity is the soul of wit.
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Post by Snciole on May 22, 2016 14:26:20 GMT
Mark Shenton, who is an ungrateful, spoilt man, claims he gives better reviews when he gets to bring a friend/latest fancy piece/spouse
Quite understandably Gunnar Cauthey has told him to be a professional
The ever lovely Baz Bamigboye has said that all professional critics can afford that £20
Except Mark Shenton, apparently
I don't believe his companion can't buy their own ticket. He seems to see theatre as a night out rather than his job. I don't doubt freelance pays terribly but seems to be in the US all the time so I am sure he is doing fine.
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Post by Nicholas on May 22, 2016 14:48:03 GMT
Except Mark Shenton, apparently I don't believe his companion can't buy their own ticket. He seems to see theatre as a night out rather than his job. I don't doubt freelance pays terribly but seems to be in the US all the time so I am sure he is doing fine.
OK, I’m sorry, but if I knew a critic and I knew he could get me the best seat in the house to any show I wanted for a mere £20, I’d pay the £20 myself. You know what? If you're reading this, Mark, send me a message before every NT Press Night and I'll pay the £20 to accompany you to a front row stalls ticket to huge stars in great shows.
If SHenton’s friends are only his friends because he gives them freebies, then I really do hope you’re reading this, Marky, because I’m going to give you the advice your parents and PSHE teachers should have given you: they’re not you’re real friends, and when you’re using money to buy someone’s affections, that’s prostitution.
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Post by Snciole on May 22, 2016 14:56:00 GMT
Except Mark Shenton, apparently I don't believe his companion can't buy their own ticket. He seems to see theatre as a night out rather than his job. I don't doubt freelance pays terribly but seems to be in the US all the time so I am sure he is doing fine.
OK, I’m sorry, but if I knew a critic and I knew he could get me the best seat in the house to any show I wanted for a mere £20, I’d pay the £20 myself. You know what? If you're reading this, Mark, send me a message before every NT Press Night and I'll pay the £20 to accompany you to a front row stalls ticket to huge stars in great shows.
If SHenton’s friends are only his friends because he gives them freebies, then I really do hope you’re reading this, Marky, because I’m going to give you the advice your parents and PSHE teachers should have given you: they’re not you’re real friends, and when you’re using money to buy someone’s affections, that’s prostitution.
Haha! Well indeed! If you don't fancy it then don't go and I am sure Mark can find another hot piece to take along or just go by himself. He claims he would never see his partner if he couldn't take them along. You would, there are rarely press nights on Sundays and your partner, who is even broker than Shenton apparently, could just pay £20 and look at Mark's programme/get some free zipper tap water.
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Post by Snciole on May 22, 2016 14:58:21 GMT
And how many shows do the NT do a year? AKAIK only RSC and NT have stopped the plus 1 comps, which means the West End and even smaller spaces are still doing them? It is unlikely he is at the NT more than a 2-3 times a month?
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2016 15:05:07 GMT
Also I totally disagree that theatre is inherently a social activity; I go by myself most of the time and can concentrate much better without worrying if a friend/partner is bored or - pet hate - turns to me even before the interval applause has died away and insists on telling me their opinion.
Be your own man, Shenton, and formulate your own responses!
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2016 15:09:52 GMT
Are we all missing a chance to ask exactly how many friends Shenton might have if he doesn't have a free ticket on offer? (miaow)
As a blogger-and I started a blog merely as a way to document things for my own purposes and anyone equally nerdy who seemed to care- I have paid for all my own tickets, as I have for the previous 15 odd years of theatre going-in which, as others have said I developed my knowledge taste and experience. Now for me my blog has been an 'audition piece' for writing for actual publications, through whom I do get comps. Being a regional person, I now sometimes get offered comps for the blog if I'm not covering another publication, but only from certain smaller companies who want as much coverage as they can get. I consider any free ticket a bonus that I can carry on building up my knowledge with (I'm 31 for anyone interested in the age thing) and if a company-usually the bigger touring ones- sees fit to give me a plus one, I'm thrilled to take a friend (Ok my Mum...) but it's very much a 'perk' not something I'd expect.
BUT I don't get paid for any of my reviews, so I see my (one) free ticket as payment in kind, and any additional ones as a bonus.
As for bloggers getting to see shows, I'm all for diversifying the critical voice, because a predominatly middle aged male critical voice isn't reflective of the wider audience, and for certain shows I'm sure targeting bloggers of certain age/demographic would be good for sales.
But bottom line is, they don't NEED a plus one, and if they really can't function without a friend to prop up the bar with then £20 isn't exactly a lot to ask.
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Post by peggs on May 22, 2016 15:16:00 GMT
I suppose if I was being generous I say perhaps Shenton means he writes better quality reviews when he has company rather than he finds having company makes for a better evening and therefore he reviews something better as in more positively. Otherwise is he suggesting without a free plus one he'll write the NT lower starred reviews regardless?
Abby all us single attending theatre goers must just be inherently anisocial do you think?! Or if we weren't only on our own it would suddenly be a much more enjoyable experience. Yeah maybe not.
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Post by Scots UK Theatre on May 22, 2016 15:16:47 GMT
Totally with the National theatre on this. Critics shouldn't be entitled to bring a friend automatically to shows. £20 is not a big ask if they can't review without a companion.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2016 15:19:54 GMT
I mean I know I'm antisocial but I always remember a friend of mine saying that they prefered going alone to certain shows as if they were worried their companion wouldn't like it then they were distracted. Now for some shows I love company, but others I 100% agree I'd rather be only 'worried' about my own opinon!
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Post by peggs on May 22, 2016 15:22:26 GMT
I mean I know I'm antisocial but I always remember a friend of mine saying that they prefered going alone to certain shows as if they were worried their companion wouldn't like it then they were distracted. Now for some shows I love company, but others I 100% agree I'd rather be only 'worried' about my own opinon! Yes unless it's a seasoned theatre goer who is happily taking the risk I never quite relax with someone else there in case they don't enjoy it, or worse they don't enjoy it, I love it and then they want to tell me why it was so bad.
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Post by Snciole on May 22, 2016 15:23:28 GMT
I go mostly alone and have told my current fancy piece that I will not invite him to everything I see. Going with a friend puts a lot of pressure to make it a good night. It doesn't affect my enjoyment, it is a relief when I see something awful and I haven't dragged someone else along. At least I can leave at the interval.
If Shenton is so insecure he struggles to do his job without a companion by his side he is in the wrong job. His enjoyment of the night is irrelevant. He is there to do the job he is being paid to do, not entertain his companions.
For majority of us bloggers that ticket is our payment, if we are really lucky we get a programme too, but to suggest it influences how he will review a show stinks of blackmail of theatres, who still rely on a voice like Shenton's to sell tickets.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2016 15:31:32 GMT
I mean I know I'm antisocial but I always remember a friend of mine saying that they prefered going alone to certain shows as if they were worried their companion wouldn't like it then they were distracted. Now for some shows I love company, but others I 100% agree I'd rather be only 'worried' about my own opinon! Yes unless it's a seasoned theatre goer who is happily taking the risk I never quite relax with someone else there in case they don't enjoy it, or worse they don't enjoy it, I love it and then they want to tell me why it was so bad. Exactly! I have a very small group of friends I can trust to take to the theatre and have a healthy debate with and still be friends and not worry that they now hate me for poor taste!
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Post by PalelyLaura on May 22, 2016 16:10:39 GMT
I also get nervous when taking friends to shows (with good reason - one of them was that dire Trevor Nunn Tempest at the Haymarket). I don't see theatre as a social activity - although judging by the frequent bad behaviour we all see, plenty of people do. It's a *shared* activity but that's not quite the same thing.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2016 18:33:20 GMT
I'd go to the theatre with any of you, you all sound very smart, and as we're all seasoned theatre-goers, we wouldn't need to worry about each other.
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Post by DuchessConstance on May 22, 2016 18:56:40 GMT
Gosh Shenton is being such a Tw*t about this
I have quite a bit of second hand embarrassment for the New Wolsey popping their heads into the debate to say "we'll give you two tickets if you'll come to Ipswich!" and being roundly ignored by everyone.
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Post by peggs on May 22, 2016 19:45:02 GMT
I'd go to the theatre with any of you, you all sound very smart, and as we're all seasoned theatre-goers, we wouldn't need to worry about each other. now we just have to get our schedules to coincide and we'll have those pesky single seat websites sussed as well.
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Post by partytentdown on May 22, 2016 19:55:31 GMT
Gosh Shenton is being such a Tw*t about this I have quite a bit of second hand embarrassment for the New Wolsey popping their heads into the debate to say "we'll give you two tickets if you'll come to Ipswich!" and being roundly ignored by everyone. Hilariously within the last week he's been boasting about his fancy holiday to San Francisco, travelling in first class - as a change to his regular trips to NYC where he owns a house. So, yeah, come on Mark, twenty quid once every 3 months?
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Post by Snciole on May 22, 2016 19:59:27 GMT
Gosh Shenton is being such a Tw*t about this I have quite a bit of second hand embarrassment for the New Wolsey popping their heads into the debate to say "we'll give you two tickets if you'll come to Ipswich!" and being roundly ignored by everyone. Oh the shame up Shenton would only screech about how he is too poverty stricken for the Megabus to Ipswich.
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Post by Phantom of London on May 22, 2016 23:51:01 GMT
I bet my next free ticket at the National that this rule would never apply to Michael Billington.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2016 5:31:39 GMT
I mean I know I'm antisocial but I always remember a friend of mine saying that they prefered going alone to certain shows as if they were worried their companion wouldn't like it then they were distracted. Now for some shows I love company, but others I 100% agree I'd rather be only 'worried' about my own opinon! Yes, I'm with you on this. I spent many of my younger years going to the theatre solo so don't have a problem with this. I am lucky enough to have theatre going friends and husband now, but there are still things I choose to see on my own. Nice to have company to discuss the play with but not necessary all the time. I'd rather go alone than be uneasy about the person I am with disliking the event.
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Post by Latecomer on May 23, 2016 6:46:56 GMT
I have to think that we are all somewhat missing the point here.....if Rufus has to ban +1s for critics it seems like penny pinching cost cutting. It is rather like a large company cutting back on the biscuit fund when times are hard. In the grand scheme of things it will make no difference at all to the profit the NT makes....he needs to have shows that sell out and are popular! Simple.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2016 8:37:53 GMT
I definitely mentioned penny-pinching earlier in the thread. What with doing away with Sunday performances, closing War Horse, sending out emails asking for donations for drum-revolve upkeep, and now this, there's clearly some financial issues going down that we're only getting the tiniest glimpses of. And, frankly, that we're seeing as much of them as we are is something of a concern in itself.
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Post by Jon on May 23, 2016 8:53:59 GMT
I definitely mentioned penny-pinching earlier in the thread. What with doing away with Sunday performances, closing War Horse, sending out emails asking for donations for drum-revolve upkeep, and now this, there's clearly some financial issues going down that we're only getting the tiniest glimpses of. And, frankly, that we're seeing as much of them as we are is something of a concern in itself. War Horse closing isn't penny pinching, it closed because sales had fallen and rather than keep it going and potentially lose money, they decided to close it. its clear transfers have helped the National in the last decade and thankfully Curious Incident is doing well as is People Places and Things
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