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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 21:34:41 GMT
It may be the 'expected norm' but things can change. This is all perfectly reasonable. Critics are entitled to nothing. As is proven with recent shows, the critic's opinion means very little these days!
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Post by oxfordsimon on May 20, 2016 0:07:59 GMT
Will you feel differently if (as has been suggested) it turns out those tickets are now being given for free to bloggers, instead of to critics' friends? That would mean more reviewers getting to see the finished show for free on press night from a good seat than before, and allows reviewers who aren't necessarily being paid to write to see the show for free. A lot depends on who those bloggers are. For a review to have any real weight, it has to be backed up by the reputation of the critic and the publication. And whilst there are many blogs that are building up their reputations in that way, it is far from the case with all of them. There is much wrong with the state of the newspaper arts coverage - with many regional papers moving to syndicated reviews or just relying on reader comments. But blogs are not properly picking up that slack. A review is only ever the thoughts of an individual based on what they experienced - but those thoughts do carry weight when they are articulated by someone who is an established figure with the credentials to back up their reputation. Yes, there are bloggers who could well establish themselves as the Billingtons and the Coveneys of the future - but working out who they might be is not an easy task. I am not against change - but this proposal is sending out the wrong messages. I would rather see 'celebs' being denied their tickets for press night and those tickets going to a broader range of publications.
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Post by showgirl on May 20, 2016 4:09:10 GMT
What about enabling (more) ordinary members of the public to attend press nights? There would be an unreal, untypical atmosphere, but in the case of theatres large enough to allow this, the public are likely to be seated far away from the critics and usually PN is the only evening performance in the whole run early enough - usually 7 pm as opposed to 7.30 pm onwards - to allow those who have a long journey and/or an early start next day the opportunity to attend in that slot.
Annoyingly, some theatres claim as soon as booking opens that PN is sold out (e.g. the Tricycle), which even in the case of that small theatre cannot possibly be the case as some of the seats are so restricted that I don't believe they would be offered to critics. Credit therefore to those theatres (e.g. all spaces at the NT) which do allow general booking for PN.
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Post by duncan on May 20, 2016 7:21:27 GMT
The only time I've ever been at a press night the only difference I noted was that the show started earlier and The Boy Lineacre was in the audience with his now ex.
Make them pay.
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Post by partytentdown on May 20, 2016 7:23:31 GMT
They'll have to come up with some criteria to work out which bloggers to invite. What's to stop me knocking together a quick blog next time there's a sold out show at the NT I quite fancy seeing? What about my mate's gardening blog which occasionally mentions the theatre trips she goes on - does she get a free ticket? Where do they draw the line?
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2016 7:53:09 GMT
I think the key word there is "invite". They'll undoubtedly already have a list of bloggers and online publications in mind, and if you have to ask, then you're not on it.
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Post by freckles on May 20, 2016 8:26:50 GMT
They'll have to come up with some criteria to work out which bloggers to invite. What's to stop me knocking together a quick blog next time there's a sold out show at the NT I quite fancy seeing? What about my mate's gardening blog which occasionally mentions the theatre trips she goes on - does she get a free ticket? Where do they draw the line? I'm sure theatres that invite bloggers do. You can't just claim to be a blogger and turn up, it's standard practice to have to demonstrate your readership and levels of online engagement etc.
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Post by Snciole on May 20, 2016 10:27:46 GMT
I am a blogger and recently got some free theatre tickets for a small festival in Wimbledon. I was slightly surprised but it worked out well as I was trying to impress a man with my free tickets and it worked!
Ultimately I am there to concentrate and do a (amateur) job, not impress my latest fancy piece or a friend with my connections, which is all it does.
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Post by talkstageytome on May 20, 2016 11:14:20 GMT
They'll have to come up with some criteria to work out which bloggers to invite. What's to stop me knocking together a quick blog next time there's a sold out show at the NT I quite fancy seeing? What about my mate's gardening blog which occasionally mentions the theatre trips she goes on - does she get a free ticket? Where do they draw the line? One would hope that the person doing the inviting (be it a PR person or one of the creatives in the case of smaller shows) would actually put the effort into working out which bloggers are worth inviting based on their previous content, and their social media reach. The thing about bloggers is that although some may have a high profile now (especially in some circles), when you start a blog it's because you are passionate about the subject. What's the difference between us posting our reviews and thoughts on shows on this forum as opposed to on our own blog? We see something, we have an opinion about it, we share that opinion with others online. The difference is that bloggers are required to take a more serious, analytical tone if they want to be taken seriously. (And must also adhere to embargoes and jump through the same hoops as professional critics if they don't want to lose their reputation and credibility). At least to begin with they pay for their ticket and travel and receive nothing in return. I love reading blogger responses to shows, because you can tell that they are only writing because they are passionate about what they've seen. To me that's heartening. In most cases you can tell whether a blogger is any good or not as soon as you look at their site. I don't think the National Theatre are going to be handing out free tickets to just anyone. Also in my experience as a blogger (although I'm hesitant to call myself that, given the negativity surrounding the word! ) you don't ASK to be invited to shows, you get asked. Someone has to have found your blog and deemed you 'worthy'. If a blogger whose writing isn't up to scratch is invited to a press night then that's the fault of the person who invited them. Not sure I like the idea that critics should have to pay for their own tickets to PN. They are there to do a job and so they need to be paid, just like any professional. That's the only big difference between critics and bloggers as far as I can see. People often say 'why should we listen to the views of bloggers?', but literally no one is forcing you to! If professional criticism dies out then that won't be the case anymore. A scary thought!
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Post by Phantom of London on May 20, 2016 12:13:31 GMT
"Since taking over as Artistic Director of the National Theatre, Rufus Norris has been stung by a string of poorly reviewed shows."
This is the first paragraph from the Daily Telegraph which the O/P posted the link, it is also factually wrong. For this makes me sick that journalists use their power to 'bully' whether it is for free tickets for shows, down to tax concessions on their salaries.
There was a recent case in New York where a programme host admitted that most shows she skipped in the interval, which is fine, but you then learn that her pair of tickets are paid by us and she didn't have to put a dime down.
This is wide spread in the industry where famous and prominent people get in free, where f we concessions ar given by the shows marketing budget which we pay for, through our tickets.
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Post by oxfordsimon on May 20, 2016 12:15:09 GMT
One of the key differences between an individual blog and press reviews is the fact that blogs are not edited or constrained by the regulation that applies to the traditional press.
It is important for there to be transparency as regards the ownership and control of any publication. Having clear editorial guidelines is also vital.
That is why it is important to preserve traditional professional reviews.
There is a role for the individual voice or collaborative blogs - but they should aspire to meet the same standards of those in the (dead wood) press
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2016 12:29:49 GMT
There is a role for the individual voice or collaborative blogs - but they should aspire to meet the same standards of those in the (dead wood) press like Quentin Letts, Tim Walker(?) and Ann Truman(?) I despair.
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Post by talkstageytome on May 20, 2016 12:37:56 GMT
One of the key differences between an individual blog and press reviews is the fact that blogs are not edited or constrained by the regulation that applies to the traditional press. It is important for there to be transparency as regards the ownership and control of any publication. Having clear editorial guidelines is also vital. That is why it is important to preserve traditional professional reviews. There is a role for the individual voice or collaborative blogs - but they should aspire to meet the same standards of those in the (dead wood) press Those who want to be held in high regard will adhere to the same rules that paid critics follow. I remember an uproar in the blogging community when journalists as well as a couple of bloggers posted their Barbican Hamlet reviews before PN. The general consensus is that everyone should follow the same rules in order to give the show a fair review, and obviously one of those rules is that reviewing previews is not good practice. An interesting little write up on the subject can be found here if you're interested... theatrebloggers.co.uk/blogging-guidelines
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2016 12:47:32 GMT
If we all give a little, we could raise the £350,000 urgently needed to fund long-term care provision for Michael Billington.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2016 12:56:47 GMT
The RSC regularly sells tickets for press nights for £10 if you keep an eye on their facebook page or twitter feed
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Post by Snciole on May 20, 2016 13:05:47 GMT
I went to the press night of National Theatre's Everyman as an audience member but the Olivier is big enough, I accept that the Southwark, Arcola etc will have to prioritise friends, family, critics and Jeremy Irons.
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Post by vickster51 on May 20, 2016 13:52:14 GMT
It's an interesting debate. Personally, I think that it's perfectly fair for a theatre to only give a critic one ticket. If they are being invited to review the production, whether their professional job or not, then ultimately they are there to work to produce that review and not there to combine it with a night out with their partner/friend etc. If they enjoy a show, they should go back and take people to see it to support it / the theatre if they are able to do so and should not expect a second free ticket.
As for more tickets being offered to bloggers, I'm also a blogger (is that a negative word now? Well, whether it is or not I'm not ashamed to say so) and I write my reviews for a number of reasons. (1)I love the theatre. It's my big passion and I enjoy sharing my thoughts with people and the blog lets me ramble for longer than a post on here would. (2) It means I take more time to really think about what I've just watched and absorb it more if I am going to write about it. (3) It's a record of shows I've seen that in years to come will be nice to look back on (although I don't review everything I see). (4) It's quite satisfying, I admit, if someone says they enjoy your reviews or says something nice about them, so it's nice to think their are some readers out there enjoying what I do.
If a theatre wanted to invite me along to review something, I'd be chuffed to pieces and would gladly take them up on their offer, but I don't feel any sense of entitlement to that perk just because I have a blog (and certainly wouldn't be expecting 2 tickets). I'll continue my reviews for the reasons above and if some day in the future, someone thinks I'm good enough to come along and review something then that will be lovely and simply a bonus.
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Post by bellboard27 on May 20, 2016 14:13:24 GMT
For Press Nights there can be good discounts or last minute offers as theatres want to appear as full as possible. I remember the Old Vic did some half price offers for a few remaining seats for The Crucible and there are currently cheaper than usual grand circle tickets for Aladdin for press night. I'm sure if I think about it I can remember other examples.
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Post by partytentdown on May 20, 2016 14:31:25 GMT
I think most theatres sell tickets to press nights, unless they're particularly tiny.
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Post by cherokee on May 20, 2016 16:26:45 GMT
Given how many freebies theatres do tend to give out, this does seem a little tight-fisted of the NT. Will they be charging the great and the good for their partners? I doubt it. To be fair, even cast members don't get freebies. They're allocated two tickets each for Press Night but they have to pay for them. They're not comps. If the cast don't get freebies, it seems fair that reviewers' mates have to pay as well.
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Post by Jon on May 20, 2016 17:06:11 GMT
I guess the only people who get free tickets for press nights are investors if it's a commercial production and producers plus one and anyone whose on the guest list.
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Post by Nicholas on May 21, 2016 3:45:54 GMT
Oh, pur-lease. If bloggers are proper critics, and if bloggers can write as incisively and critically as the paid bunch – and they can, that isn’t a discussion any more – then bloggers deserve to be treated with the same respect and (it’s crude to talk about, but must be said) financial upkeep as ‘proper critics’. Broadening the number of people who review a show, and broadening the types of people who write about theatre, isn’t just a nice initiative – it’s necessary, to stop theatre criticism either becoming the preserve of those rich enough to live a London-centric life with the disposable income of two or three trips a week, or culturally inhibiting to those people out there unsure of how to fund a career in criticism and whether self-publishing their own analysis is worth it.
So, firstly, are bloggers critics? Yes. Do critics pay for their seats? No. That’s that then.
But as for discriminating deserving and undeserving bloggers, I hope the process is lax. Someone recently got in hot water for saying most bloggers lack the ‘intellectual background’ of a proper critic, of an Ann Treneman (former political sketch-editor, no theatrical background) or a Quentin Letts (a massive arsehole). Actually, I agree – most bloggers don’t have the intellectual background. By intellectual background, I don’t mean uni education or form of schooling, I mean theatrical experiences – only by seeing, and reading about, as much theatre as you can can you achieve this. I instinctively don’t trust any blogger younger than 25, and even then consider 25 too young to be an expert on anything. It’s not that I don’t trust young people to be incisive and informed and have their areas of expertise (I like to think I’m young, and the Best Director at the Oliviers is only 30 himself), but I enjoy reading voices I know will develop into bona fide experts only through gaining the intellectual background I’m reading them develop as we speak. If some of these tickets, thus, are given to relatively embryonic blogs and bloggers, Rufus can help educate in this necessary intellectual development. Plus, the styles of writing happening in the interweb are varied, are personal, are individualistic, are trying to develop what a critic is – not always successfully, not always necessarily, but hey ho. Doubling the amount of ‘critics’ attending means doubling the voices heard, and replacing unnecessary chums with necessary challengers and innovators (as far as theatre criticism ever is innovative) can only be a good thing.
It’s worth mentioning, too, that I expect my critics to be London-centric region-attending culturally broad well-read thrice-weekly-theatregoers. I simply cannot expect my bloggers to be self-funded. I don’t think finance in and of itself is a huge issue – theatregoing can be a very cheap hobby, and I don’t expect my critics to eat well or live anywhere nice or have a social life – but it’s one that needs to be discussed, and also one that leads on to a broader cultural problem: why would I try and set myself up to be the next Tynan if money’s too tight for a secure disposable income? If we expect emerging bloggers to build up this intellectual background, we can’t expect them to pay for it all themselves, otherwise we’re limiting who can be a critic down to who can afford it, and that’s not just wrong but dangerous for the medium.
So look. These tickets are £20. £20 isn’t much. Most wannabe critics and established bloggers would happily pay £20 for a seat. You and I know £20’s expensive for most places. But actually, £20 is the ability to take a slight risk in what you attend. £20 is the cost of the new Simon Stephens book or Billington book or something educational. £20 is the price of a Megabus to Manchester to see Maxine Peake in Hamlet, or to Chichester to see Imelda Staunton in Gypsy. £20 is a week’s meals, something for the bills, something for the rent. £20 is hopefully a precedent being set that other theatres will follow, so £20 becomes £40 becomes £100 and the financial constraint on struggling young bloggers is lessened. Most importantly, £20 is the generosity, encouragement and respect of a major theatrical institution being given to upstart writers who need encouragement and respect to set them on their way. In taking a ticket away from the friend of a man who sells mugs with his face on them, and giving it to one of the first enthusiasts to have spotted Denise Gough, or someone passionate about their opinion of Here We Go but willing to discuss art and concede differences of opinions, Rufus Norris is (for the first time in his tenure) really doing what a National theatre should – trying to bolster the artistic discussion and outlook of the nation. In doing this, he may, too, just uncover the next Billington, the next Tynan, and who among us can begrudge that?
Or perhaps Rufus is indeed taking revenge on the critics whose reviews made People, Places and Things an award-winning sell-out West End transfer and gave Ma Rainey’s Black Bottom the Olivier. “Har har,” thinks Rufus, “Now Mark Shenton, Tim Walker and Dominic Cavendish now have to treat their cushy job like a job. They have to turn up on time alone, and if they want a social life they have to talk to their co-workers! That’ll show them for being nice to me!”
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2016 8:46:54 GMT
Can we start a campaign for free tickets for anyone who's posted at least [checks profile] 238 times on theatreboard? We're far more important and influential than bloggers and professional critics!
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2016 9:41:19 GMT
I really hate the way that journalists report the tiny behind-the-scenes details of their jobs like any of the rest of us should care. And I also hate that Telegraph article because actually the Churchill play didn't get bad reviews - it got a wide range of resposes from 0 stars to 5. I loathed it personally, but dividing opinion is something the NT should be doing every so often, rather than playing it safe. And a huge number of stuff put on in the past year have got rave reviews, so it's just nonsense. I've been critical of the NT sometimes recently but I am firmly on their side on this. Dreadful, stupid, inaccurate, biased reporting.
Feel better for getting that out of my system.
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Post by mallardo on May 21, 2016 10:19:06 GMT
Can we start a campaign for free tickets for anyone who's posted at least [checks profile] 238 times on theatreboard? We're far more important and influential than bloggers and professional critics!
I agree with you, xanderl, only I'd draw the line at somewhere around 203 posts.
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