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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2021 18:43:47 GMT
Is everyone else completely weirded out by what's happening in the United States? Before the election the right-wingers were proudly going on about how if they lost they'd accept it calmly while left-wingers would be rioting in the streets. Then they all leapt aboard the "it's a fraud" train despite there being absolutely no evidence, merely on Trump's say-so. Now they're claiming that the insurrection this week was clearly the work of antifa pretending to be Trump supporters because the you'll-never-take-our-guns Hillary-should-be-executed death's-too-good-for-BLM right-wingers are obviously too mature for violence. When Trump released a video belatedly criticising the riots they dismissed it as a deepfake. Each time I think they can't possibly be that delusional they manage to take it up a notch.
What will it take for them to lose faith and realise they're the bad guys? If Trump held a conference where he devoured a live baby and proclaimed the glory of Satan right in front of them they'd say "Now don't be hasty. Let's see where he's going with this".
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Post by alece10 on Jan 8, 2021 18:56:34 GMT
Sorry if this sounds a bit harsh and mean but to be honest I have enough on my plate to worry about here in the UK and trying to keep alive and healthy to worry too much about all the s**t going on over in the States.
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Post by Forrest on Jan 8, 2021 19:53:38 GMT
Is everyone else completely weirded out by what's happening in the United States? What will it take for them to lose faith and realise they're the bad guys? Yes, I find it all chilling, to be honest, but... Sadly, I think madness of the calibre we have seen in the past few days has been brewing for a while now, and really isn't surprising given the rhetoric Trump has been using and the audience he has proactively been targeting for years. It was only the question of when it might get slightly out of hand. The answer to your second question is: Nothing. They will never see this, because they simply refuse to prioritise common sense over the narrative that suits them (and that they have been fed, let us not forget, by the person in power). Why and how we got to this - and what do we do now to avoid a bigger disaster - is the question America should really be asking itself, urgently. On a happier note: we made it to Friday. And I'm waiting for Sainsbury's to deliver my B&J so that the weekend may officially commence. [Laugh of the day: Me: Sainsbury's, I need plain full-fat milk. Sainsbury's: We're delivering: Arla Lactofree Long Life Semi-Skimmed Dairy Drink 1L Me: Wait, what?!] |
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Post by edi on Jan 8, 2021 20:52:07 GMT
What will it take for them to lose faith and realise they're the bad guys? Stuff like that never happens. People never change their opinion once they decided on a particular side. People keep seeing only what they want to see and can always justify their actions, ideas. I think people truly believe they are right. That's what I learnt from life. |
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Post by Dawnstar on Jan 8, 2021 21:36:26 GMT
Sorry if this sounds a bit harsh and mean but to be honest I have enough on my plate to worry about here in the UK and trying to keep alive and healthy to worry too much about all the s**t going on over in the States. I feel similarly. In some ways it was nice to see another country being even more screwed up than the UK! |
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Post by lynette on Jan 8, 2021 23:14:11 GMT
They are having a rotten time over there with no leadership. However much we may moan justifiably at our leadership, we are nowhere near in the same mess. Have a chat to your US pals, I urge you. They veer between despair and delusion. Right from the start they were not alerted to the seriousness of the virus. Their whole mindset is off course. This is anecdotal of course but certainly what I have gleaned.
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Post by sfsusan on Jan 9, 2021 0:28:39 GMT
Is everyone else completely weirded out by what's happening in the United States? As an American watching this from London, yes, I'm pretty weirded out (not surprised, however). My favorite development is that some far-right Trump supporters are saying "Those rioters weren't Trump supporters, they were antifa doing a false flag operation." And other far-right Trump supporters are responding with anger that their glorious 'accomplishments' are being credited to antifa. The latest news of the weird (in a story by Business Insider) is that some European security officials are supposedly saying they believe Trump engineered this and instructed the police to provide minimal resistance. I'm so happy I'm in London and can view it from a distance!! |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2021 0:31:12 GMT
They are having a rotten time over there with no leadership. However much we may moan justifiably at our leadership, we are nowhere near in the same mess. Have a chat to your US pals, I urge you. They veer between despair and delusion. Right from the start they were not alerted to the seriousness of the virus. Their whole mindset is off course. This is anecdotal of course but certainly what I have gleaned. Thankfully all my US pals are liberal (and therefore Democrats given they don't really have another choice even though that party isn't remotely liberal) and have for the most part taken the virus seriously from the start, but they are absolutely despairing at the state of everything at the minute, it's awful. I really don't think we are much better though. Boris hasn't incited violence or denied wearing masks is a good thing, but he hasn't handled the pandemic well either. He doesn't get any praise from me for being the least worst of the two. |
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Post by peggs on Jan 9, 2021 1:55:46 GMT
Thankfully all my US pals are liberal (and therefore Democrats given they don't really have another choice even though that party isn't remotely liberal) and have for the most part taken the virus seriously from the start, but they are absolutely despairing at the state of everything at the minute, it's awful. I really don't think we are much better though. Boris hasn't incited violence or denied wearing masks is a good thing, but he hasn't handled the pandemic well either. He doesn't get any praise from me for being the least worst of the two. I'm rather thinking this. You know beside the fear of covid I'm worried that what has happened in the US could happen here much more easily than people seem to think. I'm not saying anyone is going to storm parliament but there is plenty of hate over here, a whole lot of people being whipped up against so many different 'others' and our leadership seems implicient in that. There's so much rhetoric of take back Britain etc that any criticism is now being flagged as 'anti patriotic'. I really fear where we're heading. |
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Post by londonpostie on Jan 9, 2021 2:56:55 GMT
They are having a rotten time over there with no leadership. However much we may moan justifiably at our leadership, we are nowhere near in the same mess. Have a chat to your US pals, I urge you. They veer between despair and delusion. Right from the start they were not alerted to the seriousness of the virus. Their whole mindset is off course. This is anecdotal of course but certainly what I have gleaned. I do think the national response in the USA to the virus is symptomatic of the extraordinary magnitude of that failed state. A shared language and cultural overlap can obscure a basket case built on an experimental form of government which should have been ended 200 years ago. No new country in history has followed that bizarre course.
I just had to smile at a photo of manicured muliti-millionaires in their £1000 suits, already vaccinated as the highest priority, cowering in Congress as some guy with horns was shouting through the corridors. If the battle was for dignity there was only one winner.
So many people are completely lost in their lives - indoctrinated beyond their reasoning, have no hope of any representation from the paid-for political class. And, increasingly, that loss and absence of representation is extending into the middle class. I feel nothing but sadness and empathy for the working people of that country.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2021 5:28:55 GMT
Trumpism is almost a religion now. Whenever things don't go his way his fans say that it's all part of a greater plan that will be revealed when the time is right. Sound familiar? Yesterday I heard someone claim that Trump permitted the certification of Biden's win because certifying an illegal election is a worse crime that fraudulent voting and Trump is letting his enemies dig themselves a deeper hole before he makes his move.
I think the only way out of this is for Trump to admit that he lost the election fair and square and his "stop the steal" campaign was a lie, but more and more it looks as though his privileged life of getting whatever he wants means he honestly believes that he really did win. What baffles me is the people around him — both colleagues and friends — who can't possibly be so deluded. What was their plan? Did they think he'd end up in power anyway? Did they think they could keep it under control? Did they think they could persuade millions of people that an entire election was fraudulent and then expect those people to just forget it and move on?
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Post by Someone in a tree on Jan 9, 2021 6:24:17 GMT
The situation in America is dire and who knew that Trumpism would go this way! Great he is temporarily banned from FB & Twitter but he still has his orange wotsit fingers on the nuclear button... Thankfully he lost he lost the election but will him and his retched family sink away?
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Post by edi on Jan 9, 2021 21:16:06 GMT
I just had to smile at a photo of manicured muliti-millionaires in their £1000 suits, already vaccinated as the highest priority, cowering in Congress as some guy with horns was shouting through the corridors. If the battle was for dignity there was only one winner.
So many people are completely lost in their lives - indoctrinated beyond their reasoning, have no hope of any representation from the paid-for political class.
I don't have any hope of representation from the paid for political class neither in the US nor here in the UK. More so here in the UK. However, whatever my opinion is of politicians, there were no winners in that battle at the Capitol. What the rioters did was disgraceful regardless the price tag of the suits the politicians and other workers wore. Nobody, not even the privileged deserves unruly & armed mob at their place of work. |
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Post by londonpostie on Jan 9, 2021 21:29:56 GMT
I didn't know they were armed. We must read different media.
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Post by edi on Jan 9, 2021 22:08:59 GMT
I didn't know they were armed. We must read different media. the media was reporting on some pipe bombs. Excuse me if those are not called "arms", English is not my first language. But it is still scary. EDIT: I just did a quick search and they were apparently armed. The source is the BBC (I trust it) and twitter (not so sure) |
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Post by londonpostie on Jan 9, 2021 22:43:01 GMT
I didn't know they were armed. We must read different media. the media was reporting on some pipe bombs. Excuse me if those are not called "arms", English is not my first language. But it is still scary. EDIT: I just did a quick search and they were apparently armed. The source is the BBC (I trust it) and twitter (not so sure) Any links would be great, quoted text, the usual idea. Thanks. |
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Post by kathryn on Jan 10, 2021 0:10:56 GMT
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Post by vdcni on Jan 10, 2021 7:20:26 GMT
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Post by londonpostie on Jan 10, 2021 15:48:35 GMT
If these people were 'insurrectionists' what were the Countryside Alliance when they 'invaded' the chamber in the House of Commons?
And what of Labour MPs who got elected 'respecting the referendum' and then switched sides to Peoples Vote? They literally voted against the will of the people of the country and the people who directly elected them ... Another perspective: |
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Post by vdcni on Jan 10, 2021 17:41:30 GMT
You know people died during this and the vast majority of people are taking this very seriously and that there is credible evidence of collusion from official sources.
And let's point out once again that that was an advisory referendum and we live in a Parliamentary democracy. MPs have never been expected to vote in line with their constituencies opinions on every issue.
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Post by kathryn on Jan 10, 2021 17:43:24 GMT
They entered the building to delay the confirmation of Joe Biden so that it could not take place by the deadline required, in order to prevent him becoming President-Elect, because they are convinced that the election result should not stand.
They carried weapons and zip ties - which suggests they were intending to take hostages.
They may have had the cooperation of members of the police.
Five people have now died as a direct result.
They were encouraged by an politician who wants to overturn the election result in order to stay in power.
It was an attempted coup.
It is utterly ridiculous to regard it as anything else.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2021 18:03:06 GMT
If these people were 'insurrectionists' what were the Countryside Alliance when they 'invaded' the chamber in the House of Commons? Perhaps my memory is faulty but I don't recall the Countryside Alliance building a gallows to hang the deputy PM, threatening people with guns, making pipe bombs, attempting to overthrow the government because they were told the election was a lie, or beating a policeman to death with a fire extinguisher. Mind you, it was 16 years ago so I could be wrong. |
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Post by Phantom of London on Jan 10, 2021 18:33:14 GMT
Impeached.
And President Trump will be the first President to be convicted and impeached, momentum will gather in the Republican ranks to have him impeached, they don’t want him running as a Republican or Independent in 2024. In their heart of hearts they know stolen elections are a load of cods wallop and tiring of all the outlandish conspiracy theories. Especially as the Republican have done disastrous at the elections. Wasn’t it Winston Churchill who once said ‘your opposition sit opposite you, but your enemy sit behind you.’
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Post by kathryn on Jan 10, 2021 18:47:01 GMT
We can only hope so. Because if they keep on down this path it surely cannot end well.
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Post by londonpostie on Jan 10, 2021 19:20:07 GMT
If these people were 'insurrectionists' what were the Countryside Alliance when they 'invaded' the chamber in the House of Commons? Perhaps my memory is faulty but I don't recall the Countryside Alliance building a gallows to hang the deputy PM, threatening people with guns, making pipe bombs, attempting to overthrow the government because they were told the election was a lie, or beating a policeman to death with a fire extinguisher. Mind you, it was 16 years ago so I could be wrong. Try to talk about one point at a time, otherwise you go all *internet" on people and get confused with silly-arsed' photo ops' for social media. You see, and I hope this doesn't come as too huge a shock, but it wasn't a real "gallows" and they weren't really looking to find VP Mike Pence in the first place, in order to hang him from your "gallows". It was designed for social media, which of course you responded to with horror.
When you do this you just make yourself look f***ing stupid again.
Your point was, iirc, "impeachment". Best stick to that and try not to confuse too may separate strands of a complex event.
Fwiw, the comparison between two sets of protestors breaking into the heart of their respective political systems is interesting, not least in the media treatment of one as opposed to the other.
And in case you have forgotten already and been horrified by a further piece of social media designed specifically for reaction, it still wasn't a "gallows".
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