4,156 posts
|
Post by kathryn on Jul 30, 2020 15:27:24 GMT
What comedians were you thinking of? Trying to think of US comedians I know. I do like the look of Jon Oliver on the show Last Week Tonight. I think he is very funny Jon Stewart tried for a movie career, I believe, but didn't do well. I sometimes like John Oliver, but he can be a bit OTT. That does make me realize that part of the problem could be that I would only recognize the ones that appear on late-night tv, and not those currently working the stand-up clubs. Well there's your problem! You're simply not recognising the comedians who are doing other work because you've not seen them do comedy. It's a side effect of audience segmentation and 'narrowcasting'. People now only see a very small slice of what is happening. That's why all the obvious examples people are coming up with are older comedians who worked in the 'broadcast' era. The Uk still has a 'broadcast' culture (at least for a little while longer) - the most popular, most-watched channels, by both numbers of viewers and time spent watching - are still the 'terrestrial' 5. |
|
|
|
Post by sfsusan on Jul 30, 2020 15:35:08 GMT
It is worth bearing in mind that the U.K. live comedy market is actually bigger and more lucrative than the US live comedy market. It’s the biggest live comedy market in the world, by ticket sales. Do the UK live comedy performances appeal to a broad audience... ages, classes, cultures? And then if they’re good on the live comedy circuit there’s a whole load of panel shows who will try them out as a guest, and they might be asked to try their hands at writing the odd sketch, or presenting a TV show because they are a familiar face and known to be funny and engaging. There does seem to be a lot more comedy/comedians on UK tv in panel shows, presenting, etc. than in the US. (As opposed to performing, I suppose I mean.) I suspect (although don't know for sure) that our biggest equivalents are late-night chat shows... the other US shows I can think of where comics appear (Saturday Night Live, Whose Line Is It Anyway?) are performances rather than appearances. |
|
7,189 posts
|
Post by Jon on Jul 30, 2020 15:44:02 GMT
Olivia Colman for many years mostly did comedy roles, it wasn't until she starred in Tyrannosaur that was able to fully showcase her dramatic ability.
|
|
|
|
Post by sfsusan on Jul 30, 2020 15:48:40 GMT
Does this happen in the US? I don't know much about US quizes. To some extent, yes. There's Drew Carey hosting 'The Price is Right', Steve Harvey of 'Family Feud' and Wayne Brady of 'Let's Make a Deal' (although I'd never heard of him before he took over the show). The other big game show hosts (Alex Trebek of 'Jeopardy!', Pat Sajak of 'Wheel of Fortune') are mostly famous for those shows. (Although they've been hosting them long enough that any previous careers may well have been forgotten.) One of the most telling differences is we don't call them 'quiz' shows, since there's often very little knowledge necessary... we call them 'game' shows. (And we don't have a tradition of pub quizzes, which may also account for the difference.) I've also noticed that prize money on your shows seems to be much smaller than in the US, and the volume is MUCH quieter! We encourage screaming, hooting, etc. with our studio audiences... which have people who warm up the audience and then stand to the side and encourage cheering at appropriate moments (along with giant APPLAUSE signs). |
|
|
|
Post by sfsusan on Jul 30, 2020 15:52:18 GMT
I suppose you could call the Sister Act films 'comedies'? Yes, I would, anyway. Along with Jumping Jack Flash, Burglar, Toy Story and some others. |
|
|
|
Post by sfsusan on Jul 30, 2020 15:55:44 GMT
Well there's your problem! You're simply not recognising the comedians who are doing other work because you've not seen them do comedy. Yes, that's probably true. I guess what I'm saying is, as a casual tv viewer I see more comedians in multiple roles in UK tv than on US tv. |
|
7,189 posts
|
Post by Jon on Jul 30, 2020 16:04:51 GMT
To some extent, yes. There's Drew Carey hosting 'The Price is Right', Steve Harvey of 'Family Feud' and Wayne Brady of 'Let's Make a Deal' (although I'd never heard of him before he took over the show). The other big game show hosts (Alex Trebek of 'Jeopardy!', Pat Sajak of 'Wheel of Fortune') are mostly famous for those shows. (Although they've been hosting them long enough that any previous careers may well have been forgotten.) One of the most telling differences is we don't call them 'quiz' shows, since there's often very little knowledge necessary... we call them 'game' shows. (And we don't have a tradition of pub quizzes, which may also account for the difference.) I've also noticed that prize money on your shows seems to be much smaller than in the US, and the volume is MUCH quieter! We encourage screaming, hooting, etc. with our studio audiences... which have people who warm up the audience and then stand to the side and encourage cheering at appropriate moments (along with giant APPLAUSE signs). I know Wayne Brady because he played Barney's brother in How I Met Your Mother and also does Whose Line is it Anyway? UK gameshows have lower prize money but contestants get the full amount whereas I think it's taxed in the US. Many gameshows don't have audiences especially if they air in daytime. On Epic Gameshow which was supersized versions of gameshows like The Price is Right and Play Your Cards Right (which I believe is Cards Sharks in the US), they did have audiences yelling out 'higher' or 'lower' |
|
|
|
Post by sfsusan on Jul 30, 2020 16:18:31 GMT
whereas I think it's taxed in the US. Yes, it is. I've heard stories of contestants who win big money prizes having the option to take a cash equivalent. And I believe the shows even have to withhold the estimated tax amount for winnings over a certain value. (Just like casinos do...) I know Wayne Brady because he played Barney's brother in How I Met Your Mother Interesting! |
|
4,156 posts
|
Post by kathryn on Jul 30, 2020 16:34:01 GMT
To some extent, yes. There's Drew Carey hosting 'The Price is Right', Steve Harvey of 'Family Feud' and Wayne Brady of 'Let's Make a Deal' (although I'd never heard of him before he took over the show). The other big game show hosts (Alex Trebek of 'Jeopardy!', Pat Sajak of 'Wheel of Fortune') are mostly famous for those shows. (Although they've been hosting them long enough that any previous careers may well have been forgotten.) One of the most telling differences is we don't call them 'quiz' shows, since there's often very little knowledge necessary... we call them 'game' shows. (And we don't have a tradition of pub quizzes, which may also account for the difference.) I've also noticed that prize money on your shows seems to be much smaller than in the US, and the volume is MUCH quieter! We encourage screaming, hooting, etc. with our studio audiences... which have people who warm up the audience and then stand to the side and encourage cheering at appropriate moments (along with giant APPLAUSE signs). I know Wayne Brady because he played Barney's brother in How I Met Your Mother and also does Whose Line is it Anyway? UK gameshows have lower prize money but contestants get the full amount whereas I think it's taxed in the US. Many gameshows don't have audiences especially if they air in daytime. On Epic Gameshow which was supersized versions of gameshows like The Price is Right and Play Your Cards Right (which I believe is Cards Sharks in the US), they did have audiences yelling out 'higher' or 'lower' We have a totally different quiz/game show culture in the UK than the US. It's just not about the value of the prize at all on most of them - that's why the prizes on some very popular shows are very low monetary value or stuff the contestants obviously don't need (a set of dictionaries on Countdown!), or the final challenge is very hard to win (like Pointless). It's about getting to be on TV/'bragging rights', and the experience of doing it. It's 'for fun'. This is one of the reasons why UK comedy panel show formats have never taken off in the US. They're genuinely not about 'winning' - the points systems are usually totally arbitrary and the 'rules' often don't make sense - their entertainment value is all in the taking park. Being funny is more important than 'winning the game', being funny *is* winning the game. That just doesn't translate to US TV culture. |
|
7,189 posts
|
Post by Jon on Jul 30, 2020 17:24:55 GMT
We have a totally different quiz/game show culture in the UK than the US. It's just not about the value of the prize at all on most of them - that's why the prizes on some very popular shows are very low monetary value or stuff the contestants obviously don't need (a set of dictionaries on Countdown!), or the final challenge is very hard to win (like Pointless). It's about getting to be on TV/'bragging rights', and the experience of doing it. It's 'for fun'. This is one of the reasons why UK comedy panel show formats have never taken off in the US. They're genuinely not about 'winning' - the points systems are usually totally arbitrary and the 'rules' often don't make sense - their entertainment value is all in the taking park. Being funny is more important than 'winning the game', being funny *is* winning the game. That just doesn't translate to US TV culture. I'm sure people do go on gameshows in the hope of winning some money but I agree for many it's not the end goal. |
|
|
|
Post by londonpostie on Jul 30, 2020 17:44:23 GMT
Well there's your problem! You're simply not recognising the comedians who are doing other work because you've not seen them do comedy. Yes, that's probably true. I guess what I'm saying is, as a casual tv viewer I see more comedians in multiple roles in UK tv than on US tv. In the UK, why do comedians are good actors? It's becasue most are professionally trained actors first (from the drama school system) - and brilliantly trained, who then started to make more money as stand-up's while they were jobbing actors (as part of a huge multi-discipline eco-system). They are are trained, professional performers first.
Stand-up's are generally excellent in any tv role becasue they are so quick-witted and able to deal with whatever arises - inc. talk show hosts, game show hosts, et al.
Classic example of right now, this summer and this week is Michaela Coel, who went to drama school, did stand up, wrote drama, acted, random whatever, etc, before this huge success:
These aren't single, linear routes. In London, at least, you do them all and see what sticks best.
|
|
|
|
Post by jojo on Jul 30, 2020 18:14:16 GMT
I've heard a few of the American comedians who do the UK circuit talk about how we have a culture of going out, and not just at the weekend to see live entertainment, which isn't matched back in the US and Canada. Katheryn Ryan has talked about it a few times. And it's not just in the cities, there are enough people in enough medium sized towns willing to attend the local theatre to see a fairly famous comedian on a week night to make touring a good earner.
I've always thought the US seems more keen to pigeon hole all kinds of arts, which I've noticed mainly with music, with radio stations playing just one genre. This can be filed under 'well they would say that', but I have heard a lot of successful British actors say they would rather stay in the UK than have a 'Hollywood' career, so even if they sometimes do those roles for the experience, and the money, they think they can live a better life overall by spending most time and doing most work in the UK. There's a case to be made that if they want to keep working, then it's just practical to fill in gaps between fancy film, and quality tv with theatre work, but there does seem to be a culture of wanting to stay in touch with their roots.
There definitely seems to be a shift in thinking in the US that big stars can now do TV for more interesting roles with more fleshed out characters, but it still feels like they need to justify that decision, rather than it being something that a successful working actor would normally do.
|
|
|
|
Post by sfsusan on Jul 31, 2020 11:19:49 GMT
They're genuinely not about 'winning' - the points systems are usually totally arbitrary and the 'rules' often don't make sense - their entertainment value is all in the taking part. Being funny is more important than 'winning the game', being funny *is* winning the game. That just doesn't translate to US TV culture. That would explain why QI didn't do well in the States. (I love the show, although some of the guest panelists recently are just... odd. I couldn't tell if one young woman was playing the dumb blonde or if she really was dim.) we have a culture of going out, and not just at the weekend to see live entertainment, which isn't matched back in the US and Canada. I wonder if the cost of going out is cheaper in the UK (aside from West End prices)? |
|
|
|
Post by londonpostie on Jul 31, 2020 19:21:58 GMT
Outside the west end, and the top tier of off-west, there is a very high correlation between live entertainment of any kind, and pubs.
Couple of nights ago I was laughing out loud looking at a list of pubs Kate Bush played as a youngster - absolute sh*tholes  |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2020 19:58:50 GMT
Outside the west end, and the top tier of off-west, there is a very high correlation between live entertainment of any kind, and pubs.
Couple of nights ago I was laughing out loud looking at a list of pubs Kate Bush played as a youngster - absolute sh*tholes Look at the dives The Beatles played in Hamburg. Maybe that is why Kate never played live for all those years. |
|
