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Post by djp on Jul 30, 2020 23:09:10 GMT
Possibly. It also says something about this government's - how can I put this? - cultural sensitivity that they announced this measure about two hours before the beginning of Eid. I'm not suggesting additional measures of some kind are not required, but this really doesn't seem to have been thought through at all. And - re: Eid - the numbers have been tracking the same way for long enough that it would have been considerate to give the many, many families in the region planning celebrations a little more notice that their plans might have to change. Suspect the government has panicked that it might get attacked on the right for not cracking down before EID. At best a religious festival is a tertiary factor. You act as soon as you can when the figures come in . If you don't your opponents start calculating how many people you killed by delaying. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2020 23:23:29 GMT
The only people that I see wearing masks around here (I’m in one of those lockdown tightening areas) are from the muslim community - taxi drivers, food establishments etc. All their customers, nothing, Yet again, public facing workers paying the price for those who can’t be bothered. The government would do better by mandating people to wear masks instead of trusting their ‘common sense’, rather than blaming the workers who are being put in danger by them. I've noticed that here in London Hijab wearing Muslim women were one of the first groups to be widely seen wearing masks in shops and on Public Transport. I know from a neighbours who keeps getting taxi's to go shopping that all drivers seem to be wearing them now - haven't looked in the takeaways recently but they mostly have screens up so not sure if the staff need to wear masks.
Shop workers need to be mandated to wear masks - I went to Oxford Street today and only in the Disney Store was every member of staff wearing a mask - I can understand not on the till if a screen is protecting everyone but on the floor they should be mandatory.
In my part of London (which has a relatively large Muslim community), I’ve actually noticed the opposite. There are, of course, exceptions but it seems to be mainly older folk from minority ethnic backgrounds who are wearing face coverings - anyone under, say, 40 frequently isn’t bothering. And there is next to no social distancing to offset the risk in some shops and pretty much all restaurants/fast food restaurants (where groups tend to gather outside to eat). I say this not to point any fingers of blame - just offering a different experience than some others are reporting here. I see plenty of people from all backgrounds behaving the same way! |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2020 23:23:47 GMT
The only people that I see wearing masks around here (I’m in one of those lockdown tightening areas) are from the muslim community - taxi drivers, food establishments etc. All their customers, nothing, Yet again, public facing workers paying the price for those who can’t be bothered. The government would do better by mandating people to wear masks instead of trusting their ‘common sense’, rather than blaming the workers who are being put in danger by them. I've noticed that here in London Hijab wearing Muslim women were one of the first groups to be widely seen wearing masks in shops and on Public Transport. I know from a neighbours who keeps getting taxi's to go shopping that all drivers seem to be wearing them now - haven't looked in the takeaways recently but they mostly have screens up so not sure if the staff need to wear masks.
Shop workers need to be mandated to wear masks - I went to Oxford Street today and only in the Disney Store was every member of staff wearing a mask - I can understand not on the till if a screen is protecting everyone but on the floor they should be mandatory.
I've noticed less Muslim women wearing traditional face coverings when I've been about in recent months. So I'm assuming they are wearing masks instead. Although the face coverings would in effect count as masks but may not fit so flush to the face. It might be that if they are used to wearing these coverings then switching to a mask may not be such a shock as some people myself are finding it. There was a good piece on the BBC Midlands News tonight about making Mosques safe as Covid safe as possible. I honestly do believe that the vast majority of Asian people are following the rules probably even more firmly than white people do. Given the likely higher mortality rate in their demographic, the fields a lot of people in this bracket work in and even the respect they have for their elders. A few younger people in this demographic may have been less careful than the older people but no more so than in any other ethnicity. Sadly the cultural set of of a lot of Asian families may have exacerbated the spread of cases if one tested positive. I do feel sorry for a lot of Muslims as they had Ramadan and the first EID screwed over thanks to China. I hope they can have a proper celebration with this second EID. |
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Post by djp on Jul 30, 2020 23:28:05 GMT
Yes, and it says it doesn't respect age or depend on how bad your symptoms were.
Government needs to publicise this . people arguing about relative damage from lock down and covid , and that young people are a relatively low risk , need to know that this does all sorts of damage , and may not care how old you are , or how bad your attack was.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2020 23:30:10 GMT
Plus we had the whinging hairdresser moaning about having to quarantine for 14 days when she returned from Spain and she had only been reopened for 3 weeks. I'd assume holiday was prebooked before outbreak otherwise she'd get little sympathy. You mean someone who’s had their livelihood taken away from them for 4 months and all the stress that brings, who finally thinks she gets to take a bit of a breather and have some fun and then has to forego money for two additional weeks? I’d be a ‘whinger’ in her shoes too. I’ve been avoiding this thread because of these sorts of callous posts but I only have to read this final page to see comments like this one and the one suggesting that we should leave struggling children behind, of which there are an extremely large number in this county and thinking there’s not is either huge naivety or wilful ignorance, and rush forward with those who have technology and privilege at their fingertips. It’s seems very sad to me that even at times like this people can’t be kind. The hairdresser who had been sat at home for over 3 months no doubt wanting to re-open and who then just a couple of weeks later decides to go on holiday. Again if she had it pre-booked I can understand her annoyance but if she decided to book it and shut up shop so quickly after reopening I have zero sympathy. Schools meals and school places have been provided for key workers' children and the widely used "vulnerable category" too. |
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Post by sf on Jul 30, 2020 23:34:41 GMT
Suspect the government has panicked that it might get attacked on the right for not cracking down before EID. At best a religious festival is a tertiary factor. You act as soon as you can when the figures come in . If you don't your opponents start calculating how many people you killed by delaying. And if the government had acted as soon as they could when the figures started heading upwards again, that would be a reasonable explanation. Given that the case numbers have been climbing in nine out of ten boroughs in Greater Manchester, I do find it interesting, as someone who lived in Oldham until the end of last year, that Oldham council were a couple of days ahead of the government (and the Mayor of Greater Manchester) in stepping in to take measures to bring the infection rate down.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2020 23:47:26 GMT
Yes, and it says it doesn't respect age or depend on how bad your symptoms were.
Government needs to publicise this . people arguing about relative damage from lock down and covid , and that young people are a relatively low risk , need to know that this does all sorts of damage , and may not care how old you are , or how bad your attack was.
I’d want to see a lot more research/study on this before I started panicking. The heart stuff sounds more concerning than the potential neurological damage reported in the Spanish studies. For example, the first study only took in hospital patients, who are of course more likely to have had severe cases of covid. Of these, the majority seem to have reported things like headaches, dizziness, insomnia - some of which are part and parcel of a virus, others caused by stress (and if being hospitalised with covid isn’t stressful, I don’t know what is!). The reported strokes are clearly more worrying but we aren’t told of the age/medical histories of those who suffered these. It may be they’d have had them anyway, covid or no. There is clearly a lot more research to be done, but I think most scientists would agree more people are low risk than high. Think of the vast numbers who may have been asymptomatic - if they suddenly start reporting these knock-on effects, maybe then I’ll start worrying. But not just yet. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2020 23:59:14 GMT
At best a religious festival is a tertiary factor. You act as soon as you can when the figures come in . If you don't your opponents start calculating how many people you killed by delaying. And if the government had acted as soon as they could when the figures started heading upwards again, that would be a reasonable explanation. Given that the case numbers have been climbing in nine out of ten boroughs in Greater Manchester, I do find it interesting, as someone who lived in Oldham until the end of last year, that Oldham council were a couple of days ahead of the government (and the Mayor of Greater Manchester) in stepping in to take measures to bring the infection rate down.
Good to see Oldham using the powers granted by the government to local authorities so proactively. Sadly, it appears Blackburn with Darwen took similar measures weeks ago, but they’re still affected by today’s announcement: www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jul/14/blackburn-with-darwen-council-takes-action-to-avoid-local-lockdown |
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Post by talkingheads on Jul 31, 2020 9:10:29 GMT
Also in what world is announcing a lockdown that affects millions of people on Twitter two hours before it happens even remotely OK?
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Post by Someone in a tree on Jul 31, 2020 9:19:18 GMT
But if they didn't act fast then we'd be criticising them for that.
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Post by jojo on Jul 31, 2020 9:21:04 GMT
It's pathetic that they left it so late, but I'd rather they did a last minute announcement than hold off introducing the new rules out of fear of being mocked for the short notice.
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Post by basdfg on Jul 31, 2020 9:21:43 GMT
I suspect the usual suspects in the press are now driving around the North aiming to catch a mosque not enforcing social distancing.
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Post by basdfg on Jul 31, 2020 9:33:16 GMT
They doing this to make sure they not blamed.
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Post by lichtie on Jul 31, 2020 9:37:17 GMT
But if they didn't act fast then we'd be criticising them for that. There's acting fast, and then there's sending out a public health notification by Twitter late in the evening... What's so hard about making a decision and being able to defend it in person for the early evening news bulletins for example? What magically happened in the 4 hours between 5 and 9pm for example? This is exactly the kind of poor messaging we've come to expect from this government (reinforced by the fact Hancock couldn't even clearly say this morning whether someone from one of these areas could visit a house in a non-restricted area, and appeared to contradict his own regulations twice, but in a different fashion each time). |
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Post by basdfg on Jul 31, 2020 9:47:57 GMT
Racial tensions are not perfect in many of the areas affected and this talk will only make things worse.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2020 9:48:06 GMT
At best a religious festival is a tertiary factor. You act as soon as you can when the figures come in . If you don't your opponents start calculating how many people you killed by delaying. And if the government had acted as soon as they could when the figures started heading upwards again, that would be a reasonable explanation. Given that the case numbers have been climbing in nine out of ten boroughs in Greater Manchester, I do find it interesting, as someone who lived in Oldham until the end of last year, that Oldham council were a couple of days ahead of the government (and the Mayor of Greater Manchester) in stepping in to take measures to bring the infection rate down.
Andy Burham has said he supported the lockdown and we know what the problem areas were but I hadn't heard anything about some areas going into premptive measures. Authorty had been delegated but if strong enough action hasn't been taken then central government has to step in. Although I am a Tory voter I also ive in Bimingham which in large parts is as multicultural or more so than the affected extended Greater Manchester Area so I have huge sympathy for the many Muslims who are celebrating EID today. Some may well have been travelling to see friends and family when the announcements were made. The local news is on the two biggest TV networks between 6 and 7pm so at worse get the announcement out then not on social media which a lot of people may not use. |
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Post by theatreian on Jul 31, 2020 10:03:22 GMT
When I got back from Devon at the weekend into Birmingham I noticed the lack of wearing face coverings on public transport and I would say 95% of those not wearing were from a BAME background. That is not being racist it is just stating the facts as I observed them. At least there seems to be more local action now with figures more accessible on a local area. Let's hope it can be better controlled with these local measures.
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Post by stevej678 on Jul 31, 2020 10:06:08 GMT
Racial tensions are not perfect in many of the areas affected and this talk will only make things worse.
Any proof to back up your claim that "Racial tensions are not perfect in many of the areas affected"? |
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Post by basdfg on Jul 31, 2020 10:19:13 GMT
Looks like theatre reopening is postponed.
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Post by talkingheads on Jul 31, 2020 10:21:20 GMT
Looks like theatre reopening is postponed. A lot of cinemas are reopening today. I guess we won't know more until the Goverment tweets it two hours before everything shuts again. |
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Post by stevej678 on Jul 31, 2020 10:22:41 GMT
Boris is giving a press briefing with Chris Whitty at 12pm.
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Post by basdfg on Jul 31, 2020 10:24:20 GMT
Racial tensions are not perfect in many of the areas affected and this talk will only make things worse.
Any proof to back up your claim that "Racial tensions are not perfect in many of the areas affected"? I mean Racial relations - it's known that places like Oldham and Bradford still have issues in this area despite noticeable improvements - Dog whistling has a certain level of appeal there.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2020 11:03:20 GMT
Racial tensions are not perfect in many of the areas affected and this talk will only make things worse.
Any proof to back up your claim that "Racial tensions are not perfect in many of the areas affected"? Is there any proof that they are not taking things seriously. The effect this pandemic has had on BAME population in UK has been devestating and with so many from this demographic working in high risk jobs an even bigger proportion of them will have, know friends or family who work in them soif anything that sector would be even more careful. Sure there are demographics in BAME as well as Whites where you have large social gatherings and rules may not be followed these are often the younger people ( I don't like pointing the finger but you don't get many all night raves, house parties at Community Centres or the local Social Clubs) |
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Post by basdfg on Jul 31, 2020 11:18:49 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2020 11:24:52 GMT
This is a ridiculous response, they are blaming the provider and exonerating the customer. The virus is spread by people not wearing masks and/or distancing. Multigenerational households are just the early warning system, what happens there, will be followed elsewhere weeks later. They are not the driver of transmission, they are the victim. They need to come here up North and see how the pubs are not able, or are unwilling to, enforce regulations, how shops, transport and takeaways cannot implement a rule when they have little legal power,
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