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Post by firefingers on Jul 11, 2021 18:18:29 GMT
Society is built on restrictions, Matthew. Legal ones, societal constraints, moral issues etx all guide restrictions on how you live your life. What is special about wearing a mask for ten minutes in Tesco? Why not do away with them all in search of your true freedom. Why not leave your trousers on while having a poo, you only take them off because society has restricted you saying it is wrong to waddle aroundwith your arse covered in sh*te. Or stab someone, can't have these rules holding us back. Sure it's a rather messy metaphor but my point remains, how is this one restriction something that must be removed at all costs, but you are happy with all the others? Eh? I'll say it slower. People are saying we can't live with restrictions forever. We literally live with restrictions every day, on what we can do and say. That's how society functions. And no one will explain to me what is different about mask wearing compared to the rest.
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Post by firefingers on Jul 11, 2021 18:21:40 GMT
Society is built on restrictions, Matthew. Legal ones, societal constraints, moral issues etx all guide restrictions on how you live your life. What is special about wearing a mask for ten minutes in Tesco? Why not do away with them all in search of your true freedom. Why not leave your trousers on while having a poo, you only take them off because society has restricted you saying it is wrong to waddle aroundwith your arse covered in sh*te. Or stab someone, can't have these rules holding us back. Sure it's a rather messy metaphor but my point remains, how is this one restriction something that must be removed at all costs, but you are happy with all the others? Huh? I'm not arguing that this restriction should be removed at all costs. I'm saying that many people think it's too early to remove the restrictions (including me), but that it's a strawman argument to say that this means people want the current restrictions to last forever. Sorry, I was more using your post as a jumping off point as opposed to a critique of what you were saying. Didn't word it very well.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jul 11, 2021 18:36:22 GMT
I'll say it slower. People are saying we can't live with restrictions forever. We literally live with restrictions every day, on what we can do and say. That's how society functions. And no one will explain to me what is different about mask wearing compared to the rest. I agree, couldn't work out if you were saying that
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Post by nick on Jul 11, 2021 18:46:15 GMT
Other countries accept mask wearing, not for covid per se but for other airborne nasties - flu and cold for example.
If we come out of this with a society that is a little more aware of the importance of hand washing, sneezing into a hankie, not coughing over people and food, taking time off work when you are contagious so the whole office doesn't catch it and, YES, mask wearing, then that, to me, is a positive.
We have become complacent that the health service will keep us healthy all the time. But, for example, time is running out for antibiotics to work. We need to rethink our attitude and this pandemic has certainly given us a wake up call.
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Post by poster J on Jul 11, 2021 20:34:08 GMT
There's a massive difference in disruption between lockdowns and masks/distancing. It doesn't have to be "all or nothing". No, but the virus will always exist. So do we keep on like this forever? Or just wait until it moves far enough down the news cycle? We. Are. Not. Talking. About. Forever. The only point is that not everyone has even been offered their second jab yet. The question you should be asking is why is it safe to lift restrictions before that, given it is apparently the vaccine programme that is the reason things can be opened up. No-one has yet explained the logic of that...
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Post by hitmewithurbethshot on Jul 11, 2021 21:14:50 GMT
Going to throw in my 2p. I'm in my mid-twenties, reasonably healthy and fully vaccinated (since August as I took part in the Oxford trial). I've also been wearing a mask everywhere and avoiding large crowds, my only outings are alone to the theatre. Despite this I tested positive this morning and have spent the day feeling like I've been hit by a train. I am 100% in favour of masks and other restrictions sticking around until everyone's had the oppurtunity to be fully jabbed, and if I can get it and feel this awful I dread to think how it would affect someone more vulnerable
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Post by eulenspiegel on Jul 11, 2021 21:28:24 GMT
1st - are you sure you got the vaccine and not the placebo?
2nd - after a year Astra very likely lost much of its strength especially against Delta variant - you should have gotten a booster shot
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Post by hitmewithurbethshot on Jul 11, 2021 21:41:13 GMT
1st - are you sure you got the vaccine and not the placebo? 2nd - after a year Astra very likely lost much of its strength especially against Delta variant - you should have gotten a booster shot Don't think I've been offered a booster shot, and we all got told around May whether we got the actual vaccine or not
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Post by marob on Jul 11, 2021 21:43:22 GMT
The scenes in central London today show exactly why the British (not just English) public shouldn’t be left to their own devices with covid. Or maybe I’m wrong and the chap with the flare hanging out of his arse is scrupulous about his hand hygiene…
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Post by theatreian on Jul 11, 2021 22:50:58 GMT
Unfortunately that is the British relationship with alcohol.
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Post by fluxcapacitor on Jul 12, 2021 6:54:08 GMT
Unfortunately that is the British relationship with alcohol. I disagree. I totally agree that the British in general may have an unhealthy relationship with alcohol through binge drinking, but the scenes last night are down to a minority of English men. You don’t see anything like that when Wales win the Six Nations, or when Andy Murray plays the Wimbledon tennis final. And you also don’t see things play out like that from English fans in any other sport. It’s English football culture’s relationship with alcohol, and it’s gross.
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Post by theatreian on Jul 12, 2021 8:47:50 GMT
It’s English football culture’s relationship with alcohol I think in normal circumstances some Spanish holiday resorts would disagree. The British have a terrible reputation with drinking that has nothing to do with football. You only have to look at any city centre at weekends and both sexes are as bad as eachother.
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Post by poster J on Jul 12, 2021 9:06:18 GMT
It’s English football culture’s relationship with alcohol I think in normal circumstances some Spanish holiday resorts would disagree. The British have a terrible reputation with drinking that has nothing to do with football. You only have to look at any city centre at weekends and both sexes are as bad as eachother. I agree - speaking as a woman, there were a lot of nasty drunken women in Central London yesterday too. Still a minority compared to men, but it isn't an exclusively male problem.
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Post by fluxcapacitor on Jul 12, 2021 9:29:59 GMT
I think in normal circumstances some Spanish holiday resorts would disagree. The British have a terrible reputation with drinking that has nothing to do with football. You only have to look at any city centre at weekends and both sexes are as bad as eachother. I agree - speaking as a woman, there were a lot of nasty drunken women in Central London yesterday too. Still a minority compared to men, but it isn't an exclusively male problem. At the risk of going off topic, I agree completely will all your points that the Brits in general have an issue with alcohol. We have a reputation for being unruly, loud, rude and generally antisocial due to their relationship with it. I may have explained it badly, but my point is that the scenes of football fans yesterday go further than the usual Spanish holiday/weekend in Cardiff messy Friday night. Yes, you always have a few groups from both sexes who go too far on a Friday night, and yes it’s always the Brits who end up passed out, throwing up and getting into fights. But pictures from Leicester Square and outside Wembley yesterday show a destructive mob. It goes beyond the antisocial into hooliganism. That, I think, is a big problem in English football and it’s because - for some reason - it’s given a free pass from police and authorities. Imagine the same scenes playing out at Pride last month! There would have been outrage. I saw someone on Twitter call it “entitled hooliganism”, and that is something that you don’t see everywhere.
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Post by crowblack on Jul 12, 2021 9:53:40 GMT
Nobody wants us to live under restrictions forever. I'm getting sick of this strawman argument. It isn't a strawman argument. There are people who actually do want restrictions to go on as long as the virus is in existence. There was literally a post earlier in this thread by a board member hoping for masks on public transport for the rest of time. The music is just as loud with your fingers in your ears... Until the latter part of the 20th century, public spaces were designed with disease in mind. Buses and trains had windows that opened for ventilation, buses had an open back, as did all workplaces, hospitals and schools. Schooldesks were separate and faced forward, hair was tied back or short at the sides to stop nits. All parents were informed if a child in the class had an infection or parasites. Public toilets had gappy partitions and a guard to stop perverts abusing them. Now it's all fully sealed buildings, open plan offices with interchangeable desks, people going out to queue for takeways for lunch, schoolkids huddled round tables, an American attitude to coming in to work with a streaming cold. We've now got a world with cheap and easy travel, and a novel disease can get from the far side of the world to here in hours. We need to remember why we used to build in a certain way and factor that in again.
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Post by duncan on Jul 12, 2021 11:14:55 GMT
Unfortunately that is the British relationship with alcohol. Please don't tar us all with the "British" tag when its clearly an English matter.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jul 12, 2021 11:29:57 GMT
Unfortunately that is the British relationship with alcohol. Please don't tar us all with the "British" tag when its clearly an English matter. How do you characterise the Scottish fans that came down to London on masse two weeks ago? Have you ever travelled with Celtic or Rangers fans? Just observations, your post surprised me a little
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Post by poster J on Jul 12, 2021 11:35:49 GMT
Unfortunately that is the British relationship with alcohol. Please don't tar us all with the "British" tag when its clearly an English matter. That is about as wrong as you can be about anything. And I say that as someone who isn't English. Last night it was an English "fans" problem, but to think it doesn't happen in other corners of the four nations is naive in the extreme.
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Post by Dawnstar on Jul 12, 2021 11:55:59 GMT
It seems to me that the real winner of Euro 2021 is going to be covid. Dreading how much infections will shoot up this week. Going to throw in my 2p. I'm in my mid-twenties, reasonably healthy and fully vaccinated (since August as I took part in the Oxford trial). I've also been wearing a mask everywhere and avoiding large crowds, my only outings are alone to the theatre. Despite this I tested positive this morning and have spent the day feeling like I've been hit by a train. I am 100% in favour of masks and other restrictions sticking around until everyone's had the oppurtunity to be fully jabbed, and if I can get it and feel this awful I dread to think how it would affect someone more vulnerable Reading this is very worrying. I hope you feel better soon. This is why I'm still going nowhere despite having had my 2nd jab.
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Post by duncan on Jul 12, 2021 12:32:09 GMT
Please don't tar us all with the "British" tag when its clearly an English matter. How do you characterise the Scottish fans that came down to London on masse two weeks ago? Have you ever travelled with Celtic or Rangers fans? Just observations, your post surprised me a little Did they storm the gates of Wembley? No Did they clean up Leicester Square? Yes Not sure why its a comment that would surprise someone, Scottish fans have a history over the last 40 years of being non violent and non-threatening. England fans do not, they have rioted and fought across Europe for decades. The Bigots who follow the Old Firm are the exception and not the rule. Far too many people pejoratively use "British" when they actually should say English. The English disease of hooliganism isn't a "British" disease.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jul 12, 2021 12:56:12 GMT
How do you characterise the Scottish fans that came down to London on masse two weeks ago? Have you ever travelled with Celtic or Rangers fans? Just observations, your post surprised me a little Did they storm the gates of Wembley? No Did they clean up Leicester Square? Yes Not sure why its a comment that would surprise someone, Scottish fans have a history over the last 40 years of being non violent and non-threatening. England fans do not, they have rioted and fought across Europe for decades. The Bigots who follow the Old Firm are the exception and not the rule. Far too many people pejoratively use "British" when they actually should say English. The English disease of hooliganism isn't a "British" disease. Agree with lots of that, just the bad bits really and if that makes it a 'British' disease. Scotland fans do have a far better reputation, but are far from innocent. Yes you are correct about sectarianism, I think it is a bigger problem than yourself.
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Post by NeilVHughes on Jul 12, 2021 12:59:47 GMT
On the whole the Welsh fans fight amongst themselves, remember seeing a fight break out between the Swansea & Cardiff fans during a Wales match at Anfield and the reaction of the stewards was priceless as they tried to figure out what was happening in the ‘home’ stand.
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Post by Jon on Jul 12, 2021 13:07:09 GMT
I'm not sure whether to disgusted or bemused by the supporter who stuck a flare up his backside.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jul 12, 2021 13:26:17 GMT
On the whole the Welsh fans fight amongst themselves, remember seeing a fight break out between the Swansea & Cardiff fans during a Wales match at Anfield and the reaction of the stewards was priceless as they tried to figure out what was happening in the ‘home’ stand. Wouldn't stewards at Anfield be thinking Blue on Blue. Let them get on with it?
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Post by talkingheads on Jul 12, 2021 14:53:41 GMT
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Post by n1david on Jul 12, 2021 15:01:20 GMT
Well that's quite simply wrong given that the international travel restrictions remain in place. Definitely not "all" restrictions scrapped.
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Post by talkingheads on Jul 12, 2021 15:06:14 GMT
Well that's quite simply wrong given that the international travel restrictions remain in place. Definitely not "all" restrictions scrapped. Quite right. I put in a BBC link instead. It is most restrictions including making masks optional and no distancing.
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Post by NeilVHughes on Jul 12, 2021 15:09:43 GMT
Doesn’t really matter if the App remains as there will be nowhere to go or you have been told to isolate.
Believe 3 shows were closed today due to the need for someone in or some of the cast to isolate.
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Post by talkingheads on Jul 12, 2021 15:15:00 GMT
Doesn’t really matter if the App remains as there will be nowhere to go or you have been told to isolate. Believe 3 shows were closed today due to the need for someone in or some of the cast to isolate. It's not sustainable. No production can afford to keep stopping and starting. Also considering how football caused a bloke to put a flare up his bum I'm not entirely sure asking the public to use common sense is the best move.
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Post by firstwetakemanhattan on Jul 12, 2021 18:04:48 GMT
Doesn’t really matter if the App remains as there will be nowhere to go or you have been told to isolate. Believe 3 shows were closed today due to the need for someone in or some of the cast to isolate. It's not sustainable. No production can afford to keep stopping and starting. Also considering how football caused a bloke to put a flare up his bum I'm not entirely sure asking the public to use common sense is the best move. This is just going to keep on happening isnt it. Shows and play are going to close a regular intervals, how else can they not? What a mess.
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