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Post by dontdreamit on Jun 12, 2021 10:40:31 GMT
I know 3 people who have picked up their asymptomatic Covid via a lateral flow test. They may not be brilliant, but they are worth doing every if they only pick up a few cases that would have otherwise gone undetected.
I’m still hoping they’ll say theatres can fully reopen but with full use of masks except if exempt.
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Post by NeilVHughes on Jun 12, 2021 10:55:28 GMT
Out of interest how did they know they were not false positives as by definition they were asymptomatic. This was the issue the FDA highlighted there was a significant chance of false results with the Innova lateral flow tests, no issue with a false positive, only an unnecessary quarantine but where you are symptomatic with a false negative making you believe you have a sniffle most would most likely carry on as if you had a cold infecting a number of people that you came into contact with. Cutting and pasting a competitors results and a recommendation that all tests currently in the US are destroyed does not inspire confidence. The FDA is the most trusted and stringent regulatory body in the world and would not politicise decisions as this would destroy their reputation and did get the ire of Trump as they would not bow to his pressure to fast track approvals. The U.K. regulatory body the MHRA also have concerns as recorded in the bmj www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n1090
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Post by poster J on Jun 12, 2021 11:37:00 GMT
I can't believe I actually have to say this, but young people deserve not to get Long Covid just as much as older people. The selfishness of those who are happy to risk young people's health because older people are jabbed astonishes me. This 'I'm alright Jack' mentality has to stop. I am a young person. I've had over half of my university education destroyed for a virus that does not affect young people, besides getting a bit of a bad flu for a few days. Clearly you don't know anyone who has long Covid, otherwise you wouldn't be so hopelessly naive and selfish for the sake of 4 weeks. You are really starting to sound as if you naively assumed 21 June was set in stone from the start. There is no other explanation for you treating it like Doomsday. It isn't. Just because social distancing won't be removed then doesn't mean it can't be removed later. To think otherwise is absurd.
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Post by poster J on Jun 12, 2021 11:40:59 GMT
There is absolutely no justification as to why anyone anywhere domestically should be forced to prove they have undergone a private medical procedure. If the infrastructure is there for checking some medical papers, what other papers will they start to ask for? It's ID cards by the back door. It's a public health/public interest justification, which even the European Commission on Human Rights considers a legitimate reason for interfering with individual human rights. I take my last post back though, clearly your reason for your attitude towards all of this is actually an irrational paranoia against any kind of state interference/an irrational belief in conspiracy theories. If everyone had to prove the same thing then there is no discrimination and no more interference with anyone's rights than anyone else. Same with ID cards - I really don't see the issue, we all have to hold driving licenses to drive and passports to fly, what's the problem?
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jun 12, 2021 12:26:10 GMT
*raises hand* I’m ok with ID cards! *lowers hand*
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Post by sfsusan on Jun 12, 2021 12:32:36 GMT
Even after 15 months of Lockdown, there hasn't been any cost benefit analysis. I suspect a cost/benefit analysis comparing financial damage to deaths would be the kiss of death for any government. "Look, we could have saved X number of jobs by killing off Y number of people!!"
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Post by Phantom of London on Jun 12, 2021 13:03:57 GMT
I can't believe I actually have to say this, but young people deserve not to get Long Covid just as much as older people. The selfishness of those who are happy to risk young people's health because older people are jabbed astonishes me. This 'I'm alright Jack' mentality has to stop. I am a young person. I've had over half of my university education destroyed for a virus that does not affect young people, besides getting a bit of a bad flu for a few days. Do you know Jack, he is alright.
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Post by kathryn on Jun 12, 2021 13:30:29 GMT
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Post by kathryn on Jun 12, 2021 13:38:43 GMT
You are really starting to sound as if you naively assumed 21 June was set in stone from the start. There is no other explanation for you treating it like Doomsday. It isn't. Just because social distancing won't be removed then doesn't mean it can't be removed later. To think otherwise is absurd. [/quote] Agreed. No-one actually wants to keep these measures in place! They’re not there for sh*ts and giggles! They screw things up for sooo many people. But unfortunately they are necessary for a wee bit longer. Patience. I know that 4 weeks seems like ages when you are young, and 18 months like aeons, but this too shall pass.
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Post by theatreian on Jun 12, 2021 15:07:48 GMT
It's the notion of the changes being irreversible that's important and to business as well. Most would rather wait a bit longer knowing that once changes had been made they would not be reversed.
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Post by dontdreamit on Jun 12, 2021 15:17:43 GMT
Out of interest how did they know they were not false positives as by definition they were asymptomatic. All confirmed with a PCR test.
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Post by firefingers on Jun 12, 2021 16:40:38 GMT
It's the notion of the changes being irreversible that's important and to business as well. Most would rather wait a bit longer knowing that once changes had been made they would not be reversed. But there won't be that guarantee either way. A vaccine resistant strain etc could see us back into lockdown, whether the government would admit it now or not. 7 day deaths is actually down 2% despite the uptick in cases spanning weeks at this point. Hopefully this holds and we can unlock imminently.
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Post by nick on Jun 12, 2021 16:41:49 GMT
If everyone had to prove the same thing then there is no discrimination and no more interference with anyone's rights than anyone else. Same with ID cards - I really don't see the issue, we all have to hold driving licenses to drive and passports to fly, what's the problem? Probably not the right place for this but a general ID card is a million miles from a driving licence or a passport (you dont HAVE to have one for a start). I can live with a vaccine passport but ID cards cross a line for me.
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Post by nick on Jun 12, 2021 16:44:02 GMT
It's the notion of the changes being irreversible that's important and to business as well. Most would rather wait a bit longer knowing that once changes had been made they would not be reversed. Absolutely. We should see any delay as a commitment to irreversible changes. Having to roll back freedoms is worse than delaying the date.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jun 12, 2021 17:00:09 GMT
If everyone had to prove the same thing then there is no discrimination and no more interference with anyone's rights than anyone else. Same with ID cards - I really don't see the issue, we all have to hold driving licenses to drive and passports to fly, what's the problem? Probably not the right place for this but a general ID card is a million miles from a driving licence or a passport (you dont HAVE to have one for a start). I can live with a vaccine passport but ID cards cross a line for me. Vast swathes of Europe seem to get on just fine with them, and aren’t the EU (yes, that’s the EU that everyone hankers to be back in) introducing the EU ID card in the near future? So they obviously think it’s a great idea. I had one when they were piloted in Manchester. Sadly they didn’t last long enough but even during the time I had it travelling was so much easier. ID card - easy to carry around. Passport - not so much. I think the fact that we’re all carrying computer in our pockets that tracks our location, has our medical records, contacts, friends, shopping preferences etc etc is far more of a line already crossed than an ID card could ever be.
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Post by kathryn on Jun 12, 2021 17:47:19 GMT
… and people use those pocket computers to go on dating apps and look up/watch porn.
Most people worry too little about the privacy they have already given away.
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Post by crowblack on Jun 12, 2021 18:11:35 GMT
I'm much happier with the idea of an ID card (which Labour tried to bring in) than a fitbit-type watch sending my every breath and heartbeat detail to - well, who and where exactly?
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Post by sph on Jun 12, 2021 19:41:10 GMT
I think that delaying the reopening is going to happen, it'll be July 19th as that is what was leaked and the leaks usually come true.
I understand why they are doing this, but I do worry about how the public will react to future spikes or rises in cases, which are of course, inevitable. Even if the virus disappeared off the face of the earth tomorrow, there'd still be some people who'd want to keep restrictions just in case. It's like having your house robbed. You can move to a safer area, get all the alarms and security possible, but never feel quite the same in your home again. That's the effect I think the virus will have even after it is under control.
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Post by Jon on Jun 12, 2021 20:01:20 GMT
I think that delaying the reopening is going to happen, it'll be July 19th as that is what was leaked and the leaks usually come true. I understand why they are doing this, but I do worry about how the public will react to future spikes or rises in cases, which are of course, inevitable. Even if the virus disappeared off the face of the earth tomorrow, there'd still be some people who'd want to keep restrictions just in case. It's like having your house robbed. You can move to a safer area, get all the alarms and security possible, but never feel quite the same in your home again. That's the effect I think the virus will have even after it is under control. I suspect when the daily numbers charts are eventually dropped, it'll no longer of interest to the general population.
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Post by Mark on Jun 13, 2021 16:48:22 GMT
Went to a walk in center today open to all age groups, able to get second jab after 4.5 weeks. Hopefully they can start bringing those second doses forward for all and have been able to offer to everyone by end of July.
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Post by nick on Jun 13, 2021 16:59:48 GMT
I'm much happier with the idea of an ID card (which Labour tried to bring in) than a fitbit-type watch sending my every breath and heartbeat detail to - well, who and where exactly? But it's about choice. An id card would be compulsory - all the other things are a choice. I agree about "who and where exactly". Freedom means 2 things - choice and enough information to make an informed choice.
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Post by talkingheads on Jun 13, 2021 17:09:30 GMT
I'm much happier with the idea of an ID card (which Labour tried to bring in) than a fitbit-type watch sending my every breath and heartbeat detail to - well, who and where exactly? But it's about choice. An id card would be compulsory - all the other things are a choice. I agree about "who and where exactly". Freedom means 2 things - choice and enough information to make an informed choice. If you carry a phone in your pocket they already have far more information than any ID card would contain.
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Post by The Matthew on Jun 13, 2021 17:34:08 GMT
I'm supposed to have my second vaccination this week. I'm rather concerned that when I go to the NHS site to check my booking it doesn't appear. This is after they cancelled my original booking and I had to reschedule it, so I don't have a huge amount of confidence that the system is working.
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Post by nick on Jun 13, 2021 18:43:06 GMT
But it's about choice. An id card would be compulsory - all the other things are a choice. I agree about "who and where exactly". Freedom means 2 things - choice and enough information to make an informed choice. If you carry a phone in your pocket they already have far more information than any ID card would contain. Again I CHOOSE to have a smart phone. The day I have to carry a card (or smart device) to do normal activities is the day I feel my freedom has been taken away. It is happening by stealth but people can still (just about) choose to live a life without needing photo id. Only just.
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Post by kathryn on Jun 13, 2021 19:37:51 GMT
Do you really choose, though? In your life as you live it now, is not having a smart phone a viable choice?
Edit: Heh. I apologize for the gross example, but I am having dinner in a local restaurant right now, and posted the above just before I got up to go to the loo. Took my bag with me as I’m dining alone. Sat on the loo, the toilet lights went out. They’re on a motion sensor and there was no-one else in there. Waving my arms in the air didn’t make the light come back on, so I reached into my bag pulled out my phone and turned on the torch. Didn’t even think about it - need a torch, there’s one on my phone. Need a calculator - there’s one on my phone. Need a train timetable - there’s one on my phone. Need a map - there’s one on my phone. Need to pay my bill - I can do that on my phone.
I used to do all this stuff perfectly well without a phone - I carried a map, Train timetables, a mini torch, a camera, and I still carry credit cards in my bag. And I was better at mental arithmetic! But being without my phone now would feel like a serious inconvenience….
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Post by The Matthew on Jun 13, 2021 20:09:47 GMT
Heh. I apologize for the gross example, but I am having dinner in a local restaurant right now, and posted the above just before I got up to go to the loo. Took my bag with me as I’m dining alone. Sat on the loo, the toilet lights went out. They’re on a motion sensor and there was no-one else in there. Waving my arms in the air didn’t make the light come back on, so I reached into my bag pulled out my phone and turned on the torch. Didn’t even think about it - need a torch, there’s one on my phone. [...] I used to do all this stuff perfectly well without a phone - I carried a map, Train timetables, a mini torch, a camera, and I still carry credit cards in my bag. And I was better at mental arithmetic! But being without my phone now would feel like a serious inconvenience…. In most respects I'd agree, but regarding torches I'd say that everyone absolutely should have a proper torch and not use a phone. A modern torch offers far more flexibility, being able to go from helping you look for something on the floor in a theatre or cinema without disturbing anyone else to being able to light someone up 50m away on a footpath at night (and without telegraphing to everyone "hey, look at me carrying my valuable and stealable phone"). You can hold it in your mouth when you have to go hands-free, and if you drop it on the floor of a toilet you can wash it in a sink because it's waterproof (presumably without putting it back in your mouth first). In a power cut you can light a room for hours by bouncing the beam off a ceiling. And you can get this from something only slightly larger than an AAA battery while reserving your phone battery for actual phone things like games and web browsing and perhaps even phone calls.
(I've been a flashlight fan for many years, and when you can produce light with a twist of your fingers it's amazing how often you find it useful. I don't think there's been a single day for years when I haven't used a torch multiple times for various things, and it bothers me when I see someone struggling to juggle a phone when they could do the job so much more easily.)
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Post by lynette on Jun 13, 2021 22:01:27 GMT
Torch on phone essential. Just that. Kathryn , I know….
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2021 1:43:56 GMT
If everyone who wanted a vaccination, has been offered and had the vaccination, then we shouldn't have to worry about those that chose not to. At some point we have to get on with it. We can't keep having lockdowns everytime a new variant appears. It's just not viable.
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Post by MrBraithwaite on Jun 14, 2021 5:11:17 GMT
Always amused by this kind of discussion. As a German citizen I of course have an ID card, that I can show to everyone who wants to see it, to prove age, my home town etc. Used to be even good enough to travel to a certain country, for which I now need a travel passport. So a vaccine passport, which is coming out this week, is no problem at all. I'd love to show it to everyone I meet, would even carry it around on a lanyard. Happily.
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Post by theatregod on Jun 14, 2021 6:51:44 GMT
My guess 3 month lockdown... from tonight’s PM announcement, then another slow relaxation of restrictions taking us to summer.. Open air theatres will be allowed again in July/August best bets....with west end half open going into the back end of the year, guess it won’t be fully open until summer 2022 and only in 2023 international tourists will begin flocking back to the capital in huge numbers.. So, my prediction was pretty much spot on... with the month+ delay which will be announced later by Boris I feel we will be in a half way house through to next summer for theatre. There will likely be a huge vaccination programme to take place at schools in the first week of term for teenagers...and my best bets are that they will extend the Christmas break just in casethere’s signs of a 4th winter wave.
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