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Post by marypoppins on Feb 10, 2020 11:29:43 GMT
I don’t consider myself homophobic in the slightest but I do find it sad that this is news worthy because it is essentially a private matter. I find the whole concept of “coming out” sad too because that implies that there is something to be hidden or that isn’t normal. I hope that my children’s generation won’t feel the need to discuss this sexuality with me or anyone else, it’ll just be what it is. I find it odd that people think they have some sort of right to known which gender you are attracted too, like that changes who you are.
I look forward to the day when sexuality isn’t news. Then perhaps people won’t struggle with theirs for so long.
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Post by kathryn on Feb 10, 2020 12:15:56 GMT
There's a fine line between 'private - and no-one else's business' and 'secret, shameful - not to be spoken of in polite company'. For a long time being gay was the latter, and it did no-one any favours.
Our society is organised around the nuclear family - marriages, parentage, divorces all have to be public knowledge as a result. Though I notice that Fern and Phil getting a divorce did not prompt nearly as much interest.
Until we live in a world where bisexuality is assumed to be the norm and whether one's partner is male or female is a matter of mild gossip-interest, and nothing more, a public figure coming out will continue to be newsworthy.
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Post by marypoppins on Feb 10, 2020 12:20:25 GMT
No I absolutely don’t mean that anything should be secret. More that you don’t feel the need to announce your sexuality, which is different to making a relationship public, much in the same way that hetrosexual people don’t announce their sexuality.
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Post by kathryn on Feb 10, 2020 12:56:04 GMT
No I absolutely don’t mean that anything should be secret. More that you don’t feel the need to announce your sexuality, which is different to making a relationship public, much in the same way that hetrosexual people don’t announce their sexuality. I think I understand what you’re saying, and that your intention is to be well meaning, but that’s not how it works. People are generally assumed to be straight. There will be a need to “come out” as gay as long as that remains the status quo. Given that the demographic breakdown of sexual identity seems to be reasonably consistent, heterosexuals are still the majority of the population and it does seem that people are 'born that way', it's fairly unlikely that heteronormative assumptions will change any time soon. The best we are likely to achieve is treating it with as much excitement as finding out that someone prefers pineapple on their pizza.
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Post by vdcni on Feb 10, 2020 14:09:48 GMT
No I absolutely don’t mean that anything should be secret. More that you don’t feel the need to announce your sexuality, which is different to making a relationship public, much in the same way that hetrosexual people don’t announce their sexuality. But as soon as I say my husband in a conversation with someone I am also announcing my sexuality because until that point the assumption is I'm straight. And even now in the UK I'll sometimes not say it because I'm unsure of the reaction. Saying that heterosexual people don't announce it isn't a particularly helpful statement to be honest.
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Post by Mr Snow on Feb 10, 2020 14:27:50 GMT
A quick flick through this thread shows scant thoughts for his wife.
I don't understand the politics of declaring yourself gay, rather than bi; but it does seem shes the one who faces a painful uncertain future whilst wondering quite who she spent the last 27 years with. That's painful.
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Post by intoanewlife on Feb 10, 2020 15:59:44 GMT
A quick flick through this thread shows scant thoughts for his wife. I don't understand the politics of declaring yourself gay, rather than bi; but it does seem shes the one who faces a painful uncertain future whilst wondering quite who she spent the last 27 years with. That's painful. He loved her for 27 years and said yesterday that he loves her more now than he ever has. His ability to love someone has nothing to do with his sexuality nor is it in anyway at all an indictment on her.
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Post by intoanewlife on Feb 10, 2020 16:02:10 GMT
DP
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Post by danb on Feb 10, 2020 16:29:10 GMT
I don’t consider myself homophobic in the slightest but I do find it sad that this is news worthy because it is essentially a private matter. I find the whole concept of “coming out” sad too because that implies that there is something to be hidden or that isn’t normal. I hope that my children’s generation won’t feel the need to discuss this sexuality with me or anyone else, it’ll just be what it is. I find it odd that people think they have some sort of right to known which gender you are attracted too, like that changes who you are. I look forward to the day when sexuality isn’t news. Then perhaps people won’t struggle with theirs for so long. Exactly this.
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Post by alece10 on Feb 10, 2020 18:09:44 GMT
Was upset that I was right. The Mail on Sunday confirmed it was a "media source going to reveal" that made him contact a "damage limitation" company and rush out something within 24 hours. The Mail. What a surprise!
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Post by The Matthew on Feb 10, 2020 18:18:54 GMT
I sometimes wonder how journalists justify their actions to themselves.
"What do you want to be when you grow up?"
"I want to be a journalist. I want to lie and deceive people so often they won't be able to distinguish truth from fiction. I want to trick people into voting against their own interests. I want to end careers and ruin businesses. I want to wreck relationships. I want to harass grieving parents. I want to drive people to suicide. And I want to have such control over what people think that none dare stop me."
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Post by intoanewlife on Feb 10, 2020 18:21:04 GMT
Was upset that I was right. The Mail on Sunday confirmed it was a "media source going to reveal" that made him contact a "damage limitation" company and rush out something within 24 hours. Despicable, but not surprising in the least. Scumbags x
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Post by intoanewlife on Feb 10, 2020 18:22:16 GMT
I sometimes wonder how journalists justify their actions to themselves. "What do you want to be when you grow up?" "I want to be a journalist. I want to lie and deceive people so often they won't be able to distinguish truth from fiction. I want to trick people into voting against their own interests. I want to end careers and ruin businesses. I want to wreck relationships. I want to harass grieving parents. I want to drive people to suicide. And I want to have such control over what people think that none dare stop me." Careers with highest proportion of psychopaths According to Dutton, the ten careers with the highest proportion of psychopaths are: CEO Lawyer Media (TV/radio) Salesperson Surgeon JournalistPolice officer Clergy Chef Civil servant
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2020 19:11:18 GMT
A quick flick through this thread shows scant thoughts for his wife. I don't understand the politics of declaring yourself gay, rather than bi; but it does seem shes the one who faces a painful uncertain future whilst wondering quite who she spent the last 27 years with. That's painful. He loved her for 27 years and said yesterday that he loves her more now than he ever has. His ability to love someone has nothing to do with his sexuality nor is it in anyway at all an indictment on her. I'm shocked that someone thinks just because he said he loved her that it makes everything ok. Unless she knew from the day she married him she will be going through all sorts of emotions and second guessing her life, her future etc. If she didnt know then her life has been ripped apart and has been based on a lie. You dont just get passed that with him saying 'I love you'. Its a different type of love and not the one she was signing up for
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Post by marypoppins on Feb 10, 2020 19:14:18 GMT
No I absolutely don’t mean that anything should be secret. More that you don’t feel the need to announce your sexuality, which is different to making a relationship public, much in the same way that hetrosexual people don’t announce their sexuality. But as soon as I say my husband in a conversation with someone I am also announcing my sexuality because until that point the assumption is I'm straight. And even now in the UK I'll sometimes not say it because I'm unsure of the reaction. Saying that heterosexual people don't announce it isn't a particularly helpful statement to be honest. That’s announcing your relationship, and incidentally your sexuality (assuming of course your gender is obvious), it’s not sitting people down before you even have a date never mind a husband and “coming out”. I have no issue knowing someone’s sexuality (or assumed sexuality given their circumstances, just cos you’re a woman with a husband doesn’t mean your not bi), I just don’t need to be told it separately. Unless I am interested in them sexually it makes no difference to me, or changes who they are.
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Post by intoanewlife on Feb 10, 2020 19:50:53 GMT
He loved her for 27 years and said yesterday that he loves her more now than he ever has. His ability to love someone has nothing to do with his sexuality nor is it in anyway at all an indictment on her. I'm shocked that someone thinks just because he said he loved her that it makes everything ok. Unless she knew from the day she married him she will be going through all sorts of emotions and second guessing her life, her future etc. If she didnt know then her life has been ripped apart and has been based on a lie. You dont just get passed that with him saying 'I love you'. Its a different type of love and not the one she was signing up for yikes...
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Post by kathryn on Feb 10, 2020 22:01:42 GMT
But as soon as I say my husband in a conversation with someone I am also announcing my sexuality because until that point the assumption is I'm straight. And even now in the UK I'll sometimes not say it because I'm unsure of the reaction. Saying that heterosexual people don't announce it isn't a particularly helpful statement to be honest. That’s announcing your relationship, and incidentally your sexuality (assuming of course your gender is obvious), it’s not sitting people down before you even have a date never mind a husband and “coming out”. I have no issue knowing someone’s sexuality (or assumed sexuality given their circumstances, just cos you’re a woman with a husband doesn’t mean your not bi), I just don’t need to be told it separately. Unless I am interested in them sexually it makes no difference to me, or changes who they are. But it makes a difference to them. It might even make a difference is tangibly practical ways - For example, they may not want to go on holiday with you to a country where being gay is still illegal, or eat at a fast food chain that gives money to politicians who support anti-gay policies, or go to a church that preaches that being gay is sinful. They might need you to know that gay they are a victim of homophobic bullying at school or work. They might need your vote on issues such as gay marriage, or gay parental rights, or gay anti-discrimination laws.
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Post by marypoppins on Feb 10, 2020 23:31:47 GMT
That’s announcing your relationship, and incidentally your sexuality (assuming of course your gender is obvious), it’s not sitting people down before you even have a date never mind a husband and “coming out”. I have no issue knowing someone’s sexuality (or assumed sexuality given their circumstances, just cos you’re a woman with a husband doesn’t mean your not bi), I just don’t need to be told it separately. Unless I am interested in them sexually it makes no difference to me, or changes who they are. But it makes a difference to them. It might even make a difference is tangibly practical ways - For example, they may not want to go on holiday with you to a country where being gay is still illegal, or eat at a fast food chain that gives money to politicians who support anti-gay policies, or go to a church that preaches that being gay is sinful. They might need you to know that gay they are a victim of homophobic bullying at school or work. They might need your vote on issues such as gay marriage, or gay parental rights, or gay anti-discrimination laws. I see what you’re saying, but equally those things are just part of wanting to live in a fair society and you don’t need to be gay to have those opinions. If everyone cared less about other people’s sexuality then there would be far less homophobia etc, and there wouldn’t need to be gay rights because everyone would have equal human rights.
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Post by kathryn on Feb 10, 2020 23:56:12 GMT
If, if, if...
We don’t live in that society - not yet. The world is not fair, or just. People are still discriminated against.
We can’t wish it into being over night. If we want it we have to fight for it.
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Post by steve10086 on Feb 11, 2020 6:43:52 GMT
If, if, if... We don’t live in that society - not yet. The world is not fair, or just. People are still discriminated against. We can’t wish it into being over night. If we want it we have to fight for it. Wish I could “like” this more than once.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2020 12:53:22 GMT
There's a fine line between 'private - and no-one else's business' and 'secret, shameful - not to be spoken of in polite company'. For a long time being gay was the latter, and it did no-one any favours. Our society is organised around the nuclear family - marriages, parentage, divorces all have to be public knowledge as a result. Though I notice that Fern and Phil getting a divorce did not prompt nearly as much interest. Until we live in a world where bisexuality is assumed to be the norm and whether one's partner is male or female is a matter of mild gossip-interest, and nothing more, a public figure coming out will continue to be newsworthy. I saw online about Fern and Phil Vickery but to be fair Schofe is a lot more high profile than Fern at this time. Her marriage to Phil Vickery was well publicised.
I'd take the view that high profile people coming out is good for others thinking of doing so. The Beeb interviewed a chap from some Manchester Gay Project or Support Group who said it was a good, relevant thing that Schofe had come out as it may help other older people to do so and may stop internal conflict within themselves.
I take the view that someone's sexuality is their own but if they decide to come out, announce they are straight, bi etc it is up to them and we treat that person exactly the same as before.
It's not like an MP defecting from one party to another and factions celebrating "We've got another one".
Schofe's announcement was briefly mentioned on DOI on Sunday by Ashley Banjo. There was no great fanfare from John Barrowman who I thought might have been the person to comment on it. Ashley pitched it just right and then show then continued as normal which I thought was perfect.
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Post by marypoppins on Feb 11, 2020 18:39:03 GMT
If, if, if... We don’t live in that society - not yet. The world is not fair, or just. People are still discriminated against. We can’t wish it into being over night. If we want it we have to fight for it. I’m aware it isn’t, and that makes me sad. I agree equality is something worth fighting for, but sure it would better to fight the people who don’t agree rather than the ones who do?
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Post by kathryn on Feb 11, 2020 20:06:01 GMT
I don’t think we’re fighting, are we? Just disagreeing over a nuance.
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Xanderl
Member
Not always very high value in terms of ticket yield or donations
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Post by Xanderl on Mar 10, 2020 17:57:14 GMT
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Post by intoanewlife on Mar 10, 2020 18:50:14 GMT
Disgusting!
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Mar 10, 2020 21:52:20 GMT
No surprise there then.
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Post by alece10 on Mar 11, 2020 8:22:29 GMT
Exactly. We just knew the press were behind it somewhere. They will never get any better.
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Post by basi1faw1ty on Mar 11, 2020 10:55:26 GMT
And D** W****** is involved. Shocker.
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Post by The Matthew on Mar 11, 2020 12:43:08 GMT
I hope it comes back to bite them. It would be interesting if they suddenly found that media companies and celebrities won't touch them.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Mar 11, 2020 15:20:54 GMT
It is very easy to bash the press. But they got this story from somewhere. And, if we are to believe what has been mentioned elsewhere, if the story originated from a disgruntled ex who also happened to work on This Morning, then it would have made it's way into the open at some point.
There is a significant difference to approaching a celeb saying that a story is doing the rounds, you might want to manage things to minimize distress and approaching the celeb and saying give us the exclusive or we publish.
We don't know what was said between any member of the press and PS.
It should never have been a big story. But at the heart of it seems to be someone trying to sell it. It would seem that that person has not profited from it and PS has managed this crisis point with dignity.
I tend not to believe everything in the media and not to believe everything that is said about the media.
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