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Post by joem on Jul 16, 2019 22:40:02 GMT
Apparently today was the 10th anniversary of the first performance of Jez Butterworth's "Jerusalem" and as a result Dominic Cavendish has written an opinion piece on why he thinks it is the best British play written on the 21st century so far. I actually agree it is the best one I've seen. The article itself is unfortunately mostly behind a firewall, I link the free bit which has the first couple of paragraphs. Is this a view widely shared on this board and what are the other potential candidates? www.telegraph.co.uk/theatre/what-to-see/jez-butterworths-jerusalem-greatest-british-play-century/ |
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Post by lynette on Jul 17, 2019 15:25:30 GMT
I saw it twice and at the time thought it was very good, layered with proper characters and no shoving opinions down your throat, letting the messages come through the characters. I liked the mystic element though others I know didn’t. Rylance's performance was extraordinary and he deserves the accolades for it. As for being the play of the decade or whatever I dunno. There have a lot of plays that have been very good, some v short kind of not quite plays - that two hander which flicked around time and was about a relationship was superb for example- but let's face it, nothing like a Hamlet for our time. James Graham writes proper plays but will they last? Personally I think we need a bit more time. For the twentieth century I would go with Pinter, an unpopular choice I know, but I think people will be able to put on his plays when we are long gone. Will they put on Jerusalem for a centenary performance? Maybe.
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Post by hal9000 on Jul 17, 2019 18:41:23 GMT
I felt it was trying to have its cake and eat it, too.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2019 21:43:20 GMT
I looked through what I’ve seen since 2000 and it’s definitely one of few plays that had both immediacy and a more mythical quality, giving it both timeliness and an enduring appeal. There are more experimental plays that I liked that are likely seen as more niche than Jerusalem but, in the end, only The Pillowman comes close, for me. Constellations, which I think Lynette was referring to but that feels, like many others, as being a less ambitious chamber piece.
I saw the whole article via the link, by the way, Maybe the paywall alllows for a small number of views per month or so.
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Post by Mark on Jul 17, 2019 22:15:35 GMT
Clybourne Park, The Inheritance, The Ferryman all up there too for me.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2019 22:29:25 GMT
Clybourne Park, The Inheritance, The Ferryman all up there too for me. The first two of those are American plays, |
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Post by Mark on Jul 18, 2019 7:28:58 GMT
Clybourne Park, The Inheritance, The Ferryman all up there too for me. The first two of those are American plays, I totally missed “British”... oops! The only other one that I think is in that league is Curious Incident, which obviously was an adaptation of the brilliant book. |
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Post by duncan on Jul 18, 2019 11:37:30 GMT
If it didnt have Rylance giving his all, I dont think this would even be remembered today.
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Post by crowblack on Jul 18, 2019 11:44:00 GMT
If it didnt have Rylance giving his all, I dont think this would even be remembered today. I didn't see it, which I regret - it was just after I'd moved out of London - and I get the impression it was something you had to be there for. What makes me wonder is, if it was that good a play, why hasn't it had lots of revivals? I feel the same about The Inheritance - a superb production which I'm glad I saw but I don't think the play itself is a classic. |
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Post by NeilVHughes on Jul 18, 2019 11:55:19 GMT
Didn’t catch the Rylance original and have only seen the Watermill revival with Jasper Britton last year, found it to be engaging, powerful and still pertinent.
Without reference to the Rylance original found Britton’s performance riveting enhanced by the intimate setting especially when sitting in the first few rows.
I suppose the ‘mythical’ status of the Rylance production inhibits a London revival.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2019 12:34:09 GMT
I've said it before and I'll say it again; I'm perfectly happy to accept Jerusalem as a modern classic. Even though it mostly got 4* reviews when it came out and the critics fell all over themselves to give The Ferryman 5*, it is by far the superior work, and although seeing other professional and amateur productions have largely served to reinforce for me what a tremendous job Rylance did with the material, they've also proven that it does stand up even without Rylance or Rickson attached. I honestly don't think anything else from the 21st century stands up to it, even if we open up the criteria to include plays of non-British origin (and even though The Mountaintop beat it to the Best New Play Olivier).
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Post by Rory on Jul 18, 2019 12:57:29 GMT
If it didnt have Rylance giving his all, I dont think this would even be remembered today. I didn't see it, which I regret - it was just after I'd moved out of London - and I get the impression it was something you had to be there for. What makes me wonder is, if it was that good a play, why hasn't it had lots of revivals? I feel the same about The Inheritance - a superb production which I'm glad I saw but I don't think the play itself is a classic. I saw it during its first run at the Apollo and it was one of those times in the theatre when there was a perfect alchemy between what was happening on stage and the audience buzz off it. I adored the play itself and Rylance was mesmerising and to answer crowblack's query, I think the indelible memory of his performance has made reviving it a daunting prospect (although the Watermill and Jasper Britton appeared to pull it off successfully). One thing I can't help but flag is that I had a cracking seat in centre Row F Apollo stalls for around £49. I shudder to think how much that seat would cost now ten years later. It would probably be super duper duper premium plus or something to the tune of £172. |
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Post by Phantom of London on Jul 18, 2019 12:57:32 GMT
Mark Rylance said "5 years is a ripe time for him to revive this again,' that was 10 years ago, so 5 years late already!
Brilliant play and one of the first I saw, so that play has cost me thousands, as it got me hooked on plays, not much have I seen since has matched this.
Jerusalem is unique in a way as it can only work in theatres and would love to see this again, with Mark Rylance would be awesome and this piece would play excellently in the Open Air theatre, as the natural surrounding of trees, would make it like the woods where it is set.
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Post by hal9000 on Jul 18, 2019 20:55:51 GMT
With regards to the 2012 Olympics Opening Ceremony, I remember Frank Skinner on his podcast not gushing over it the way his cohosts did. He didn’t say it sucked, but his response was noticeably subdued.
In 2016, he said that he could trace the stirrings of Brexit to it. People saw the kitsch and carnivalesque green-and-pleasant-land and thought: “This Is England. I want some more of that.”
I don’t entirely agree with him, and though I don’t link that Jersalem to Brexit, I can see his point better illustrated with the play.
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Post by orchidman on Jul 19, 2019 12:56:10 GMT
Always thought it was a decent play elevated to something special by Rylance's performance. For me The Ferryman is a much better script. But to be fair to Butterworth, I think he wrote Jerusalem for Rylance so he has to take his fair share of credit for crafting him a great vehicle.
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Post by hal9000 on Jul 19, 2019 13:48:18 GMT
People saw the kitsch and carnivalesque green-and-pleasant-land and thought: “This Is England. I want some more of that.” You could apply that to "Last Night of the Proms." I agree, no link. That said, being a cynic, I thought when watching that Rooster was written as a proud "gypsy" in order to dodge accusations the bigotry that can occur when people are obsessed with "Englishness", re St George's day, etc. |
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Post by lynette on Jul 21, 2019 19:53:08 GMT
Always thought it was a decent play elevated to something special by Rylance's performance. For me The Ferryman is a much better script. But to be fair to Butterworth, I think he wrote Jerusalem for Rylance so he has to take his fair share of credit for crafting him a great vehicle. Funny that. I found Ferryman melodramatic and unconvincing, especially the end. But despite the mystic element i thought Jerusalem was utterly realistic. |
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Post by Backdrifter on Jul 22, 2019 9:19:48 GMT
With regards to the 2012 Olympics Opening Ceremony, I remember Frank Skinner on his podcast not gushing over it the way his cohosts did. He didn’t say it sucked, but his response was noticeably subdued. In 2016, he said that he could trace the stirrings of Brexit to it. People saw the kitsch and carnivalesque green-and-pleasant-land and thought: “This Is England. I want some more of that.” I don’t entirely agree with him, and though I don’t link that Jersalem to Brexit, I can see his point better illustrated with the play. This is interesting. It did occur to me when enjoying a few performances of Jerusalem that it conveyed a strong sense of English heritage through enduring myths and storytelling, but personified in the form of a figure we'd probably all find annoying and disruptive if he were within our space. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2019 11:39:13 GMT
With regards to the 2012 Olympics Opening Ceremony, I remember Frank Skinner on his podcast not gushing over it the way his cohosts did. He didn’t say it sucked, but his response was noticeably subdued. In 2016, he said that he could trace the stirrings of Brexit to it. People saw the kitsch and carnivalesque green-and-pleasant-land and thought: “This Is England. I want some more of that.” I don’t entirely agree with him, and though I don’t link that Jersalem to Brexit, I can see his point better illustrated with the play. This is interesting. It did occur to me when enjoying a few performances of Jerusalem that it conveyed a strong sense of English heritage through enduring myths and storytelling, but personified in the form of a figure we'd probably all find annoying and disruptive if he were within our space. I think that Skinner has misread this, the Rooster character is a Falstaffian disruptor, an antihero, not someone to be followed. That others do so shows the lack of magic in our contemporary world (also alluded to by the way that drugs are a way of life). The poet from whom the play takes its title, William Blake, and the poem itself are more important touchstones regarding its underlying landscape, one of industrialisation enslaving the working class, of conformist religion perverting its message of equality and of suppression of (what Blake desired to be) free love, Blake was a bit of a proto-hippy in a way! The evil within Blake and Jerusalem is the nationalist, the unfettered, conformist capitalist. The Brexiter little Englander, isolationist, creator of a spurious ‘freedom’ whereby the capitalist is newly enabled to exploit the ‘common man’ is the opposite of what the play is suggesting is our shared ‘Jerusalem’. Brexit is the enabler of the ‘dark satanic mills’, the denier of worker’s rights, of standards and alliances that keep the people safe from their capitalist oppressor. This is the Rooster that is Blakeian; the man outside the system that has desiccated the lives of his followers. And, yes, he’s a pain in the arse. The sadness of the play is that it is only a marginalised waster who carries the torch for this philosophy. The last of a dying race. In a caravan. In a wood. |
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Post by Backdrifter on Jul 22, 2019 12:10:35 GMT
I think that Skinner has misread this, the Rooster character is a Falstaffian disruptor, an antihero, not someone to be followed. To be fair to Skinner, his comment was on his wariness about the general celebration of the 2012 Olympics opening ceremony, which made hal9000 think about Jerusalem in the same sort of context. But yes I agree with your points. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2019 12:37:06 GMT
I think that Skinner has misread this, the Rooster character is a Falstaffian disruptor, an antihero, not someone to be followed. To be fair to Skinner, his comment was on his wariness about the general celebration of the 2012 Olympics opening ceremony, which made hal9000 think about Jerusalem in the same sort of context. But yes I agree with your points. Ah, I thought he was looking at both. Anyway, the ceremony was steeped in the imagery of the poem, with its creeping industrialisation, albeit with a less apocalyptic feel. |
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Post by crowblack on Jul 24, 2019 11:34:06 GMT
The Brexiter little Englander, isolationist, creator of a spurious ‘freedom’ whereby the capitalist is newly enabled to exploit the ‘common man’ is the opposite of what the play is suggesting is our shared ‘Jerusalem’. I read the playtext yesterday, and have to say I didn't read it that way - it has very much the spirit of what I think motivated many 'common men' to vote Leave (I read it just after hearing Boris Johnson's speech with its talk of sleeping giants) and the reviews of the Watermill revival echo that. Maybe the reluctance to do a London revival is also because London audience attitudes to the Byron character may well have shifted since it was written? Incidentally, having finally read it and looking a the photos from the RC production, Rylance looks a bit too fit and clean for a character who lives in a caravan and uses Class As as a primary food group, or on whom the other characters would wee. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2019 11:48:56 GMT
The Brexiter little Englander, isolationist, creator of a spurious ‘freedom’ whereby the capitalist is newly enabled to exploit the ‘common man’ is the opposite of what the play is suggesting is our shared ‘Jerusalem’. I read the playtext yesterday, and have to say I didn't read it that way - it has very much the spirit of what I think motivated many 'common men' to vote Leave (I read it just after hearing Boris Johnson's speech with its talk of sleeping giants) and the reviews of the Watermill revival echo that. Maybe the reluctance to do a London revival is also because London audience attitudes to the Byron character may well have shifted since it was written? Incidentally, having finally read it and looking a the photos from the RC production, Rylance looks a bit too fit and clean for a character who lives in a caravan and uses Class As as a primary food group, or on whom the other characters would wee. Many have confused the idea of freedom from authority with Brexit, it has likely been the reason why enough were corralled into supporting it. It can probably be twisted from one to the other but, given that Butterworth declined an OBE because Cameron had been stupid enough to try and save his party by letting the electorate destroy themselves instead, I really doubt that it is an accurate reading. Maybe he needs to update it..... |
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Post by crowblack on Jul 24, 2019 13:09:13 GMT
I really doubt that it is an accurate reading. I think the play depicts an aspect of the mindset that led some people to vote in the way they did, as did, in a different way, the rural Britain part of the 2012 Olympic ceremony (shades of the French Republic's Fete of the Supreme Being in that too - the hill/tree of liberty a direct visual quote). The reasons for Brexit are many and deep rooted, decades in gestation. There was a letter/essay in an exhibition by the working-class Northern photographer Tish Murtha from the late 70s that very accurately predicts the current political situation in respect of a section of the electorate - Sweat, written long before Trump, does similar - the 'Left Behind' aspect. Jerusalem - also written years before - contains another: St George, an old Wessex flag, England's Green and Pleasant, Spitfires, lead character in a WW2 helmet with an air raid siren and 'Waterloo' on his caravan, national spirits rising again and all that, vs a distant, suit-wearing urban bureaucracy imposing rules (the Council and the Swindon-based Brewery - Sweat had similar distant powers) on behalf of the people in a new housing estate. The play was written years before Brexit but it contains some of the attitudes and imagery that that political campaign harnessed. I don't know why you seem to think I think Butterworth was, by writing about them, endorsing them. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2019 13:26:31 GMT
I really doubt that it is an accurate reading. Snip The play was written years before Brexit but it contains some of the attitudes that that political campaign harnessed. I don't know why you seem to think I think Butterworth was, by writing about them, endorsing them. I wasn’t suggesting that he endorsed them or that you thought so, instead that Butterworth would likely be upset if people did (hence a few rewrite tweaks maybe being useful). My view on the gestation of Brexit is best summed up in my most recent post there about the weaponisation of data. My own working class background means that I have seen what you mention close up but the biggest contributory factor now is that disparate and inchoate feelings have been weaponised by astute manipulation. It’s why the idea of Dominic Cummings being part of government now is so chilling and why the alliance of reality TV star politicians who are edited into people’s hearts are so dangerous. Trump/Johnson/Widdecombe etc., the producers of those programmes have a lot to answer for. What should be rage against the economic system which keeps people from succeeding is being slyly shifted onto ‘the other’, whether that be the EU or immigrants and so on. It isn’t the working class who are to blame, they/we/I are pawns in a wider, global game. As you say, those inchoate feelings are present in Jerusalem but the catalyst to twist the characters towards the answers presented through Brexit is absent. It presents the landscape, as it were, but the pathway through it is unclear.; unfortunately, people have been presented with a very partial and misleading map through it (tortuously extended metaphor notwithstanding). |
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