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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2020 10:31:41 GMT
Ah ok then if it's still being advertised as such then it's only fair than that's what should be delivered. The original production is so well known that its especially not unreasonable for people to be expecting what's in London and on Broadway. that is false advertising
Regardless of whether you care about seeing a fresh take or not I find it amazing people seem so willing to accept misleading advertising in theatre. I cant think of any other aspects of life where people are so relaxed about whether they are getting what they are paying for. Nothing wrong with doing a new production, but just be open and advertise it as such.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2020 10:31:46 GMT
Ahhhhh now I remember why I left this place. Heaven forbid someone should express an opinion that differs to that of the majority. There is nothing wrong with a bit of healthy debate @mm , as long as nobody is being rude or aggressive, which I've not seen so far. Any opinion is going to be open to some counter argument. I'd hardly call some of the direct responses I've received "healthy debate". A bit like calling Daily Mail reporting "unbiased". |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2020 10:32:19 GMT
Except the original did tour, multiple times to multiple venues. Do we 'know' there is another chandelier? aside from a post on here? The first UK "tour" ran from 1993 until 1996, but was pretty much a sit-down production only playing in Manchester and Edinburgh (it ran for almost two years in Manchester). That was as close to an exact replica of the London production that you'll ever get, but they were installing a sit-down production there. And even that wasn't identical.
The second tour (also the original production) ran from 1998 to 2000. However, some of the stops were as long as 16 weeks, and it took around two weeks to set up at each venue. And again, that wasn't an exact replica either. To quote CamMack's technical co-ordinator at the time, "We have made a lot of things simpler. There used to be trapdoors in the floors and all sorts but it's not feasible to do that any more for this length of run." And there was no hoo-ha then.
This latest tour is playing much shorter runs (most around one month), with as little as four days between some stops. I find it amazing that people are complaining about minor insignificant adjustments to a show that was installed in London over 33 years ago, where it was designed to be a long-term fixture.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2020 10:35:26 GMT
Except the original did tour, multiple times to multiple venues. Do we 'know' there is another chandelier? aside from a post on here? ...complaining about minor insignificant adjustments ...
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Feb 22, 2020 10:36:26 GMT
Except the original did tour, multiple times to multiple venues. Do we 'know' there is another chandelier? aside from a post on here?
The second tour (also the original production) ran from 1998 to 2000. However, some of the stops were as long as 16 weeks, and it took around two weeks to set up at each venue. And again, that wasn't an exact replica either. To quote CamMack's technical co-ordinator at the time, "We have made a lot of things simpler. There used to be trapdoors in the floors and all sorts but it's not feasible to do that any more for this length of run." And there was no hoo-ha then.
There was no social media then. No social media = no hoo-ha |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2020 11:00:31 GMT
Except the original did tour, multiple times to multiple venues. Do we 'know' there is another chandelier? aside from a post on here? ...This latest tour is playing much shorter runs (most around one month), with as little as four days between some stops. I find it amazing that people are complaining about minor insignificant adjustments to a show that was installed in London over 33 years ago, where it was designed to be a long-term fixture. This is part of my frustration, that people are choosing to ignore. If at the very beginning, during the planning of this tour, after the routing, scheduling and budget demonstrated they weren't able to reproduce the Original on tour, they should not have marketed it as "The Brilliant Original". They intended to, and have made changes and as such this run should never has been sold as "the Brilliant Original" because its an adaption, technical or otherwise. This is based on the original and - as I see it - should have been sold as "based on the Brilliant Original". It could have prevented this disappointment around the changes. I know this is a such a insignificant detail for some people, but for others, some humans don't deal with changes well, especially when they're prepared for a situation, its comes down to anxieties and its uncompassionate to ignore this and belittle it. |
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Post by HereForTheatre on Feb 22, 2020 11:29:39 GMT
I meant to mention I actually walked past Cam on Thursday as I was getting off the train at St Pancras. About to head to Leicester to check in on the show I assume!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2020 11:43:13 GMT
...complaining about minor insignificant adjustments ...
I think my original post was misunderstood. i mean do we know another chandelier is definitely on it's way as mentioned higher up? |
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Post by 141920grm on Feb 22, 2020 13:37:30 GMT
Of course every production is a product of hard work of individuals and I’m not saying a cost-cut version is definitely worse than the West End one (well, jury’s still out on this one) BUT I’m with those here who are unhappy about this particular tour being marketed as one thing when it is obviously another- the biggest difference being the chandelier which we have actual photos of, now. I am seeing the show tonight and being a regular visitor to Her Majesty’s I am honestly nervous about which differences they think they can get away with.
With Leicester being the very first stop of this widely promoted “Brilliant Original” tour they can’t even get the theatre’s dimensions right for an optimum first preview?? We are talking about a major set/prop piece that plays a large part in the plot- not just minor blocking issues that can be ironed out after a few weeks- frankly that’s just straight up irresponsible and I would definitely say they have been dishonest with us regarding this Leicester leg (if they really are going to have the original chandelier in Manchester like a previous poster has claimed). I wonder if they will offer a proper explanation if enough people bring this chandelier issue up. To me it is quite a big difference/issue- the design is of a different era and completely clashes with the aesthetics of the rest of the set which is an iconic aspect of the “Brilliant Original” production in itself.
If anyone on here is going to make an official complaint I will support it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2020 16:14:37 GMT
For me, it’s not just the chandelier. It’s the physical framing of the show. They’ve had a massive overhaul of the proscenium.
In my opinion, reframing the entire show, changes the visual aesthetic and perception of the entire show. It’s not an opulent frame around the stage. It’s stark and disjointed and lacking in structure. I’ll watch the whole show through a complete new viewpoint and will perceive this show as new show.
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Post by 141920grm on Feb 22, 2020 18:58:21 GMT
Hm, I suppose the proscenium is where I would be willing to give them a little leeway- as much as (I hope) one would try to go for theatres with a similar stage/proscenium size for a touring show, no two are the same and it would be awkward to try to cram a fixed-size proscenium onto every stage whether it looks right for that particular stage or not Much more to be discussed after this evening’s show  |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Feb 22, 2020 19:26:01 GMT
On the last tour and in the absence of the Angel did the phantom do his “I gave you my music” soliloquy from a new piece off set or did they just have him hiding behind a gargoyle or something. I don’t remember.
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Post by richey on Feb 22, 2020 19:45:23 GMT
On the last tour and in the absence of the Angel did the phantom do his “I gave you my music” soliloquy from a new piece off set or did they just have him hiding behind a gargoyle or something. I don’t remember. didn't he appear from behind a statue that had been through the whole scene? I remember he appeared in box 5 at the very end and shot from his stick at the chandelier |
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Post by richey on Feb 22, 2020 19:54:17 GMT
Some pre-show photos appearing in Instagram already. The proscenium has virtually no surrounding statues or figures so looks very bare and the only drapes are onstage and on the chandelier which is already in place. Looks like Cam Mac is there.
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Post by londonmzfitz on Feb 22, 2020 23:11:41 GMT
Said "friend" saw the dress run last night and said the show is beautiful. A few differences here and there but majority the same as London. He said it looks very sleek and fresh and that seeing it looking so clean was like being transported back to when the London show was brand new. I'm going tonight. (also, he confirmed that the new chandelier doesn't fit the Curve ceiling as it's too big and will be added in Manchester). Can't wait!! I thought the Chandelier looked fabulous. Suspended directly above row C and D (front and second row), does a terrific fall to just above head height, lots of "oooooooo's" from the audience. |
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Post by londonmzfitz on Feb 22, 2020 23:18:04 GMT
In the brilliant original there are those dummies in fancy dress on the masquerade staircase and if an actor touches them by accident they wobble a bit... 🙂 They are in this too! Personally I love them, Masquerade is probably my favourite ensemble number, the dummies look great. |
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Post by londonmzfitz on Feb 22, 2020 23:21:23 GMT
The Christine in a wedding dress dummy is a bit wobbly too... It's a real actress in the dress under the cover (seat D21, I was very close). Saw her scooting off stage at the end of the scene |
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Post by Scots UK Theatre on Feb 22, 2020 23:38:59 GMT
Killian has extended his contract through to Edinburgh. Not doing last week in Edinburgh. Casting for that week onwards to be announced. |
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Post by londonmzfitz on Feb 22, 2020 23:40:14 GMT
On the last tour and in the absence of the Angel did the phantom do his “I gave you my music” soliloquy from a new piece off set or did they just have him hiding behind a gargoyle or something. I don’t remember. The roof scene has a huge sculpture of a horse, as Christine and Raul exit the set turns slowly to reveal the Phantom at the horses head. Hope that isn't a spoiler, I'm typing one fingered on my iPad but I wanted to address some of the - shall we call them concerns, rather than complaints about a show which had its first paying audience just a few hours ago ... ..? Killian was so, so good. I thought maybe in the casting he was too young, but he carries this extremely well. Holly-Anne Hull has a great voice although I did wonder if the sound levels need tweaking .. A handsome Raul in Rhys Whitfield, good voice. The audience were, how can I put this. Generally older. A long time to bring the curtain up for the encore at the end, oddly, the applause from that final scene was thinning out. Ive seen Phantom several times in London and seriously couldn't see any difference between this and London, I saw it in Vegas in 2006 or 2007 ... I'm perfectly content with the show I've just seen. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2020 23:52:30 GMT
I have a feeling Jon Robyns could take over - Les Mis cast change is October so it may fit
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Post by carmella1 on Feb 23, 2020 0:02:55 GMT
Its like these actors go from one Cam Mac show to another. Or really just LM and Phantom, just different parts. Cam certainly has his favorites. I really thought David Thaxton was going to get the tour or the WE but I guess not enough of a favorite. But really even he would be going LM to Phantom as he has in the past. I am not that big of a Killian fan but its not me that has to be.
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Post by Theatrefan48 on Feb 23, 2020 0:34:41 GMT
Its like these actors go from one Cam Mac show to another. Or really just LM and Phantom, just different parts. Cam certainly has his favorites. I really thought David Thaxton was going to get the tour or the WE but I guess not enough of a favorite. But really even he would be going LM to Phantom as he has in the past. I am not that big of a Killian fan but its not me that has to be. We will see, apparently its john partridge... Loved the show tonight, will post thoughts later. |
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Post by 141920grm on Feb 23, 2020 1:17:21 GMT
Accepted the chandelier would be different this venue. Still in a bit of a shock from the completely new rooftop scene, the final few seconds of Killian’s line (while he was great) the way the set piece moved back with him still on it was so awkwardly dragged out I had to hold back a nervous giggle.
Biggest gripe was how they changed some iconic lines in the libretto (chandelier introduction at the auction) and added bits of score (that prolonged rumbling to let the statue fully swing out) to accommodate the non-Brilliant Original changes... Also quite surprised by a major lyric change during the final lair, won’t post spoilers.
Generally felt that the minor costume/wig/blocking changes seemed like changes for changes’ sake (therefore unnecessary), the major set/prop changes- because they couldn’t have the original chandelier lift off or the descending angel- don’t feel fully integrated with the rest the show yet. Perhaps seeing it a few more times will get me used to it, but if you’re familiar with the West End show you will be unpleasantly surprised and feel an urge to laugh...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2020 7:12:48 GMT
Its like these actors go from one Cam Mac show to another. Or really just LM and Phantom, just different parts. Cam certainly has his favorites. I really thought David Thaxton was going to get the tour or the WE but I guess not enough of a favorite. But really even he would be going LM to Phantom as he has in the past. I am not that big of a Killian fan but its not me that has to be. To be fair musical theatre isnt exactly overflowing with decent roles for men. Once you outgrow the young handsome teen/twenty something not much until the character actor parts in 50+ The thought of John Partridge as the Phantom fills me with dread |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Feb 23, 2020 7:59:47 GMT
Short Christine wig? What’s that mean? Pixie crop? Bob? Lopsided wedge? Noooooooooo! 😱
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