|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2020 13:24:21 GMT
Thanks for the tip - just watched.
The 25th tour was underrated I truly believe. Yes I agree it's not as good as the original, and certainly it's not as good as it's older sister, the 25th Les Mis.
But it was good, and provided a great solution to touring the show easily to more venues. Shows should be re-staged and re-conceived. And although on this occasion it didn't click how the original did and (unlike Les Mis) could not replace it; it was still a good effort and a very enjoyable evening.
|
|
2,778 posts
|
Post by daniel on Jan 31, 2020 13:48:15 GMT
Thanks for the tip - just watched. The 25th tour was underrated I truly believe. Yes I agree it's not as good as the original, and certainly it's not as good as it's older sister, the 25th Les Mis. But it was good, and provided a great solution to touring the show easily to more venues. Shows should be re-staged and re-conceived. And although on this occasion it didn't click how the original did and (unlike Les Mis) could not replace it; it was still a good effort and a very enjoyable evening. Interestingly I saw the tour before I saw the London show, and I really enjoyed it. As a contrast, I found the London production to be tired, dated and phoned-in by some of the cast. Personally I’m excited for this tour as I would love to see the original designs etc, but a slightly fresher production than that which is currently running in town. |
|
1,323 posts
|
Post by londonmzfitz on Jan 31, 2020 17:41:50 GMT
On the most recent UK tour, the chandelier started (as I recall) hanging above the front stalls, approximately 2/3 of the way towards the ceiling, covered in a sack. During the auction scene, when they are talking about the chandelier, it slowly lowered, and then at the start of the overture the sack pulls away revealing the chandelier, lit in all of it's sparkly glory. It would then rise vertically to the ceiling during the overture. At the end of Act I, Erik would appear in the fake box, fire his magic shooty wand stick towards the chandelier, it would wobble, kinda pop and some sugar glass would fall to the floor. In the US tour (which used the UK set) the chandelier actually falls vertically towards the stalls, but still doesn't go anywhere near the stage. (there is footage of this on a well-known video sharing site. I won't link to it for copyright reasons but it's easy enough to find). As for what will happen with this tour, given how angry people were to see now chandelier drop, I would like to think that they would implement the US-style vertical drop, but equally I wouldn't be surprised if we get the same sequence as the last UK tour. This sounds like the show at The Venetian in Las Vegas. It was quite low over the stalls and from our seats rear stalls my friend was peed off when we sat down, moaning about "that thing" being in our eyeline .... |
|
19,793 posts
|
Post by BurlyBeaR on Jan 31, 2020 17:52:24 GMT
The chandelier in the Poland vid on YouTube looks friggin’ huge!
|
|
|
|
Post by scarpia on Feb 1, 2020 20:46:31 GMT
Excuse the rant, but I've had it with Cameron Mackintosh. This is piss poor and unacceptable. If it’s no longer economically viable to tour the actual “Brilliant Original” Phantom, then fine – but be honest about it! Don’t bill it as the “Brilliant Original” in all the publicity and advertising! And for heaven’s sake, don’t insult our intelligence with ridiculously PR-managed comments in that publicity video which makes spurious claims that this is any kind of improvement on what Hal Prince, Maria Björnson and Andrew Bridge achieved in 1986. The set looks even worse than the current World Tour. Not only is the Angel missing (it’ll be replaced by a tacky statue, à la Laurence Connor crap we got in 2012), but what on earth is going on with the proscenium sculptures? They’ve also replaced the chandelier with that very odd- (and IMHO cheap-) looking Regency one, rather than the original which is based on the actual chandelier in the Paris Opera House. I had a horrible feeling when Hal Prince passed away that Cameron Mackintosh was going to capitalise on that by taking an axe to his beautiful production and making it as cheap as possible to line his already well-lined pockets. I hope the audience who comes to see it react in the same way as audiences did in 2012 to that awful restaged ‘SPECTACULAR’ production; when I went to see that, many people in the audience remembered the previous full-scale tours of the original production and didn’t have much nice to say about what they were seeing in its place. I’ve got my tickets, anyway, but I suspect I will need to see the show again in London to remind myself of the beauty of the true ‘Brilliant Original’. I used to have massive respect for Sir Cameron in the 1990s when he insisted that tour audiences should not get a lower-quality product that West End and Broadway ones. He’s now chucked that philosophy out the window and is going into full Kenwright mode, destroying his legacy in the process and simultaneously disrespecting a Broadway legend who’s barely cold in his grave. Hmmmm, this is a bit harsh. Especially as we haven't even seen the set yet! To compare Dame Cameron to Kenwright is just mad - they are still chasms apart. And he really has remained one of the few to bring West End quality to the regions. Miss Saigon (very recently) and Les Mis (now) are the same! And Mary Poppins in the West End now is the same as the recent tour. We will have to wait and see how Phantom turns out. But I feel sure the quality will be good. We've seen the set model in quite some detail. It's obvious what's happening. And yes, Poppins, Miz and Saigon are now the same in the West End as the tour version because Cameron replaced them with the cheaper touring versions in the West End! That's not subscribing to the initial philosophy of touring audiences deserving the best; it's simply dumbing down the productions in the West End. Erm, Phantom has toured the UK (and the US) on multiple occasions in the past. They did not remove the Angel or dumb down the chandelier in those previous tours. There is precedent here. Cameron just wants to make a faster buck. |
|
|
|
Post by scarpia on Feb 1, 2020 20:51:19 GMT
It's definitely not how Maria Björnson intended it. She is on record on having vetoed the removal of the Angel from the proscenium when they discussed doing this in the US tour in the 1990s, as she felt it was integral to the piece.
As for the production not being 'exactly as experienced' in London or New York, why did the head of Really Useful say it would be an 'exact replica' in the publicity piece in the Daily Mail?
How many 'years in the making' was this production? Does this mean CML was planning it even while his 'SPECTACULAR' new production that disappointed audiences around the country was doing wobbly business at the box office, even though Sir Cameron stated it was 'as warmly received' as the original?
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2020 9:29:44 GMT
We've seen the set model in quite some detail. It's obvious what's happening. And yes, Poppins, Miz and Saigon are now the same in the West End as the tour version because Cameron replaced them with the cheaper touring versions in the West End! That's not subscribing to the initial philosophy of touring audiences deserving the best; it's simply dumbing down the productions in the West End. Erm, Phantom has toured the UK (and the US) on multiple occasions in the past. They did not remove the Angel or dumb down the chandelier in those previous tours. There is precedent here. Cameron just wants to make a faster buck. Believe me, nobody mourns the loss of the mega musical more than I do and if Les Mis (Palace) Saigon (Drury Lane) and the original Poppins were still in the West End I'd be very happy. But that's not how musicals are made now; not by Cameron, not by anyone! These 'tour' versions remain the best of the touring circuit by a long way and even in the West End are the most lavish productions there. Cameron is a producer and no doubt wants to make money, but saying he dumbs down production values when he is one of the few preserving them is not only unfair, it's incorrect. And as for #Chandelier/Angel-gate we really do need to wait to see this production before judging. |
|
19,793 posts
|
Post by BurlyBeaR on Feb 2, 2020 9:39:50 GMT
Can’t help but wonder if CM is going to pull the Les Mis trick with POTO.
Has the original version ever been updated whist in situ ay Her Majestys? Anything they’ve done must presumably be on a small scale to avoid interrupting the schedule. So is all of the technology that of four decades ago? Sounds expensive to run, so isn’t the smart (from a business perspective) approach be to rip it out and bring the whole thing into the 21st century?
Prepare for the scramble for tickets to the staged concert... Ramin, Sierra and Brightman as Carlotta!
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2020 9:56:47 GMT
Can’t help but wonder if CM is going to pull the Les Mis trick with POTO. Has the original version ever been updated whist in situ ay Her Majestys? Anything they’ve done must presumably be on a small scale to avoid interrupting the schedule. So is all of the technology that of four decades ago? Sounds expensive to run, so isn’t the smart (from a business perspective) approach be to rip it out and bring the whole thing into the 21st century? Prepare for the scramble for tickets to the staged concert... Ramin, Sierra and Brightman as Carlotta! The sound was re-designed and made digital (whatever that means) about 10 years ago. Other than that, very little I think. It's still mentioned in the programme how all the old technology is still being used. Agree while may have been quaint in 2016, must be a very non economic way of running things now. I have never quite understood if the ultimate decision maker for Phantom productions is ALW or CM. Certainly the latter seems to control the advertising and have the ideas for tours and special events as it's all so similar to Les Mis. And was CM at the tour cast rehearsals vid above. So for someone who likes to control everything, ALW seems, in my opinion, to let CM lead quite a lot on Phantom. Though quite who has the bigger share as producer, who knows.... |
|
7,189 posts
|
Post by Jon on Feb 3, 2020 16:53:49 GMT
Can’t imagine they’d replace the production at Her Majesty’s unless ALW decides to refurbish the theatre.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2020 13:08:08 GMT
Can’t help but wonder if CM is going to pull the Les Mis trick with POTO. Has the original version ever been updated whist in situ ay Her Majestys? Anything they’ve done must presumably be on a small scale to avoid interrupting the schedule. So is all of the technology that of four decades ago? Sounds expensive to run, so isn’t the smart (from a business perspective) approach be to rip it out and bring the whole thing into the 21st century? Prepare for the scramble for tickets to the staged concert... Ramin, Sierra and Brightman as Carlotta! Other than that, very little I think. It's still mentioned in the programme how all the old technology is still being used. Agree while may have been quaint in 2016, must be a very non economic way of running things now. I have never quite understood if the ultimate decision maker for Phantom productions is ALW or CM. Certainly the latter seems to control the advertising and have the ideas for tours and special events as it's all so similar to Les Mis. And was CM at the tour cast rehearsals vid above. So for someone who likes to control everything, ALW seems, in my opinion, to let CM lead quite a lot on Phantom. Though quite who has the bigger share as producer, who knows.... True. There have been minor technical tweaks (like new radio microphones, mixing desks, keyboards etc) along the way but some of the lighting fixtures are veritably antique now and most of the shows on-stage automation is hand and foot driven using the sub-stage Victorian machinery; somewhat of a major bragging right now Theatre Royal Drury Lane has been decimated. However, in a world of health and safety legislation and the ongoing precedent to rip out anything older than 100 years, I also suspect this could be a dry run for a London revamp.
Though quite who has the bigger share as producer, who knows....
This tour is a Cameron Macintosh Ltd production, having got the rights from RUG, so it's Really Useful Group under CML's jurisdiction. ALW is probably happy with the performance rights of his score and book flowing through whilst he focuses his energy on Cinderella. |
|
|
|
Post by 141920grm on Feb 5, 2020 19:52:20 GMT
However, in a world of health and safety legislation and the ongoing precedent to rip out anything older than 100 years, I also suspect this could be a dry run for a London revamp. God I hope not...! This may be wishful thinking but surely they could subtly mechanise the machinery/upgrade the lighting tech without touching the actual contents of the show? "If it ain't broke" and all that... If they want to call it the "brilliant original" the most I can accept is, say, a few degrees' difference in colour temperature of the lighting because the older bulbs are less energy-efficient or something 😂😂 NOT restaging half of it or simply because it's cheaper and easier to have a vertical drop chandelier!! |
|
2,263 posts
|
Post by richey on Feb 6, 2020 8:07:08 GMT
Well they've upped the publicity a notch in Manchester as we now have a rather lovely Phantom of the Opera liveried tram which I saw on my way to work this morning.
|
|
|
|
Post by Theatrefan48 on Feb 9, 2020 7:23:37 GMT
Chandelier news! So, my friend who is in the know says that apparently there has been a problem with the new chandelier and that they have had to bring in the US tour one as a temporary measure while they sort the new one. Also the Curve is not the largest theatre in the world. Perhaps the new one just didn't fit.
|
|
|
|
Post by scarpia on Feb 9, 2020 15:02:25 GMT
Chandelier news! So, my friend who is in the know says that apparently there has been a problem with the new chandelier and that they have had to bring in the US tour one as a temporary measure while they sort the new one. Also the Curve is not the largest theatre in the world. Perhaps the new one just didn't fit. Do they mean the recent US tour one, as opposed to the replica tours of the 90s and early 2000s? In which case, that hideous light fixture that looks more like a hotel lobby piece than the chandelier in the Palais Garnier has nothing to do with Maria Björnson, so they should adjust their advertising accordingly. I doubt that will change in London; it's part of the history/charm of the production, although they don't advertise it enough. They didn't have to use the Victorian machinery when they conceived the show but when they found it was still in working order, they incorporated it into the show. When the show then transferred to other countries, they used computer technology but Hal Prince decided it was too 'clean', so even on Broadway where computers are used, it is done in a way to make (for example) the rising of the candelabra during the boat scene slightly off and juddery to mimic the London effect. |
|
4,179 posts
|
Post by HereForTheatre on Feb 9, 2020 15:12:01 GMT
Surely they would have measured these things beforehand to make sure it could fit?
|
|
38 posts
|
Post by mjr on Feb 10, 2020 17:24:31 GMT
I did wonder whether they might close the london production at some point for a few week's and replace major set pieces that have had their day. The noise the dressing room make's when it is moved on and off is rather noticeable!
|
|
1,061 posts
Member is Online
|
Post by David J on Feb 15, 2020 1:52:52 GMT
Had a 'become a member' leaflet today from the Mayflower Theatre, Southampton saying the show will be coming February 2021
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2020 6:37:35 GMT
Yea was announced a few days ago. top price £75! will wait for first reports on the tour before I decide
|
|
661 posts
|
Post by Oleanna on Feb 15, 2020 19:12:03 GMT
A week until this begins performances. Anybody going to the first preview?
|
|
|
|
Post by 141920grm on Feb 15, 2020 22:41:20 GMT
A week until this begins performances. Anybody going to the first preview? I am! By the way, more tickets have just been released for Leicester including first preview- box seats that seem pretty close to the stage! |
|
8 posts
|
Post by Tommie on Feb 16, 2020 13:14:41 GMT
From images on social media, it seems “the Brilliant Original” is going on tour with a much smaller orchestra. Happy to see live strings and woodwind, but no sign of trumpets or trombones - they seem to be replaced by three keyboards. Whilst this was probably completely expected, I can’t deny that I’m growing more and more disappointed by the day.
|
|
2,452 posts
|
Post by theatremadness on Feb 16, 2020 14:31:45 GMT
From images on social media, it seems “the Brilliant Original” is going on tour with a much smaller orchestra. Happy to see live strings and woodwind, but no sign of trumpets or trombones - they seem to be replaced by three keyboards. Whilst this was probably completely expected, I can’t deny that I’m growing more and more disappointed by the day. In the pics I think you're talking about (on twitter?) I can see a French horn I think, behind the woodwind? And a chair next to her that seems empty so that may be another brass player - also some woodwind players may double? Surely it can't just be one French horn....I've no idea though! But Phantom has the largest orchestra in the west end (27 I think? That or thereabouts) so it would've been a big ask to have that size on tour haha |
|
|
|
Post by singularsensation10 on Feb 16, 2020 17:00:13 GMT
From images on social media, it seems “the Brilliant Original” is going on tour with a much smaller orchestra. Happy to see live strings and woodwind, but no sign of trumpets or trombones - they seem to be replaced by three keyboards. Whilst this was probably completely expected, I can’t deny that I’m growing more and more disappointed by the day. Honestly, most shows are tracked these days and the likelihood is that this will be tracked too. You won’t notice a difference really, it will still sound as full, if not fuller, than a live orchestra. It also allows the piece to sound consistent every show. I’m not confirming that it will be tracked but it would make sense and would really not surprise me. The quality of the sound is always fuller and more consistent when shows are tracked. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2020 19:55:35 GMT
Killian has extended his contract through to Edinburgh.
|
|
