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Post by latefortheoverture on May 23, 2019 1:55:57 GMT
Couldn't find a thread so started one.
Just back from this tonight- what an outstanding film. It's a very stylised way of telling Elton's story. A very theatrical way. A very Elton way! I've loved Elton's music for years and was very excited for it, and it did't disappoint!
Taron Egerton was unreal in this, he will round up a lot of praise and hopefully some awards. Liked him since kingsman and she seems so humble and deserving of it. Richard Madden done a good job, as I hated his character by the end. But a special mention to Gemma Jones as Ivy (Elton's Grandma) I absolutely loved her. West End alum Celinde Schoenmaker also appears as Renata and does a great job, considering as it's her big film debut!
The structure of it all is very similar to how a show would be, which makes me wonder as this could pretty much translate to the stage now. The whole flashback and dreams, with big dance numbers really do make me wonder as I imagine it could be fairly likely.
This film was more than I expected, and although in some area's it could've easily been cut down, I left feeling overjoyed. A real rollercoaster ride of emotions. I didn't realise quite how bad his abuse was.
Taron was the real standout in this, can't wait to see what he does next!
Has anyone else seen it yet? What did you make of it?
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Post by greeny11 on May 23, 2019 5:12:39 GMT
I pretty much agree with everything you said - I thought it was absolutely brilliant. The fantasy aspect worked well, as did the flashbacks (which is not something I normally like). Taron Egerton is phenomenal in this - I really hope he gets recognised for his work in this as he really does a fantastic job of becoming Elton. His voice really suits the songs too. I thought most of the supporting cast were great too - Jamie Bell and Richard Madden were fantastic, I was less keen on Bryce Dallas Howard as his mother though. It was nice to see a number of West End actors in small parts in this - Celinde Schoenmaker, Jason Pennycooke, Alexia Khadime, Rachel Muldoon and Tom Bennett among others.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2019 11:37:56 GMT
I’m so excited to see this, glad it’s getting good early buzz.
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Post by latefortheoverture on May 23, 2019 11:47:04 GMT
Yes- something about her didn't click, Bryce Dallas Howard. She's a great actress, I loved her in black mirror, but she was a little off. Her accent wasn't the strongest in some ways this was her let down. I don't know Elton's mum so don't know how she's meant to be portrayed; but she came across very cold, even in the younger days I thought she might've had a bit more love from her... {Spoiler - click to view}
The scene where he leaves his Dad's house was heartbreaking; when he picks up the younger boy.
Also loved how it kept cutting back to the meeting and every time he was taking something else off, stripping back the theatrical front he puts on. Sharon D Clarke was great! The more I think about it, the greater it gets! This film will stand the test of time, no doubt. Someone said as we we're leaving, 'It's everything Bohemian Rhapsody wanted to be and more.' Which isn't a bad way of putting it! |
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Post by kathryn on May 23, 2019 11:57:14 GMT
Saw it Monday night at a Limitless preview and haven’t shut up about it since! It’s everything that other recent 70s rock biopic should have been - flamboyant, joyous, emotional, a little bit surreal, honest and gay!
And there’ll be no complaints about poor editing on this one, either - the production values are really high and you can tell it has been made with a huge amount of love and care, without cutting corners.
It’s obviously not a literal or historically accurate telling of events - the songs are placed to illuminate the emotional journey of the main character with very little regard as to when they were actually written. In fact, if you didn’t know anything about Elton at all you could watch it as a musical about a fictional rockstar without the film losing much resonance - it’s astonishing just how well the music is integrated into the storytelling, you’d think that had been written deliberately for it.
It’s not perfect, though - there’s one early number that doesn’t quite work, and it does tip over into cheesy at the end. But it’s easy to forgive it those flaws.
Taron is incredible - so wonderful to see an actor giving a proper character performance instead of doing an impersonation of a public persona. You really feel what he is going through in the film, and ‘show not tell’ means it gets away with shorthand for certain major life events without huge chunks of exposition, because what’s really going on is written all over Taron’s face.
Richard Madden is sexy and villainous as John Reid but the film treats the start of the love affair between him and Elton in a lovely way. It’s absolutely clear that their attraction for each other is not the problem and that, despite what Elton’s mother tells him, his problems do not stem from being gay. It’s possibly the first film I’ve seen - let alone the first mainstream studio film - that actually ends on pictures of a gay couple and their children to show how happy the main character is, and that does feel pretty remarkable.
Clearly they’re not hoping to release it in China....
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Post by Dave25 on May 23, 2019 12:21:44 GMT
Does Celinde Schoenmaker also sing in the film?
There is a duet with her and Taron on Itunes (Don't let the sun go down on me), but often only half of those tracks is in the actual film, just like in Mamma Mia, here we go again.
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Post by kathryn on May 23, 2019 13:18:18 GMT
Does Celinde Schoenmaker also sing in the film? There is a duet with her and Taron on Itunes (Don't let the sun go down on me), but often only half of those tracks is in the actual film, just like in Mamma Mia, here we go again. Yes. |
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Post by latefortheoverture on May 23, 2019 14:44:34 GMT
Does Celinde Schoenmaker also sing in the film? There is a duet with her and Taron on Itunes (Don't let the sun go down on me), but often only half of those tracks is in the actual film, just like in Mamma Mia, here we go again. Yes, one of my favourite moments in the film. Don't let the sun go down on me is my favourite Elton song without a shadow of doubt- and as it begun I got goosebumps. I'm quite the fan of Celinde, I saw her twice in Les Mis, and twice in Phantom. I'm so happy for her!! Whilst her role isn't massive, it's definitely vital to Elton's story. Cannot wait to go see this film again. |
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Post by stuartmcd on May 23, 2019 15:07:08 GMT
This film really was Elton John the musical and it’s wonderful. Thoroughly enjoyed the whole thing.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on May 24, 2019 14:34:18 GMT
Is Taron doing an Elton impersonation on the singing then?
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Post by kathryn on May 24, 2019 14:59:23 GMT
Is Taron doing an Elton impersonation on the singing then? No, not an impersonation at all - more evoking a sense of him. There's the odd moment where he sounds quite close on some tracks, but he's not really attempting to mimic him. The songs are revealing of character, so they're given different emotional interpretations than the originals had in most cases. Plus, it would have been impossible to mimic him all the way through because the songs are not presented in chronological order - they are placed like songs written for musical, to serve the story - so there are times when child and teenage Elton are singing songs originally performed by Elton in middle-age. |
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Post by Jon on May 25, 2019 3:10:12 GMT
I really liked it, the first 10 minutes take a while to get going but it picks up the pace once Taron Egerton appears as adult Elton who really captures his essence without being an imitation.
I think presenting it as a fantasy musical worked really well, it's Elton's story how he sees it in his head rather than how it actually happened. I quite seeing various West End performers in small roles although Leigh Francis aka Keith Lemon makes a small cameo which a non UK audience wouldn't notice but it's a bit jarring.
Jamie Bell as Bernie Taupin was good and you could tell in many scenes that Bernie cared for Elton, Richard Madden also was good but I wonder how the real John Reid feels about his portrayal because he did not come across well at all, likewise Elton's Mum and Dad as well.
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Post by kathryn on May 25, 2019 9:25:12 GMT
Apparently John Reid did see the script and gave it his blessing/promised not to sue.
He settled a legal dispute with Elton out of court in the late 90s that ended with him paying back a few million pounds he had spent of Elton’s money, so I suspect there’s another factor at play there. While the film does not depict him as a nice man it definitely doesn’t suggest that he is a bad or dishonest business manager.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2019 21:58:53 GMT
This missed the mark for me I'm afraid, and it was the fantasy sequences that ruined it for me.
Yes, they are of course the sort of flamboyant indulgence that typifies Elton John, so in that respect they are very fitting, but I found they distracted from the story rather than furthering it.
There are also a few other issues - I agree Bryce Dallas Howard is miscast, I found her performance completely baffling. The camera work would at times cause motion sickness to anyone who is sensitive to that, and I thought the pacing of the whole film was wrong.
That said, there is quite a lot to like as well - the music is extremely well done, especially the instrumental underscore. The costumes and sets are as glitzy as you would expect. On the acting front, Gemma Jones and Jamie Bell are great, Richard Madden is fine and playing "spot the West End performers" is a lot of fun (Sharon D Clarke especially is very good). But the film is really worth seeing for Taron Edgerton alone - he is really exceptional, a truly memorable performance acting-wise. A decent effort on the singing front too, though I was a little disappointed with Goodbye Yellow Brick Road.
So a mixed bag for me overall - a lot to like, but it didn't fully click for me, and I don't feel the need to see it again
If we're going to do the obvious biopic comparison that all the reviews seem to be doing, I preferred Bohemian Rhapsody by miles.
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Post by kathryn on May 25, 2019 22:51:44 GMT
I’ve seen a few people saying similar things. I think people either get the idea of what the fantasy sequences are trying to do or they don’t.
It worked for me because I really loved the conceit of it being one person’s not necessarily accurate recollection of their drug-inflected life. It is explicitly told from Elton’s perspective.
That’s a get-out-of-jail-free card that Bohemian Rhapsody never played, preferring instead to ape objectivity and give the impression of verisimilitude while actually taking huge and obvious liberties with the truth. It is never up-front about its point of view although it clearly permeates the film.
As a result Bohemian Rhapsody felt profoundly dishonest to me even as I was watching it, while Rocketman feels like it achieves a level of emotional truth that is rare in the more traditional biopic format.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2019 0:00:53 GMT
I’ve seen a few people saying similar things. I think people either get the idea of what the fantasy sequences are trying to do or they don’t. It worked for me because I really loved the conceit of it being one person’s not necessarily accurate recollection of their drug-inflected life. It is explicitly told from Elton’s perspective. That’s a get-out-of-jail-free card that Bohemian Rhapsody never played, preferring instead to ape objectivity and give the impression of verisimilitude while actually taking huge and obvious liberties with the truth. It is never up-front about its point of view although it clearly permeates the film. As a result Bohemian Rhapsody felt profoundly dishonest to me even as I was watching it, while Rocketman feels like it achieves a level of emotional truth that is rare in the more traditional biopic format. I think it's a bit unfair to say people either get what the fantasy sequences are trying to do or they don't - that's a bit of an insult to people's intelligence (mine included). I get what they were trying to do, I just didn't think it was a good filmmaking decision and it created significant problems with the story flow for me that affected its overall quality. Yes, they are obviously part of the point of it being a drug-addled recollection, but that didn't enhance the film for me and it actually detracted from my enjoyment of it as a film. I would think everyone knows that all biopics aren't entirely truthful, and certainly I don't think Bohemian Rhapsody ever claimed to be - they were actually upfront in all the publicity for the film about how they were telling a story of Freddie, not the whole story. Anyone could figure it out anyway given it was rated PG. But what BR did do was tell a pretty much linear narrative that was generally evenly paced and didn't drown in psychedelia. That's not any more dishonest than this one in my book as neither claims to be the truth, it's just different narrative style. And for me that more real, linear style made it a much more watchable film than this one regardless of how close it was to the whole truth. The get out of jail free card doesn't work for me, I prefer my biopics to actually be in biopic style. |
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2019 7:40:17 GMT
I’ve seen a few people saying similar things. I think people either get the idea of what the fantasy sequences are trying to do or they don’t. It worked for me because I really loved the conceit of it being one person’s not necessarily accurate recollection of their drug-inflected life. It is explicitly told from Elton’s perspective. That’s a get-out-of-jail-free card that Bohemian Rhapsody never played, preferring instead to ape objectivity and give the impression of verisimilitude while actually taking huge and obvious liberties with the truth. It is never up-front about its point of view although it clearly permeates the film. As a result Bohemian Rhapsody felt profoundly dishonest to me even as I was watching it, while Rocketman feels like it achieves a level of emotional truth that is rare in the more traditional biopic format. Your last paragraph sums up my issues with BoRap better than every single review I read of it. |
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Post by kathryn on May 26, 2019 8:52:05 GMT
@posterj no insult intended - I meant ‘get’ as more of a ‘it works for me’ gut-level response than an intellectual one.
I’ve also seen a few reviewers complain about the song-to-dramatic scenes ratio who seem not to grasp on a gut level that the songs *are* the drama.
It’s not a biopic, really - it’s a musical. A jukebox musical like Jersey Boys or Beautiful. It’s blending the theatrical and cinematic formats quite deliberately, I think - Elton is pretty steeped in movie musicals and musical theatre, after all. It feels appropriate to me.
The BR approach didn’t feel appropriate because it was so formulaic and staid, it didn’t at all reflect the spirit of the band or of Freddie. Queen in their heyday were all about excess and excitement, about escapism and entertainment. They were outrageous and cheeky and funny. The film doesn’t capture that at all - it is too scared of offending middle-America to even hint at what the band was really like. Which is why you get howlers like the rest of the band leaving parties early to go home to their wives and children - as if *any* 70s rockers did that!
I don’t expect complete factual accuracy from a biopic - of course not, that’s impossible - but it should attempt to capture the spirit of the truth. BR didn’t do that at all. It felt more like an advertisement than an artistic endeavour. And I really objected to that homophobic streak it had, and the implication that Freddie was to blame for his death - which I think was there because it’s what the conservative audience they wanted to appeal to genuinely think about gay AIDS victims.
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Post by Jon on May 26, 2019 11:10:21 GMT
I like BR but you could tell Brian and Roger are very protective of the Queen brand as the portrayal of themselves was saintly and almost as if they were tutting at Freddie’s hedonism.
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Post by talkingheads on May 26, 2019 11:43:50 GMT
Well this beat Bohemian Rhapsody hands down. The use of the music to tell the story rather than it being a chronological part of it really elevated it, the Crocodile Rock sequence in particular is joyous. I really liked Jamie Bell as Bernie Taupin, when they meet in the cafe is such a sweet scene and I really felt for him when Elton started on his excesses. Stephen Graham is as ever brilliant value, making the most of his few scenes. My favourite John track is I Guess That's Why They Call It The Blues so I was disappointed that only a few bars were heard. Other than that, wonderful.
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Post by kathryn on May 26, 2019 12:18:33 GMT
I like BR but you could tell Brian and Roger are very protective of the Queen brand as the portrayal of themselves was saintly and almost as if they were tutting at Freddie’s hedonism. See, if they’d made that point-of-view an explicit feature of the film - if it had been framed as two men in their 70s looking back on their youth with regret - then I’d have found it more palatable. Impossible, though, because then they’d have to admit to some thoughts that are less than flattering. Though I thought the resentment shone through anyway, in all those scenes that were about how Freddie couldn’t have done it without them, *actually*. |
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Post by missbabs on May 26, 2019 13:48:05 GMT
I saw this yesterday. I genuinely think it's a bit of a masterpiece.
The marriage of music, story and visuals is thrilling and incredibly moving in many places. There are so many beautiful sequences in it, especially the 'Rocketman' sequence. Dexter Fletcher has created something special.
Taron Egerton is incredible: funny, brash, vulnerable...And his voice is great.
I can't wait to see this again.
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Post by theatre241 on May 26, 2019 21:24:49 GMT
I saw this today and I liked the structure of it! Ive never really seen a film this out there and clever. It is a proper musical fantasy which I haven't seen properly done for a long time. It reminded me of a jukebox musical at time and with a few changes it could transfer to the stage nicely. It is a "biopic" but I think its more of a musical fantasy. I still think musical films don't work lol!
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Post by xanady on May 26, 2019 21:54:47 GMT
Imo,RocketMan is stylistically light years ahead of BR which I found to be a pedestrian slog and rather mundane and tedious at times.
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Post by Being Alive on May 26, 2019 22:39:59 GMT
I’m kind of... dumbfounded by it.
Like I thought the film would be good, but I was blown over.
Taron Egerton is a revelation. It’s a performance that has the light and the dark nailed in equal ways. He just gets the essence of what Elton is (or what the film is trying to show him to be). I honestly would throw him in for an Oscar nom (better performance than Rami Malek for me)
Perfectly partnered with the delightful Jamie Bell as Bernie Taupin, who was again just fantastic.
Dexter Fletcher creates a masterpiece that is everything Bohemian Rhapsody should have been. It’s gritty, it’s not sanitised, it goes to those places that Bohemian Rhapsody should have done.
Oh, and the sequence from Rocket Man-hospital-downfall is a stunning piece of cinematography.
But my absolute highlight of the film, is the fragmented underscoring of my favourite song Goodbye Yellow Brick Road. Bit by bit, layer by layer, it builds until it comes in its devastating full at the 11 o’clock moment of the film.
If I hadn’t needed to go home, I’d have gone straight back in and watched it again. An absolute 5 stars, and without a doubt my film of the year (and I know it’s only May!)
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