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Post by Dave25 on May 18, 2019 12:07:00 GMT
I was wondering what people on the board think of this and I couldn't find another thread about it. Recently I read this article: www.theroot.com/ain-t-too-proud-to-sing-claiming-black-space-on-the-gr-1834448909Summary: "I visited a show. My mother is doing what black folks do at a musical, she sang along." "And then from two rows in front of me, a balding white man turns towards my mother and says, “SHUSH!” "This man shushed my mama?" "When intermission hit, I walked up to that man."Was that you who shushed earlier?” I asked. "Yes," he said, open and pleasant, as if he thought I was going to thank him for lending a hand to the larger, "well-trained" theater-going community. "Please don’t shush my mother again. I just wanted to let you know that it was not kind what you did and if you shush her again, I’m going to sing along with her." "Well," he said, “I didn’t pay money to hear your mother sing." "Oh, Black Jesus, help me. Was that a snub about my mama?" "And so I said, “Let me tell you something—When you entered this theater, you entered into black culture. People will sing along. It’s what we do. And if you wanted a quiet theater, you should’ve seen My Fair Lady.” "When I went back to my seat, my mother asked, “What did you say to him?” And I told her. And she laughed and laughed." She also talks about how she visited Hamilton once and made noise during the show and another horrible white man looked at her in an annoying way. Now, this is an American article and I have noticed that in current American society people can't look past race and make everything about race. I think we need to see this article in perspective. On American fora people are saying: That white gatekeeper needs to stfu, and those kind of comments are generally embraced and accepted there, as well as these kind of articles. In fact, if you suggest to look at people and the actual subject, your posts tend to get removed there. There is no life beyond race, they must think. But to me, this is all about human respect. To me, the gentleman was fighting for decency and respect but it was a lost cause unfortunately. Because the gentleman was right, he did not pay this amount of money to hear her mother sing. The fact that he had to explain himself is bad enough. How extremely rude to try and silence this gentleman by saying "when he walked into the theatre he entered black culture". He did not. He visited a show he was interested in and he wanted to concentrate on the actual show. I am wondering how other audience members reacted on this? The disdain for other people and races of this lady is unbelievable. I also don't get the "insulting white people's balding heads" for no reason. I believe the man would have shushed anyone making noise during the show. My opinion is, just because you can engage with the material on a different level, doesn’t mean you can act however you like in the theater. If I was in the audience and people were disturbing the show in any way I would shush them too. I would also accept an apology from the lady at intermission. But if I was assaulted like that at intermission, I would have had the lady removed from the theatre for the 2nd act. What are your opinions on this and have you had experiences like this? Edit: I think that all theatregoers should be some sort of "gatekeeper" in a way. People pay $170,- for a ticket and sometimes have to save money all year to be able to purchase one. It's just common sense and general respect.
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Post by orchidman on May 18, 2019 13:38:36 GMT
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Post by lynette on May 18, 2019 14:00:33 GMT
Well. Interesting and slightly terrifying. The theatre isn’t like church imo. Some theatre can invite and involve the audience. Panto would be a disaster if it didn’t. But I wouldn’t like someone to ‘emote’ with noises and shouting in a serious play like say, an Ibsen. I’ve often wondered if Shakespeare's audiences responded to questions and reacted audibly - who hasn’t wanted to shout out to Romeo, hang on a minute, she is alive - but there is convention and that says we listen and watch in silence. As for people‘picking on’ black people, well, I think that is a teeny bit paranoid. I don’t have the American experience of course but in London, I don’t think it would immediately come to mind that that women is giving me a ‘look’ when I scrabble in my noisy bag for another sweetie because I am black. Perhaps I am wrong. I am not inexperienced when it comes to veiled prejudice of another kind but I would be interested to read other members’ experiences.
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Post by Dawnstar on May 18, 2019 14:15:05 GMT
I think that if someone had just given me, for free, a ticket to a sold out show that I really wanted to see then I'd be a bit more grateful about it, irrespective of the giver's manners.
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Post by Dave25 on May 18, 2019 14:17:47 GMT
So this white woman gives her a free ticket for the show and she gets bratty behaviour, aggression and almost a slap in the face in return. Is this how far the victim role of black people is pushed these days? Bizarre. It's time for a reporting point for racism against white people. I would be much more grateful and respectful if someone had given me a ticket for free. Being less loud in the first place and especially after she aks me to be less loud and disturbing is a normal form of respect. She should thank that woman for the ticket and apologize to her. The writer of this article still has a lot to learn in life and needs to learn to start seeing people instead of color.
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Post by vabbian on May 18, 2019 14:26:22 GMT
Haha how is this a question
Who cares if you're black or white or green, shut the f*** up
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Post by Dave25 on May 18, 2019 14:43:31 GMT
"Well. Interesting and slightly terrifying. The theatre isn’t like church imo." "Who hasn’t wanted to shout out to Romeo, hang on a minute, she is alive - but there is convention and that says we listen and watch in silence." "As for people‘picking on’ black people, well, I think that is a teeny bit paranoid. I don’t have the American experience of course but in London, I don’t think it would immediately come to mind that that women is giving me a ‘look’ when I scrabble in my noisy bag for another sweetie because I am black." I agree, the difference is that panto is for kids and most adults don't feel the need to make that noise anymore when watching a show or play, or at least understand that most other adults would find that annoying. Or have developed a sense of internal processing. I also agree about the "paranoid". Black people would be astonished if they find out how many situations and other people are not about color in the slightest. When I shush someone in theatre, it's because that person is disturbing and it's dark and 3 rows back so I don't even see the person. It is a real problem when you use the victim role/race card in every situation that is not about that. That results in deranged and derailed views and attitudes as the ladies who wrote these articles. Completely world alienated and anti social.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on May 18, 2019 14:53:14 GMT
I’d suggest reading the full article than relying on the summary above which doesn’t, in my opinion, give all of the context.
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Post by 49thand8th on May 18, 2019 17:24:07 GMT
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Post by Rukaya on May 18, 2019 18:55:14 GMT
Unless it's a singalong performance or a moment where the performers have explicitly encouraged that audiences sing along (a megamix at the end of a show, for example) then no, it's not ok. Don't care who you are or what show you're at, I'm not paying to hear anyone but the people in the cast.
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Post by Dr Tom on May 18, 2019 19:09:11 GMT
Well, Tina The Musical in London has signs asking the audience not to sing and dance. I wonder if they will dare include them on Broadway?
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Post by christya on May 19, 2019 22:05:28 GMT
Unless it's a clear expectation, made clear to everyone when buying tickets, then no it's not ok. Put a notice up or a message when buying tickets like 'Please note: Audience participation is encouraged, other theatregoers near you may sing along' or some such and let people decide if they want to go.
The odd bit of singing along that tends to happen during megamixes, etc, being an exception.
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Post by anita on May 20, 2019 9:28:49 GMT
No Never.
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Post by MrsCondomine on May 21, 2019 11:21:31 GMT
the ENTITLEMENT
Unless your name is in the programme and you are on the stage and singing is your job you do not sing along.
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Post by MrsCondomine on May 21, 2019 11:24:13 GMT
if people want to "claim space" they can make their own musical
or sing in the car
or do something that doesn't spoil the enjoyment for others just because they feel they "own" what is onstage
(and I realise the mother was just having a good time, it's the daughter who is an entitled ass)
ADDENDUM am mixed race, will tell you to shut up if you are singing near me and I don't care who you are or what I'm watching. The actual queen could rock up and start singing and I would tell her to stop.
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Post by Backdrifter on May 21, 2019 13:04:40 GMT
The actual queen could rock up and start singing and I would tell her to stop. Or at least Mick Jagger, who I gather is her regular theatregoing companion, could give her a warning nudge.
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Post by Marwood on May 21, 2019 15:08:00 GMT
Does the actual Queen even go to the theatre? When I did the guided tour of the Royal Festival Hall a few years ago and visited the royal box, the guide said she prefers going to horse races to going to see anything theatrical or musical.
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Post by vabbian on May 21, 2019 15:10:55 GMT
Does the actual Queen even go to the theatre? When I did the guided tour of the Royal Festival Hall a few years ago and visited the royal box, the guide said she prefers going to horse races to going to see anything theatrical or musical. I saw her at the Vera Lynn concert at the Palladium She was in a box
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2019 15:19:07 GMT
There's a part of me that likes to imagine that the Queen covers herself with temporary tattoos and fake piercings, puts on her jeans, and sits in the balcony eating a burger.
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Post by TallPaul on May 21, 2019 15:36:30 GMT
It's generally accepted that the Queen doesn't like her 'art' too heavy, very much like me, so we have at least one thing in common. 🙂
I think she's also very aware that if she goes to anything other than a gala performance at the theatre, then she becomes the focus of everyone's attention, rather than the performers.
She did, however, go to see a 'regular' performance of War Horse at what was then still the New London. It was reported that it was all very low key, and she and Prince Philip arrived at the very last minute and took their seats with almost nobody noticing.
When reporting that visit in October 2009, the Evening Standard stated that the Queen had previously attended a performance of Billy Elliot in 2006.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on May 21, 2019 16:52:19 GMT
“Ma’am has been invited to see the new cast of an entertainment on The Strand called Waitress. Should one book Ma’am a box?”
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Post by Backdrifter on May 21, 2019 17:34:33 GMT
Does the actual Queen even go to the theatre? When I did the guided tour of the Royal Festival Hall a few years ago and visited the royal box, the guide said she prefers going to horse races to going to see anything theatrical or musical. Oh well I remember it was revealed on the previous board that she, Jagger and Rickman swaggered around as a fearsome threesome, intimidating cowed proles out of their seats, then spreading themselves out and laughing.
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Post by ncbears on May 23, 2019 5:25:35 GMT
Ms. Morrisseau is the writer of the book for "Aint Too Proud" which is the show being discussed in The Root article.
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Post by asfound on May 23, 2019 6:51:25 GMT
"And so I said, “Let me tell you something—When you entered this theater, you entered into black culture. I really hate this idea that this is a black thing. I mean, deep down I know that it is to some degree and stereotypes have a ring of truth to them - I remember seeing Get Out in the cinema and nearly walking out due to all the screeching at the screen. But at the same time I'm one of the best audience members you could have sit next to you. Also one of the most easily annoyed at bad behaviour - I shush people who whisper during scene changes! And I sure as hell would tell somebody's mama to shut up unless the show was advertised as a singalong no matter what their colour. I honestly think that a lot of bad behaviour gets excused because of sensitivities like this, and it doesn't help in the long run.
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Post by Dave25 on May 23, 2019 12:11:48 GMT
What you describe is essentially the bigger picture. People thinking in race only, people defending stereotypes when it suits them (as we see here), people rejecting stereotypes when it doesn't suit them (double agenda), people demanding certain privileges based on race when it suits them, people using race only as a victim role to get what they want (exclusion), and in opposite situations, people using race only as means for inclusion (casting).
This whole attitude is the epitome of racism. In the basis it's treating people differently, taking on double agenda's and rank people higher or lower based on race.
I always see people first and people only. But sometimes it's incredibly hard when you deal with people who don't see themselves and others as people and think and reason in race only. I really think parents are responsible for this too, when they use the word "color" in every sentence ever spoken to their child, even if it's about the weather. That might make it harder for the child to develop a stable human mind later on. I mean, what can you discuss with someone who only thinks in race and doesn't think in human?
Do people (especially in the USA) realize that this is the cause of the problem?
The man in te audience would have shushed anyone making noise. The daughter and mom should have apologized. That is human behaviour. The man wouldn't even think about race in the whole situation. Now, the daughter actually shouted "black, race, color" immediately and basically attacked the man with words, so what is this man supposed to think now? The daughter obviously thinks it's not about people, but color only, but now the man should go home and feel negatively about black people? Why should he do that? It had nothing to do with color. And why does this daughter want other people to feel negatively about black people? The possibility of any situation being about another subject than color is no option for her? How does she think that attitude will change the world? The road to equality begins where her behaviour ends.
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