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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2021 23:55:40 GMT
Hotpotch is really offensive in the context your using it. Your two comments read that white actors have the edge on talent over BAME actors, maybe you don’t think it comes off like that. Cinderella highlights perfectly how BAME actors can’t even get in the door to audition. Wanting diversity doesn’t make you PC. Casting BAME actors isn’t ticking a box, Asian Christine’s, Black Phantoms and Carlotta’s have been fantastic. Black Dolly’s have been out of this world. This is not box ticking. You may be correct, your race and your sexuality has shaped your world view. I’ve read your post three times and the more I read it the more offensive it reads. How the hell can the word hotchpotch be offensive except to somebody looking to pull the "I'm offended" lever? Go back and read your post. You are insinuating stuff that simply isn't there in my post. I don't mention BAME actors at all and specifically said somebody's colour, race, gender, sexuality is not important to me. The role they are playing and their ability to perform it is all that matters. Once you've read your own post again, go back and read mine again and fuel your misappropriated ire once more. You are reading what you want to read, believing what you want to believe, and twisting words to carve out the narrative that you want to see, as it suits your own personal agenda. It is not for me to decry the worthiness of your views or posts, but I'll be damned if I'll accept the slurs you've made. By all means, have a viewpoint. Respect others enough to have theirs, and come up with a more mature standpoint than pseudo mock-offence at an inoffensive message. Seriously - I'm saying best person for the job regardless of background. Your logic suggests you lack confidence in the best people for the job being from a background that is acceptable or comfortable to you. This is in itself a subliminal race agenda on your part, decrying the fact that a perfectly suitable and capable proven white actress should somehow not be allowed to fulfil the role they've workshopped for several years "just because". By all means have a view - just articulate it better. Calm down. I’m a queer middle age man it takes more than words to offend me. I haven’t called you any slur, I’ve said the way you structured your comment was offensive. Casting a diverse cast is hotpotch you said. Having multiple races is confusing to you? Language is important. I don’t know whether you’re gaslighting yourself or us. I don’t know where you’re going at the end but for one that accuses me of being offended there is a splurge of hysterics there towards the end. If you can’t see the valid points about access and how that isn’t box ticking you’re only fooling yourself. If you think wanting to see as many different takes on roles as a race agenda I find that really odd. I’m not going to be attack you personally like you have me, but really you should read your posts and breathe.
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Post by ceebee on Mar 7, 2021 0:04:25 GMT
How the hell can the word hotchpotch be offensive except to somebody looking to pull the "I'm offended" lever? Go back and read your post. You are insinuating stuff that simply isn't there in my post. I don't mention BAME actors at all and specifically said somebody's colour, race, gender, sexuality is not important to me. The role they are playing and their ability to perform it is all that matters. Once you've read your own post again, go back and read mine again and fuel your misappropriated ire once more. You are reading what you want to read, believing what you want to believe, and twisting words to carve out the narrative that you want to see, as it suits your own personal agenda. It is not for me to decry the worthiness of your views or posts, but I'll be damned if I'll accept the slurs you've made. By all means, have a viewpoint. Respect others enough to have theirs, and come up with a more mature standpoint than pseudo mock-offence at an inoffensive message. Seriously - I'm saying best person for the job regardless of background. Your logic suggests you lack confidence in the best people for the job being from a background that is acceptable or comfortable to you. This is in itself a subliminal race agenda on your part, decrying the fact that a perfectly suitable and capable proven white actress should somehow not be allowed to fulfil the role they've workshopped for several years "just because". By all means have a view - just articulate it better. Calm down. I’m a queer middle age man it takes more than words to offend me. I haven’t called you any slur, I’ve said the way you structured your comment was offensive. Casting a diverse cast is hotpotch you said. Having multiple races is confusing to you? Language is important. I don’t know whether you’re gaslighting yourself or us. I don’t know where you’re going at the end but for one that accuses me of being offended there is a splurge of hysterics there towards the end. If you can’t see the valid points about access and how that isn’t box ticking you’re only fooling yourself. If you think wanting to see as many different takes on roles as a race agenda I find that really odd. I’m not going to be attack you personally like you have me, but really you should read your posts and breathe. Gaslighting... Straight from the Meghan Markle school of diplomacy. I'm all good, thanks. Just called you out for your comments, which I'm free to do (as you are to me). Hotchpotch comment is about casting for diversity quotients rather than talent. I want to see the best people cast, and really don't care about anything else.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2021 0:15:28 GMT
Calm down. I’m a queer middle age man it takes more than words to offend me. I haven’t called you any slur, I’ve said the way you structured your comment was offensive. Casting a diverse cast is hotpotch you said. Having multiple races is confusing to you? Language is important. I don’t know whether you’re gaslighting yourself or us. I don’t know where you’re going at the end but for one that accuses me of being offended there is a splurge of hysterics there towards the end. If you can’t see the valid points about access and how that isn’t box ticking you’re only fooling yourself. If you think wanting to see as many different takes on roles as a race agenda I find that really odd. I’m not going to be attack you personally like you have me, but really you should read your posts and breathe. Gaslighting... Straight from the Meghan Markle school of diplomacy. I'm all good, thanks. Just called you out for your comments, which I'm free to do (as you are to me). Hotchpotch comment is about casting for diversity quotients rather than talent. I want to see the best people cast, and really don't care about anything else. I don’t know why you’re firing all these slogans at me including the bizarre Markle reference. You called me out on nothing you revealed a lot about yourself though. I suggest you get your dictionary out because you don’t know the definition of Hotchpotch. I’m delighted for you that you want to see the best people cast which you slip in at the end of every post while spending the preceeding lines to hysterically attack people for wanting diverse casting and suggesting that to do so would be confusing and insinuating that diverse casting would somehow be less. Your structure is the definition of gaslighting and Im sorry if you don’t like the analysis of your posts. And I like the subtle comment about speaking, ‘which I’m free to do’ as if someone is trying to restrict you. No one is. And to put it plainly for you, the best people for the part are the ones that can get in the room and show their talents and who are judged solely on their talent.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2021 7:50:13 GMT
I wonder if RUG will stick to the original release dates for the album now that the show has been postponed. From my records I have 16th April for the highlights CD, 30th April for the gimmick pink LP and 21st May for the complete cast album. Well I say cast, apparently it's a mix of cast and special guests.
Anyway, I hope they keep the original dates!
What I CAN'T remember is whether I paid at time of purchase!
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Post by ceebee on Mar 7, 2021 8:04:33 GMT
@shirleydevore Sorry to put it bluntly but I'm finding this conversation boring. You don't like CHF clearly. You believe in a transparent and open casting process to ensure access to auditions for all. The industry doesn't work this way (for as long as there are bankable stars). Life is rarely fair, but as a producer if ALW wants to use (or create) a platform for stars, this is his choice. Ivano Turco (and Tyrone Huntley in workshops) are both proof that talent is what really matters when auditioning or casting. Move on - throwing jibes at me just because I don't share your view doesn't achieve much.
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Post by ceebee on Mar 7, 2021 8:06:15 GMT
I wonder if RUG will stick to the original release dates for the album now that the show has been postponed. From my records I have 16th April for the highlights CD, 30th April for the gimmick pink LP and 21st May for the complete cast album. Well I say cast, apparently it's a mix of cast and special guests. Anyway, I hope they keep the original dates! What I CAN'T remember is whether I paid at time of purchase! Did you order the limited signed edition? I'd totally forgotten that I had, it was so long ago!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2021 8:25:24 GMT
I wonder if RUG will stick to the original release dates for the album now that the show has been postponed. From my records I have 16th April for the highlights CD, 30th April for the gimmick pink LP and 21st May for the complete cast album. Well I say cast, apparently it's a mix of cast and special guests. Anyway, I hope they keep the original dates! What I CAN'T remember is whether I paid at time of purchase! Did you order the limited signed edition? I'd totally forgotten that I had, it was so long ago! I did! Was indeed ages ago. Hence have no idea if I paid then or can expect to soon!
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Post by ceebee on Mar 7, 2021 8:29:40 GMT
Did you order the limited signed edition? I'd totally forgotten that I had, it was so long ago! I did! Was indeed ages ago. Hence have no idea if I paid then or can expect to soon! I'm pretty sure they took payment at the time (to secure the order). Perhaps the production delay is down to ALW and CHF having to sign more sleeves than expected...
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Post by FairyGodmother on Mar 7, 2021 10:25:50 GMT
I'm still a bit confused by how Ivano was cast tbh — I know he was auditioning as ensemble, so presumably ALW auditioned ensemble before leads?
That seems really weird to me, because I'd have thought you'd have picked your preferred male lead, then your second choice (and maybe 3rd) would have been offered first refusal on ensemble and 1st/2nd cover.
I'm really looking forward to the highlights album — they put a picture up of crossed-out song names when they released IKIHAH, and one was really really long. I'm desperate to know what it is! And hear more music of course.
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Post by mrbarnaby on Mar 7, 2021 11:02:31 GMT
The ‘highlights’ album is gonna be pretty short based on the released songs so far!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2021 12:00:29 GMT
@shirleydevore Sorry to put it bluntly but I'm finding this conversation boring.. Move on - throwing jibes at me just because I don't share your view doesn't achieve much. The ironic thing with people who accuse others as being offended are actually the people who cannot take any challenge to their point of view. The only person ‘throwing jibes’ being antagonist and defensive is you Sir, as your posts prove. Quote: “ There will always be people who demand proportional representation in casting... I'd begrudge paying £90 to see a hotpotch cast just because the PC brigade want to tick boxes. How the hell can the word hotchpotch be offensive except to somebody looking to pull the "I'm offended" lever? Go back and read your post. fuel your misappropriated ire once more. You are reading what you want to read, believing what you want to believe, and twisting words to carve out the narrative that you want to see, as it suits your own personal agenda. but I'll be damned if I'll accept the slurs you've made. By all means, have a viewpoint. Respect others enough to have theirs, and come up with a more mature standpoint than pseudo mock-offence at an inoffensive message. Your logic suggests you lack confidence in the best people for the job being from a background that is acceptable or comfortable to you. This is in itself a subliminal race agenda on your part, decrying the fact that a perfectly suitable and capable proven white actress should somehow not be allowed to fulfil the role they've workshopped for several years "just because". By all means have a view - just articulate it better. Straight from the Meghan Markle school of diplomacy. I'm all good, thanks. Just called you out for your comments, which I'm free to do (as you are to me). Move on - throwing jibes at me just because I don't share your view doesn't achieve much. And yes, I'm a white, straight male so I guess I'm just ignorant as a result of my heterosexual middle of the road not quite boomer privileged blandness”. End Quote. And I don’t dislike Carrie, she’s good at what SHE does. It’s not personal, it’s theatre criticism. Have a great weekend. P.S. You say numerous times, if BAME actors have the talent, THEY DO!
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Post by viserys on Mar 7, 2021 12:34:56 GMT
I did! Was indeed ages ago. Hence have no idea if I paid then or can expect to soon! I'm pretty sure they took payment at the time (to secure the order). Perhaps the production delay is down to ALW and CHF having to sign more sleeves than expected... Yes, payment was taken - I had to make an English friend order the special signed vinyl + CD for me since it wasn't available to us plebs abroad. She paid and I immediately paypaled her the money (unless she was lying and just took my money )
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Mar 7, 2021 13:01:16 GMT
The rights and wrongs and ins and outs of how this has been cast are valid topics for discussion but could I ask that we read less of the word “you” and more of the names of the cast and creatives involved please. If members want to have a personal disagreement please take it off the board.
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Post by Seriously on Mar 7, 2021 13:22:00 GMT
...presumably ALW auditioned ensemble before leads? He didn't.
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Post by FairyGodmother on Mar 7, 2021 13:39:30 GMT
How did he come to cast Ivano Turco then Seriously? I thought he picked him from dance/ensemble auditions? Or are you saying he cast (then dropped) somebody else in favour of him?
I'm not particularly well up on audition processes (and I presume they differ from show to show anyway), so feel free to explain it as if you're talking to an eight year old!
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Post by stagebyte on Mar 7, 2021 13:51:48 GMT
Seems a stretch to think they didn’t see anyone else who may have been ‘legitimately’ in the list of people for lead and that they just plucked him from the chorus.
Maybe he did audition for the lead? Maybe this rags to riches /ensemble to lead story feeds into the fairytale narrative for publicity? Just a thought.
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Post by Seriously on Mar 7, 2021 13:55:36 GMT
They went through the usual process of auditioning principals, but they stressed they weren't sure what they were looking for in the casting. Whilst that was going on, he was spotted in the separate ensemble auditions.
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Post by FairyGodmother on Mar 7, 2021 13:57:12 GMT
Oh I completely agree that having a real-life "Cinderella story" for one of the leads is an excellent marketing strategy.
But I was confused why there wasn't already a male lead in place — that was why I was asking about the order of auditions. Perhaps all the auditions were done at a similar time then, and they moved him from the "ensemble stream" to the "Sebastien stream"?
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Post by FairyGodmother on Mar 7, 2021 13:57:41 GMT
They went through the usual process of auditioning principals, but they stressed they weren't sure what they were looking for in the casting. Whilst that was going on, he was spotted in the separate ensemble auditions. Ah thank you, that makes sense!
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Post by danb on Mar 7, 2021 14:11:43 GMT
Maybe he is Cinderella?
Sorry, thought that I should quantify this. Obviously she is playing a character called Cinderella, but maybe his character is the downtrodden step-sibling/child? He might be a prince but not a happy one.
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Post by stagebyte on Mar 7, 2021 14:21:40 GMT
Does no one on this board have an inkling of the story from the workshop? Someone must’ve spilled somewhere. Come on people we can solve this mystery! I have a little theory about the revolve... Every good story starts at the heart of the action Maybe at the start of the show the audience in the revolve section are part of a clock dial which rotates to strike midnight. Or reverses back from midnight to an alternate story line. And if this isn’t what you were doing Andrew I’m available as show consultant 😉
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Post by ThereWillBeSun on Mar 7, 2021 23:02:03 GMT
Does no one on this board have an inkling of the story from the workshop? Someone must’ve spilled somewhere. Come on people we can solve this mystery! I have a little theory about the revolve... Every good story starts at the heart of the action Maybe at the start of the show the audience in the revolve section are part of a clock dial which rotates to strike midnight. Or reverses back from midnight to an alternate story line. And if this isn’t what you were doing Andrew I’m available as show consultant 😉 To clarify I have NO insight whatsoever but I dig this idea ^
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Post by Being Alive on Mar 7, 2021 23:39:20 GMT
Isn't the twist of this that the Prince is actually gay? Isn't that what the very first post of this WHOLE thread says? Isn't that what we've all been saying for nearly two years?
Honestly, the secrecy and "whatever you think this is going to be, it isn't" is getting really boring. I think it's gonna be naff, and they're not doing much to convince me otherwise...
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Post by carmella1 on Mar 8, 2021 6:07:54 GMT
That is what I read ages ago. The Prince is gay. And in the cast list he was listed in the ensemble.
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Post by FairyGodmother on Mar 8, 2021 9:33:54 GMT
This is what it says in the first article:
but the title character doesn’t need a Prince Charming to fulfill her needs. In this retelling, Prince Charming is gay, and runs off with a duke. Cinderella falls in love with Sebastian, an adorable oddball.
But Seb seems to be a prince too. So we have two princes: Charming (AWOL to the point he isn't a principal and gay) and Seb (who presumably isn't gay, but who knows?).
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