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Post by fiyerorocher on Nov 23, 2021 14:40:34 GMT
I don’t get the ongoing confusion about the Godmother and midnight, it’s a comment on women’s beauty/fashion industry, as stated again and again in Beauty Has a Price: I think that's understood, it's just the specificity of it being midnight that doesn't make any sense. Nothing is actually going to happen at midnight itself, so it might as well be 'best be home by 3am'. If Cinderella wanted to stay out later, she could. Which removes the hard deadline element of the original that provides so much of the tension. |
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Post by karloscar on Nov 23, 2021 15:01:36 GMT
Presumably the shoes are agony from the minute she puts them on. If Cinders is such a rebel why on earth does she need to conform to the standards she despises in everyone else? She gains nothing by doing so. That and Sebastian being too thick to recognize her in her ball get-up make the poorly thought out plot even more ridiculous.
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Post by theatremole on Nov 23, 2021 15:11:33 GMT
Presumably the shoes are agony from the minute she puts them on. If Cinders is such a rebel why on earth does she need to conform to the standards she despises in everyone else? She gains nothing by doing so. That and Sebastian being too thick to recognize her in her ball get-up make the poorly thought out plot even more ridiculous. That's the point of the plot...she doesn't need to do those things. She's loved by someone for who she is not for who she is not. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2021 15:26:05 GMT
Presumably the shoes are agony from the minute she puts them on. If Cinders is such a rebel why on earth does she need to conform to the standards she despises in everyone else? She gains nothing by doing so. That and Sebastian being too thick to recognize her in her ball get-up make the poorly thought out plot even more ridiculous. That's the point of the plot...she doesn't need to do those things. She's loved by someone for who she is not for who she is not. But that was always the point of the original fairytale. Cinderella doesn't change for a man, she just wanted to escape her abusive life and dress up for one night to go to a party. She happens to meet the Prince and he falls for her and marries her in spite of her more humble background. Its about hope and kindness in face of a tough life and finding true love (All be it rushed haha). Cinderella always stays true to herself whether she is being abused by her step family or meeting royalty. And this is part of the problem, it feels like somehow the whole creative team completely misses the point of the original fairytale. |
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Post by properjob on Nov 23, 2021 17:39:20 GMT
I don’t get the ongoing confusion about the Godmother and midnight, it’s a comment on women’s beauty/fashion industry, as stated again and again in Beauty Has a Price: I think that's understood, it's just the specificity of it being midnight that doesn't make any sense. Nothing is actually going to happen at midnight itself, so it might as well be 'best be home by 3am'. If Cinderella wanted to stay out later, she could. Which removes the hard deadline element of the original that provides so much of the tension. The Queen insists that Sebastion must choose a bride by midnight. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2021 18:46:39 GMT
Reading the lyrics shows just shows how bad they are. The ideas jump around all over the place, there's no natural flow to whats shes saying nor is it clear what will really happen at midnight. Its even less clear in performance, or it certainly wasnt at the preview i attended. Also, the Godmother screams 'just be home by midnight' numerous times right at the end of act 1, and that implied that something perilous was going to happen. Nothing happens. It's a mess.
So they're using glue and staples and yet there's no recovery period, she goes straight to the ball and then is fine after it. So the 'surgery' wasnt as severe as she says?
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Post by Oliver on Nov 23, 2021 20:28:12 GMT
Reading the lyrics shows just shows how bad they are. The ideas jump around all over the place, there's no natural flow to whats shes saying nor is it clear what will really happen at midnight. Its even less clear in performance, or it certainly wasnt at the preview i attended. Also, the Godmother screams 'just be home by midnight' numerous times right at the end of act 1, and that implied that something perilous was going to happen. Nothing happens. It's a mess. So they're using glue and staples and yet there's no recovery period, she goes straight to the ball and then is fine after it. So the 'surgery' wasnt as severe as she says? Yes, you've highlighted one of the musical's major flaws. However, that isn't the fault of the lyrics, it's the fault of the book. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2021 20:42:54 GMT
Reading the lyrics shows just shows how bad they are. The ideas jump around all over the place, there's no natural flow to whats shes saying nor is it clear what will really happen at midnight. Its even less clear in performance, or it certainly wasnt at the preview i attended. Also, the Godmother screams 'just be home by midnight' numerous times right at the end of act 1, and that implied that something perilous was going to happen. Nothing happens. It's a mess. So they're using glue and staples and yet there's no recovery period, she goes straight to the ball and then is fine after it. So the 'surgery' wasnt as severe as she says? Yes, you've highlighted one of the musical's major flaws. However, that isn't the fault of the lyrics, it's the fault of the book. No Oliver. As clearly demonstrated above, the fault is definitely with the lazy, terrible lyrics. But at least you can admit that the musical has many major flaws. That's progress! Well done! |
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Post by Oliver on Nov 23, 2021 21:00:46 GMT
Yes, you've highlighted one of the musical's major flaws. However, that isn't the fault of the lyrics, it's the fault of the book. No Oliver. As clearly demonstrated above, the fault is definitely with the lazy, terrible lyrics. But at least you can admit that the musical has many major flaws. That's progress! Well done! I don't understand what you mean. I never stated that the musical was perfect nor have I just said that the musical has many major flaws. Where are you getting this from? I said that you have highlighted a major flaw in the musical, that's all I said. Please can you explain why the fault of the story is the fault of the lyrics and not the book? |
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Post by karloscar on Nov 23, 2021 22:40:56 GMT
Book always dictates what the lyrics are supposed to convey. Songs aren't usually written randomly nowadays, so the lyric is supposed to move the story along. (Debatable how often Zippel achieves it I grant you).
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Post by fiyerorocher on Nov 23, 2021 23:16:54 GMT
I think that's understood, it's just the specificity of it being midnight that doesn't make any sense. Nothing is actually going to happen at midnight itself, so it might as well be 'best be home by 3am'. If Cinderella wanted to stay out later, she could. Which removes the hard deadline element of the original that provides so much of the tension. The Queen insists that Sebastion must choose a bride by midnight. Yes, I'm aware. But that really has no bearing on the Godmother's warning. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2021 14:23:18 GMT
No Oliver. As clearly demonstrated above, the fault is definitely with the lazy, terrible lyrics. But at least you can admit that the musical has many major flaws. That's progress! Well done! I don't understand what you mean. I never stated that the musical was perfect nor have I just said that the musical has many major flaws. Where are you getting this from? I said that you have highlighted a major flaw in the musical, that's all I said. Please can you explain why the fault of the story is the fault of the lyrics and not the book? Consistently throughout this thread you have responded to anyone who might have a negative opinion on this show and tried to prove their opinion wrong, whether it be about the music, the lyrics, the band, the orchestrations, the cast, whatever it is, you have tried to say the opposite and praise the show regardless of anyone else's opinion, as if what you say is correct.
Yes, you've highlighted one of the musical's major flaws. However, that isn't the fault of the lyrics, it's the fault of the book.
If I have highlighted ONE of the musicals major flaws, there must be others?
The book writer writes the story, the plot from beginning to end. At various points in the story, a song will happen, which will musicalise a certain scene or event which will hopefully move the story along. The book writer will tell the lyricist what the song should be about. The lyricist will then write the song lyrics. The lyrics to 'Beauty Has A Price' are terrible. Emerald Fennel didn't write the lyrics to 'Beauty Has A Price' She would have told him that the scene does this and this and should include these plot points. He chose to write an incoherent mess.
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Post by steve10086 on Nov 24, 2021 15:48:25 GMT
The book writer writes the story, the plot from beginning to end. At various points in the story, a song will happen, which will musicalise a certain scene or event which will hopefully move the story along. The book writer will tell the lyricist what the song should be about. The lyricist will then write the song lyrics. The lyrics to 'Beauty Has A Price' are terrible. Emerald Fennel didn't write the lyrics to 'Beauty Has A Price' She would have told him that the scene does this and this and should include these plot points. He chose to write an incoherent mess. I think you missed the stage where ALW meddles in everything. |
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Post by Oliver on Nov 24, 2021 16:05:52 GMT
The book writer will tell the lyricist what the song should be about. The lyricist will then write the song lyrics. The lyrics to 'Beauty Has A Price' are terrible. Emerald Fennel didn't write the lyrics to 'Beauty Has A Price' She would have told him that the scene does this and this and should include these plot points. He chose to write an incoherent mess. [/div]
[/quote] Right, so it's the book writer's fault. Emerald explained the plot points and what the song should be about. It was her story. |
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Post by LaLuPone on Nov 24, 2021 17:14:40 GMT
Oh Andy…
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Post by Oliver on Nov 24, 2021 17:18:55 GMT
He himself explained the he told them that in an interview on Front Row last night, I don't think that's such a big deal. What's wrong with him saying that? |
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Post by lolalou on Nov 24, 2021 17:21:28 GMT
Can someone summarise what The Stage paywall post says please?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2021 17:40:01 GMT
Not sure what the full context of article is but alw isn't wrong in the overall point, some actors do forget that at times. I suspect its linked to social media comments made by some cast.
There's also an offer emailed around for cinderella in December for £39. Not a great sign as December is normally one of busiest months.
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Post by cezbear on Nov 24, 2021 18:03:13 GMT
Aimed at CHF perhaps? Probably would have been better to address it at the time or say nothing rather than drag it up again now when the gala presumably gave good publicity.
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Post by forevercolours on Nov 24, 2021 18:09:02 GMT
CHF is off posting crypic tweets again… As I have said many times before, the drama surrounding this show is exhausting. Even more sick of it now than I was before.
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Post by h86 on Nov 24, 2021 18:26:18 GMT
Not sure what the full context of article is but alw isn't wrong in the overall point, some actors do forget that at times. I suspect its linked to social media comments made by some cast. There's also an offer emailed around for cinderella in December for £39. Not a great sign as December is normally one of busiest months. It’s not the best way to publicly to it though is it?! Young performers are the future of the industry, treating them like he has is not really appropriate in my view. He also a says “ I don’t have a right to have my musicals in the theatre” which is rich coming from the guy who owns a good chunk of theatres in the West End |
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Post by stuartmcd on Nov 24, 2021 18:37:50 GMT
God knows what’s going on behind the scenes with this show. There’s ways of handling problems but publicly shaming the cast isn’t right particularly when they are still in the show and representing your work every night.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Nov 24, 2021 18:52:48 GMT
CHF is off posting crypic tweets again… As I have said many times before, the drama surrounding this show is exhausting. Even more sick of it now than I was before. I don’t think there’s anything cryptic about that. She is basically dissing her boss, the person we are led to believe hired her for Cinderella, a powerful producer and a legend of musical theatre. Good luck with the future career Carrie. |
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Post by forevercolours on Nov 24, 2021 18:55:22 GMT
CHF is off posting crypic tweets again… As I have said many times before, the drama surrounding this show is exhausting. Even more sick of it now than I was before. I don’t think there’s anything cryptic about that. She is basically dissing her boss, the person we are led to believe hired her for Cinderella, a powerful producer and a legend of musical theatre. Good luck with the future career Carrie. To be fair, it is this one that she tweeted before that one that is a lot more cryptic. |
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Post by TallPaul on Nov 24, 2021 18:57:40 GMT
Just imagine if both Fletcher siblings find themselves eliminated within days of each other.
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