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Post by Backdrifter on Apr 18, 2019 19:03:28 GMT
It might if he’s smart enough for an elite university - they’ll probably look for a minimum of variations across grades historically. Maybe. Maybe not. Or it might propel him in another direction that suits him. Who knows? Who cares? This bloke's exams are completely irrelevant. |
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Post by londonpostie on Apr 18, 2019 19:06:05 GMT
After seeing Downstate last night I walked over and back on Waterloo Bridge and was surprised how small scale the protest is - perhaps a couple of hundred at best. There weren't many more on the bridge than were in the Dorfman. Beforehand, there were definitely more at the river side pub by the NT.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2019 19:10:40 GMT
It might if he’s smart enough for an elite university - they’ll probably look for a minimum of variations across grades historically. Maybe. Maybe not. Or it might propel him in another direction that suits him. Who knows? Who cares? This bloke's exams are completely irrelevant. Agreed, I couldn’t care less about his exams. Entirely his decision. But then I think the whole debacle is completely irrelevant. |
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Post by Latecomer on Apr 18, 2019 20:06:47 GMT
I think maybe the point of these protests and the school protests is that we haven’t got time to mess about anymore and our Government does not seem serious about tackling climate change.....where are the renewable energy investments? And we live in a country with wind and surrounded by waves, with mountains and rivers and the technology to make new generation batteries.....it’s not rocket science is it? We should be 100% renewable energy.Get on with it....create a department, get the best scientists on it, give out money for the best projects in each region, have a prize competition for the best ideas from universities, buy back all those diesel cars you made people buy as they were better for the environment, get green issues put at the heart of ALL planning applications, pay farmers for hosting solar panels, come on come on, be drastic!!!!
This is an EMERGENCY and pretty soon your exam results wont matter as you wont be able to thrive in this country....because of global issues linked to global warming. We should be at the forefront of creating something amazing.....this could be our new NHS! When that was invented it was radical, seemed impossible.....we need radical change and we need politicians with genuinely radical solutions.
People are getting increasingly frustrated that Government shows no sign of realising what is important.
Plus we are all talking about it, so they must be doing something right (and don't tell me ANYONE would have been on here talking about it if they had organised a nice well behaved march)
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Post by londonpostie on Apr 18, 2019 20:16:46 GMT
tbh, my takeaway from this is how it has not registered with the middle class, many of whom spent today jetting off to sunnier climes for the family Easter break - probably after a skiing trip earlier and the summer hols later. At the very least many people I know in London are entitled to three plane-trip holidays a year, the property owners anyway. Others, of course, still plan bus trips to the food bank.
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Post by apubleed on Apr 18, 2019 20:22:41 GMT
I have a suggestion for some: instead of threatening to close Heathrow Airport why don’t you go and be entrepreneurial, do a PhD and find the solution for renewable energy in a commercial aviation context. With fuel often being one of the largest overheads for airlines they are dying for a cheaper alternative. But so far the technology just doesn’t exist. Instead of complaining about the problem, please come up with the solution.
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Post by Backdrifter on Apr 18, 2019 20:26:39 GMT
I have a suggestion for some: instead of threatening to close Heathrow Airport why don’t you go and be entrepreneurial, do a PhD and find the solution for renewable energy in a commercial aviation context. Blimey. I had no idea they had to literally do EITHER one OR the other. Funny isn't it, the starkly black or white binary choices life throws up. |
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Post by oxfordsimon on Apr 18, 2019 20:53:16 GMT
Renewable energy production rose by 230% between 2009 and 2017 (most recent figures I have been able to find)
There are many new regulations to ensure that new builds, new cars, new white goods meet stricter energy targets
It is wrong to say that nothing is being done. You might not believe it to be enough - but action is being taken. There is a debate about what action and at what speed. But it helps no-one to pretend that nothing is being done. Acknowledge what is good and be constructive about what should happen going forward.
Setting demands for a carbon free society within 6 years is not realistic. Not even close.
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Post by londonpostie on Apr 18, 2019 20:55:32 GMT
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Post by kimbahorel on Apr 18, 2019 21:11:17 GMT
I'm not going to lie. I really don't care anymore. My bus route is effected and I have spend a ton of money I don't have the last few days trying to get to work via tubes. No idea how I will make my early morning shifts because no trains are running at the times I leave usually. Its not practical for me to walk miles into work because I am on my feet for 8 hours I can't manage it. Plus I would be sweaty and horrible which isn't appropriate. I have bad people/crowd anxiety if I know large crowds are about I get panicky and avoid like the plague. This is not helping my mental state right now.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2019 21:27:25 GMT
I'm sure I read recently that renewable energy isn't the distant pipe dream that some seem to think it is, but every gain that has been made in that department has been pretty much wiped out by the sheer amount of power it takes to mine bitcoins, of ALL things.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Apr 18, 2019 21:50:24 GMT
Posts removed. No need to get personal. Thanks.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2019 23:02:31 GMT
It’s clear from how they fielded a man who couldn’t take a modicum of criticism from a recognised ‘difficult’ journalist (who was only putting to him what a lot of us think, which is his job) and chose to flee the studio. Adam Boulton may have been putting to that particular young man what a lot of people think but instead of putting it to him in a constructive way, he chose instead to just insult him. Being constructive is his job, insulting guests isn't. I think it says more about Adam Boulton and the people who support him though than it does about the protester. What a world this is becoming. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2019 23:24:42 GMT
People are getting increasingly frustrated that Government shows no sign of realising what is important. And other people are getting increasingly frustrated that people don't realise that there are other things which have to be solved first before meaningful climate change legislation can be put in place and, more importantly, implemented and enforced. If we don't have a working political system or any idea whether EU standards are going to apply to us next month, never mind next year, then like it or not we aren't in a position to put in place what the disrupters are demanding. And that's without even considering the fact that the government is on holiday. That is why this protest is so ill-thought out and ineffectual, and why the organisers clearly have no clue about how to actually get the people they need to impact to engage. Without buy in from government and corporations they will never succeed, and all they have managed to do so far is alienate and irritate those groups, which is really not going to help. |
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Post by d'James on Apr 19, 2019 3:07:39 GMT
Wow. So much nimbyism here I can’t bear. There is disruption but it’s not that bad. People have been groomed to hate peaceful protest. (See above about peaceful arrest.)
People are wound up by the tabloids to things that don’t affect them and if they actually experienced the reality of it they’d find it wasn’t that bad.
They’ve warned people about any disruption and appropriate alternatives have been able to be made. There have been so many ifs thrown about by people (mostly unaffected) but nothing has come to pass. It has got a lot of attention, so well done them.
Can you imagine if the French Revolution had happened over here? ‘Yes, she said “Let them eat cake,” but at least I could have made my guillotine appointment on time.’
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2019 6:30:59 GMT
People are getting increasingly frustrated that Government shows no sign of realising what is important. And other people are getting increasingly frustrated that people don't realise that there are other things which have to be solved first before meaningful climate change legislation can be put in place and, more importantly, implemented and enforced. If we don't have a working political system or any idea whether EU standards are going to apply to us next month, never mind next year, then like it or not we aren't in a position to put in place what the disrupters are demanding. And that's without even considering the fact that the government is on holiday. That's all true of course. I mean, it's not like Government have had much time to sort out a lot of this stuff.
Oh.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2019 8:53:03 GMT
And other people are getting increasingly frustrated that people don't realise that there are other things which have to be solved first before meaningful climate change legislation can be put in place and, more importantly, implemented and enforced. If we don't have a working political system or any idea whether EU standards are going to apply to us next month, never mind next year, then like it or not we aren't in a position to put in place what the disrupters are demanding. And that's without even considering the fact that the government is on holiday. That's all true of course. I mean, it's not like Government have had much time to sort out a lot of this stuff.
Oh.
Well obviously, but it doesn't change the fact that they haven't so they still need to sort it out before they can spend time on meaningful legislation to deal with other issues like climate change. Without the framework then nothing will get done, so timing is everything in a way the protesters seem not to understand. I've now made this point more than once and not received an answer or explanation as to how the protest is actually having any positive impact at all, so I think that rather says it all about the extent to which the timing and methods are ineffectual. I don't dispute the issues are important - they very much are - but the whole way this has been carried out is not and was never going to achieve what they are trying to do. |
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Post by NeilVHughes on Apr 19, 2019 10:00:23 GMT
The biggest impact on Climate Change will come when we individualise the changes required such as
- reducing the use of plastic
- buying clothes that last longer, the Primark wear and discard model is extremely wasteful
- walk more, most city centres are relatively small areas, the furore over making Oxford Street pedestrian only is an example
- the food we buy and how it is prepared
- reducing the dependence on the car, cycling/walking more would not only reduce emissions but increase health.
- .........
The Government is going as fast as we let them, plastic bag charge, electric cars only in 20 years, increased renewable energy, smart meters, increased investment in public transport, cycle lanes in cities, pedestrian only areas etc.
We are getting close to the tipping point where solar/wind will be efficient enough and the limited storage facilities (batteries)will be overcome and each house will become primarily self sufficient, will we pay the initial £thousands to transition as the payback will take decades.
These protesters are rightly highlighting the issue but the changes have to come from ourselves, using nudge theory as in seat belts and smoking it takes about 25 years for a Government to change values, seat belts a hindrance 60’s unthinkable in the 90’s, same with smoking, achieved with public information and drip feeding the message until we take it on board.
Using a similar scenario it will take 20/30 years for it to be unthinkable that we would not have a renewable source in each property and the driving of an gas guzzler will be considered the same as smoking in public and walking cycling becomes a primary transport method. (as we transition to centralised distribution, cities/towns can be redesigned as districts with social hubs within walking/cycling distance rather than shopping centres)
All these changes depend on us as individuals which the Government can only coerce not demand.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Apr 19, 2019 10:13:09 GMT
I agree with much said there - but it will take much longer than 20/30 years to redesigned/redevelop towns and cities in the way you describe. Just the nature of town centre leases and the time lag in terms of development planning means that is a far longer term project.
I know it might seem trivial - but I would ban all outdoor heaters. It seems to me utterly ludicrous to heat up areas around pubs and cafes. It is massively inefficient use of resources and whilst the ban would only reduce energy consumption a minimal amount, it would be a step that could be taken that would send a signal about how we should use energy. Heating up a space outside a bar/pub so that smokers can stand there in comfort is utterly wrong.
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Post by londonpostie on Apr 19, 2019 10:18:57 GMT
Go for it, just as long as you don't mess with three holiday flights a year entitlement.
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Post by jadnoop on Apr 19, 2019 11:04:12 GMT
I definitely agree that lots of change needs to come from ourselves, but for what it's worth it's very unlikely that we're going to reach a point at which every home has own local generation. Certainly we're not going to reach a point at which every premises is self sufficient in the foreseeable future. Just in practical terms, the density of housing in cities means that it makes more sense in terms of space, efficiency and costs to have larger scale renewables rather than small-scale generation on every building (think, for instance, about the available physical space for PV or Solar Hot Water panels to be installed per household in blocks of flats compared with houses). The other issue is the stability of the grid: Already the mains is worried about premises selling excess electricity back to the grid. Further, as the grid becomes less carbon intensive (coal power stations > gas > renewables) then technologies that have been traditionally used other fuels are incentivised to switch to electricity (household heating and cars for instance).
Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that small scale renewables isn't going to be an important part of the future, just that this can only be a part of the solution.
In terms of stuff like heating outdoors, it's absolutely true that this sort of thing is very wasteful. However, this is just a drop in the ocean and, if the aim is to have a substantial reduction in the energy we consume (and the emissions caused by that energy), then those little things can only ever be a small part of a much bigger picture. As David Mackay said about "every little helps", if everyone does a little, we achieve a little.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Apr 19, 2019 11:25:11 GMT
The primary school right by where I live has installed a huge array of solar panels on their roof. This is a very sensible use of a public building. Because the school has limited operating hours each day and, of course, is closed for 12/13 weeks per year, it is reducing their carbon footprint significantly and also generating electricity that is being sold back to the grid - helping more widely.
That is a model that can be adopted by a whole range of public facilities.
In France, I have seen a number of supermarket car parks that have installed solar panels over their car parks. This produces energy for the store/grid and also provides shade for customers. I know we don't have quite the same sunshine levels as much of France - but again, it is using a space in a different way with multiple benefits.
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Post by lynette on Apr 19, 2019 11:48:59 GMT
The biggest impact on Climate Change will come when we individualise the changes required such as - reducing the use of plastic - buying clothes that last longer, the Primark wear and discard model is extremely wasteful - walk more, most city centres are relatively small areas, the furore over making Oxford Street pedestrian only is an example - the food we buy and how it is prepared - reducing the dependence on the car, cycling/walking more would not only reduce emissions but increase health. - ......... The Government is going as fast as we let them, plastic bag charge, electric cars only in 20 years, increased renewable energy, smart meters, increased investment in public transport, cycle lanes in cities, pedestrian only areas etc. We are getting close to the tipping point where solar/wind will be efficient enough and the limited storage facilities (batteries)will be overcome and each house will become primarily self sufficient, will we pay the initial £thousands to transition as the payback will take decades. These protesters are rightly highlighting the issue but the changes have to come from ourselves, using nudge theory as in seat belts and smoking it takes about 25 years for a Government to change values, seat belts a hindrance 60’s unthinkable in the 90’s, same with smoking, achieved with public information and drip feeding the message until we take it on board. Using a similar scenario it will take 20/30 years for it to be unthinkable that we would not have a renewable source in each property and the driving of an gas guzzler will be considered the same as smoking in public and walking cycling becomes a primary transport method. (as we transition to centralised distribution, cities/towns can be redesigned as districts with social hubs within walking/cycling distance rather than shopping centres) All these changes depend on us as individuals which the Government can only coerce not demand. What he says. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2019 14:48:23 GMT
Individuals only change behaviour in large numbers when it is led from above, to create that shift then government, councils, big business etc., need to be seen to lead At the moment they are seen to be, if not actively against the idea, then at least resistant or agnostic. Incentivisation and stricter penalties on each of these entities would be a good start. The general population would follow.
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Post by Backdrifter on Apr 19, 2019 17:18:59 GMT
I've now made this point more than once and not received an answer or explanation as to how the protest is actually having any positive impact at all, so I think that rather says it all about the extent to which the timing and methods are ineffectual. I don't dispute the issues are important - they very much are - but the whole way this has been carried out is not and was never going to achieve what they are trying to do. I hardly think an absence of tangible responses to you by some people on a theatre message board "says it all". Regardless of what the protestors thought they might achieve immediately or short term, they are helping to keep visible issues which, as you rightly said, are very important. Are there any specific public protests that have led directly to significant change in the short term? That's not meant as a combative question, it's just that the discussion has raised the question in my mind. |
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