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Post by indis on Dec 25, 2018 9:04:38 GMT
sorry never heard of that actor before, so my points as stated above still stand-above them all that as... of an director
as for Enjolras: He is described as pretty as a maiden or something like that, never seen a girl with a beard
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Post by indis on Dec 25, 2018 9:13:12 GMT
somehow i feel sorry for that „director“ : it seems he doesn’t trust his work to speak for itself so he has to put some publicity to it in any way he knows, and he chose to slay a great musical to do it. Well, if its the only way to advertise it, what a poor poor person
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Post by crowblack on Dec 25, 2018 10:14:43 GMT
sorry never heard of that actor before, so my points as stated above still stand-above them all that as... of an director He is one of the best young actors around, and people who saw his debut in Dickensian were tweeting he'd make a great Enjolras back in 2016 before the BBC version was even announced. If you watch this - and I really hope you do - you'll see what we mean. Enjolras is the novel is modelled visually and verbally on the 1790s revolutionary Saint Just, and his appearance as described isn't actually period-appropriate for the 1830s. And nowhere in the novel does it state that Enjolras walked around dressed like a military horseman in battledress - no civilian in the 1830s, in fact no civilian until 1960s hippies and 1980s New Romantics, would have walked around a city in a gilded hussar waistcoat, but the Les Mis musical fandom don't all say "right, I'm boycotting this musical - this character is dressed entirely inappropriately!" Also, why are you criticising the director, Tom Shankland? He didn't make these comments. It's Andrew Davies, the screenwriter, who was criticising the musical.
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Post by indis on Dec 25, 2018 13:34:30 GMT
then not the director, the writer with his awful interviews
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Post by Jon on Dec 25, 2018 18:44:33 GMT
It's just his opinion, I don't get why people are getting so wound up. It's also not nice to call someone you don't know an idiot.
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Post by justfran on Dec 31, 2018 18:59:16 GMT
What were initial thoughts on episode one then? I thought it was a bit slow, maybe just because it is setting up for the next 5 episodes. I do miss the songs though 😉
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2018 19:12:24 GMT
I enjoyed episode one! it's a slow burn for sure, but so are most of Davies' adaptations (and that's sort of the point isn't it? ) I confess I had moments of singing the songs in my head - it's hard not to when they repeat '24601' over and over. But I also enjoyed the 'breathing space' to learn more about the characters. And Dom West is predictably excellent. As was everyone else from what we saw in episode one (ok Fatine was a bit annoying but as a character she is so that's hardly the actress' fault). I also enjoyed Johnny Flynn being a bit of a lad, but not quite, which seems his niche.
I'm not a huge fan of the musical (as in I like it well enough but I've only seen it live twice and have no overwhelming desire to add to that again in the immediate future) so I don't know what character details are VERY different, but that's like me whining the stage version of Pride and Prejudice wasn't exactly the same as Davies' version- Colin Firth in the pond and all.
Finally, as much as I joined in some twitter bitching about Davies' ill-thought comments, my take is that it's more a case of foot-in-mouth and quotes taken out of context. Les Mis isn't even every musical theatre fan's cup of tea never mind someone who isn't into musicals (which is a perfectly fine and reasonable stance) Would I publicly decry the most famous version of the thing I'm selling? probably not...but Davies is 80-something and one of the most successful TV writers we have so I don't think he's ALL that bothered.
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Post by crowblack on Dec 31, 2018 19:19:16 GMT
I think they've done a good job - I liked the Fantine bits more than I expected, there were some strong scenes and Derek Jacobi was superb. Oddly, given the praise being heaped on him at the mo, the issues I had with it were with Davies' dialogue and structure, particularly the clunky scene between Javert and Jean Valjean in the prison (the "I'd have made a better criminal than you" bit), and I'm not keen on the way they seem to be doing Javert's character in this, sneery, sadistic and crowing. Still, it's early days and the reviewers who saw the first two episodes said it steps up a gear in part 2.
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Post by crowblack on Dec 31, 2018 19:27:23 GMT
Btw, I'm not a fan of the musical but as the novel itself is a weirdly-structured melodrama jam-packed with implausible coincidences I don't think turning it into a musical is a 'travesty' - I just don't like any of the songs! I see More4 are trolling the BBC by screening the musical this evening.
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Post by jaqs on Dec 31, 2018 19:42:34 GMT
Derek Jacobi with his quiet faith and calm was the absolute highlight from what felt like a dreary costume drama with too many storylines at once.
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Post by daisy24601 on Dec 31, 2018 21:05:29 GMT
I liked the Valjean scenes best, getting to see a bit more of him struggling with the idea of being "good" than we do in the musical.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2018 21:11:48 GMT
I really enjoyed it and looking forward to the rest. so far it seems a better made piece of tv than War and Peace.
I also watched the special on Andrew Davis on Bbc4 after and it made me even more sure he knew what he was saying when he criticised the musical. He's talented no doubt, but he sure has his opinions
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Post by Phantom of London on Dec 31, 2018 21:27:35 GMT
I love Les Miserables, the best musical ever and only wish I could seen from the beginning with the magnificent Colm Wilkinson, saying that I didn't love the movie and thought Russell Crowe was flat out awful and Hugh Jackman was a little better.
It has been very faithful to the book, however a bit of a ingenious to start the drama with the battle of Waterloo and Thenardier robbing soldiers' bodies, which is a lot further on in the book. Also when Valjean steals a Sou from the boy, before Valjean commits to Christianity, which is from the book. Also good to see that Fantine as a middle class bourgeoisie and the director done a brilliant job on doing this by giving her the ability to read, before her scripted 'fall from grace.'
So even I could shed a tear when the great Derek Jacobi as bishop buys Valjean soul, which isn't bad for a devout atheist
However
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2019 3:14:54 GMT
It's a slow burn I guess that's the point of a mini-series. Fantine's backstory adds a further level of tragedy in she was used by the man she loved.
I've just had a browse at the thread and the screenwriters comments are odd, his dialogue isn't high art. He doesn't seem to understand Musical Theatre as it's own distinct art form and how a musical operates, and frankly how Les Miserables and Phantom in the Eighties revolutionised the art form.
Maybe I am biased, I was just saying how I think I dreamed a dream is one of the top musical theatre songs ever written in my opinion.
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Post by crowblack on Jan 1, 2019 11:32:57 GMT
He doesn't seem to understand Musical Theatre You can understand it while still hating it: when I was a kid I took a friend to see one of my favourite goth bands and she left after the first song and hid in the toilets for the rest of the gig. She did the same when I took her to an indie film, walked out after 5 mins and sat in the cafe very p-d off I didn't join her. She liked boybands and 'The Sound of Music' which was/is my idea of hell. And the media likes a row. The Andrew Davies vs the musical story got Les Miserables half of the front page of the Torygraph yesterday, with a great big photo of Lily Collins in costume: free advertising.
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Post by lynette on Jan 1, 2019 11:34:06 GMT
All for the publicity. He is a v clever chap.
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Post by crowblack on Jan 1, 2019 11:51:20 GMT
They showed some old headlines in that BBC4 programme on him - he knows controversy generates publicity. Social media may have changed the game a bit - hardcore Les Mis musical fans saying they want to boycott it, and actors from the musical and TV versions coming out to woo them back by praising both adaptations. Fan culture is a fascinating thing, so this will be an interesting interaction to watch.
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Post by johartuk on Jan 1, 2019 13:58:19 GMT
I enjoyed the first ep - though I did find myself mentally slotting the songs in. I thought Dominic West was excellent, as was Derek Jacobi as the bishop. Not sure about Javert - he doesn't seem to have the edge to him that the character needs.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2019 18:04:20 GMT
I enjoyed the first ep - though I did find myself mentally slotting the songs in. I thought Dominic West was excellent, as was Derek Jacobi as the bishop. Not sure about Javert - he doesn't seem to have the edge to him that the character needs. David Oleyowo is a brilliant actor who is sadly often overshadowed by the overrated Idris Alba. I agree though his Javart wasn't quite right in the first episode but it's early days
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Post by daisy24601 on Jan 1, 2019 18:16:24 GMT
I enjoyed the first ep - though I did find myself mentally slotting the songs in. I thought Dominic West was excellent, as was Derek Jacobi as the bishop. Not sure about Javert - he doesn't seem to have the edge to him that the character needs. There were definitely some points that begged for lines of the songs, especially when Valjean was given one coin after the others got two, "You've given me half what the other men get!"
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2019 14:22:48 GMT
I miss the revolve.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2019 17:55:58 GMT
I enjoyed it.
I don't know why I lost interest in musicals - Les Mis was the first proper one I saw, back in the late 80s I suppose. I loved it at the time and saw it quite a few times (not LOADS, maybe 10?) including on Broadway and with little Jon from S Club, which was the last time I saw it. I then just... never wanted to go again somehow. At one time I played the soundtrack to death, but haven't listened to it in a long time, and only watched a few bits of the film, which I hated.
I didn't miss the musical element at all with the drama version. I'm all for different versions of things, different interpretations and so on. I've never seen an Andrew Davis thing I've disliked so far, although some stories appeal more than others.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Jan 5, 2019 23:44:51 GMT
I was underwhelmed - but will give it another go with episode 2.
I felt that Jacobi was underused - the Bishop sequence is central to Valjean's transformation - and it didn't have the weight it needed.
I have no idea why we needed a peeing in the woods sequence - unless he was hoping for a bit of controversy (in which case he failed)
It just feels a bit overdone in places - particularly David Bradley who just gave us the same snarling character he usually does this time with a powdered wig.
Not sure it was the right writer for this project.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Jan 6, 2019 22:08:50 GMT
Really missed the songs tonight - because it was closer to the structure of the musical, it would have been so easy to slip them in.
I am still conflicted over it. I don't think it is a very effective adaptation. The dialogue feels somewhat too pedestrian.
High production values, expensive casting - just not very engaging.
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Post by crowblack on Jan 7, 2019 11:08:51 GMT
it would have been so easy to slip them in Why? It's an adaptation of a 19thc novel, not a 1980s musical. I thought this week's was much better - less of the verbal exposition and more visual storytelling. The settings looked more lived-in too - last week's felt too clean. I thought the plot change - having Valjean sack Fantine while unsettled after the cart incident - worked well (it seemed quite random in the novel, from what I remember) and the Thenadiers and tooth-puller were excellent. Nice seeing Erin Doherty in there too, albeit briefly. I'm still unsure about the characterisation of Javert - he comes across as a vindictive, sadistic a-hole/Spaghetti Western villain rather than the inflexible embodiment of state law, and in the current era when no grey area or nuance seems to be allowed in public discourse, the puritanically black-and-white, humourless character of the novel would have been an interesting one to re-examine.
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