1,481 posts
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Post by steve10086 on Oct 14, 2019 23:58:47 GMT
His rare talent still makes me cry right from the prorogue. Has Boris Johnson been at it again?! |
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Post by miz on Oct 15, 2019 5:59:22 GMT
His rare talent still makes me cry right from the prorogue. Has Boris Johnson been at it again?! Gha! Spelling mistake corrected! |
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Post by vickyg on Oct 15, 2019 9:49:10 GMT
My quest to see JOJ perform in Les Mis or Phantom has come to an end it was 1000% worth the wait. Saw this last night and I can't improve on what other people have said. I feel extremely lucky to have seen this production. I loved being able to see the orchestra and that they were a tangible part of the performance and from box D where I was sitting (alone, the best night of my life) I could see that the vast majority of the audience understood the perfection they were seeing.
There were a few available seats around though. Besides the one next to me I counted about 10 that I could see in the stalls and dress circle which surprised me but then again the prices are considerable.
I agree with the person who said that JOJ should be publicised as the star of the show. In musical theatre land you don't really get any bigger. Alfie Boe is more of a household name though...
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Post by miz on Oct 16, 2019 17:28:41 GMT
It was an absolutely gripping performance this afternoon. So good, in fact, that I felt almost dizzy. God bless JOJ and the rest of the cast.
The principal Eponine was abscent on Monday and Tuesday, but she was back today. The understudy Eponine very much looked the part but, vocally, still had room for improvement. She also forgot to tuck her hair in her cap in the barricade scene. If I remember correctly, she was still being called a boy. No matter. I was still glad to see an understudy being given a chance. Actually, Grantaire was also played by an understudy on Monday.
BTW, if I am not mistaken, Feuilly (I think) was missing this afternoon. I don't remember seeing him or hearing his part ( ......"the blood of the martyres will water the meadows of France") in the DYHtPS. Can anyone explain this ?
Before the show, I again went to the box office to see if I can change my ticket to a better one paying the price difference as I have done a few times before. The lady at the box office told me it would be 150 pounds but would not tell me which seat it was, not even which row. I was not ready to shell out 150 but felt her behavior to be a kind of passive-aggressive. No explanation. She just kept saying "No".
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Post by 141920grm on Oct 16, 2019 20:03:33 GMT
The continual excellence and consistency of JOJ's performances never cease to amaze me. I bet even on his "off days" he can out-act/sing most of his peers. Glad to hear you enjoyed your what, 10th, show! I don't have any more shows planned but don't mind standing, hope to catch at least one of his final shows to commit the memory to heart!
Vinny Coyle, I think, plays Feuilly. Usually he sings alongside the students then climbs to that elevated middle part (above the main staircase leading down) to do those solo lines you mentioned. So was he just missing the whole time leaving the orchestra on their own (ha!) for that entire part? Intriguing...
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Post by miz on Oct 16, 2019 21:59:56 GMT
The continual excellence and consistency of JOJ's performances never cease to amaze me. I bet even on his "off days" he can out-act/sing most of his peers. Glad to hear you enjoyed your what, 10th, show! I don't have any more shows planned but don't mind standing, hope to catch at least one of his final shows to commit the memory to heart! [ Vinny Coyle, I think, plays Feuilly. Usually he sings alongside the students then climbs to that elevated middle part (above the main staircase leading down) to do those solo lines you mentioned. So was he just missing the whole time leaving the orchestra on their own (ha!) for that entire part? Intriguing... br]I always think exactly the same as you said. JOJ's ability to be always perfect seriously amazes me too. I am sure he can outperform anyone in his sleep. Yes, that's right. There was someone who went up to the elevated middle bit and sang but not with the usual lyrics, not the blood of the martyres. It was lyrics from another part of the same song as if the actor momentarily forgot the correct lyrics and improvised. In the evening, there was no such surprise, but still, Feuilly looked different to me judging by the clothes he was wearing. It may be just me remembering his costume wrong though. I have 5 more shows. And then, the current run ends. I don't know what I would live for after that. At least, I will no longer have to live on instant noodles. |
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Post by mrmushnik on Oct 17, 2019 0:23:38 GMT
Saw this again tonight, on a whim (a pricey one, admittedly)
I really love the simplicity of the staging. I would say it is blocked rather than directed and the calibre of performers are doing instinctively what thy feel is correct. The orchestra is excellent and the ensemble terrific in what little they have to do.
JOJ is brilliant at marrying the vocals with the acting. he inhabits the character 100% and your heart breaks for him at the end. Despite earlier reservations on previous visits about Michael, he now puts so much into the characterisation and both the big numbers are very well acted. He got a brilliant response from the audience. CHF’s voice is silky smooth and she is always in the moment, which in this format can be tricky.
I thought Matt Lucas was awful. I just don’t like the amount of unscripted asides, especially during the bargain. He doesn’t bring any variety to the character at all and the audience were quieter towards him that before but then maybe i’m too much of a purist. I should wait until the cover is on again. I think Katy Secombe carries him. Her characterisation is spot on and the audience were loving everything she did. Bradley Jayden was a vocally powerful Enjolras although his acting does flatline a little. Craig Mather was on for Marius and acted it so much better than Rob. Shan Ako nails On My Own but I’m not so sure if I like her outside of the big number. Lily Kerhoas was dull as Cosette. I have seen spunkier ones over the years.
On the whole, it was worth the revisit. Think I will wait for a recording before seeing it again. My bank balance needs a bretather
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422 posts
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Post by carmella1 on Oct 17, 2019 3:39:16 GMT
I totally agree about JOJ's performances. They are virtually identical. Every thought, every gesture, every note, exactly the same. He truly knows JVJ.
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573 posts
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Post by Dave25 on Oct 17, 2019 8:58:01 GMT
JOJ is brilliant at marrying the vocals with the acting. I think this is because he understands that the notes work as actors too and dares to let them flow. He does not over-act every note on top of the singing too. This is what Hugh Jackman does, he disrespects the material, by separating the acting from the singing and switches all the time (even 4 times in 1 line) and that is acting in spite of song and makes it very insincere, almost like a parody. I wish JOJ would have been in the film, it would have been much more natural and sincere. It is all about understanding the essence of this artform and language. |
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Post by miz on Oct 17, 2019 12:39:38 GMT
Funny things happened yesterday. On my Twitter feed, somehow some Alfie fans' tweets were pushed to me. One of them said that she went to see Alfie last night but NOT DISSAPOINTED (by JOJ). Another said that JOJ did a good job but wondered how Alfie was. ... I know they meant no ill, but I think being a household-name star's fan sometimes damage their sense of perspective.
Another thing happened last night during the interval. Several ladies in the loo queue were confused saying there were no AB or MB. I explaned to them that Wed is usually AB's night but not this week, and MB was actually playing Javert. They just could not believe it re MB. But one of them said she was happy to see at least one of them, the BB duo. So, I said she was extremely lucky to be seeing the best JVJ in the world, to which another lady shook her head in disapproval. I had a busy day.
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Post by 141920grm on Oct 17, 2019 13:51:34 GMT
Oh god, once I got to chat with a seat neighbour (think Dawn's snootier, sober cousin) about understudies as we had quite a few on. She had seen the concert several times and complained she was unlucky enough to only have caught AB once, having seen JOJ for her other outings. Slightly miffed at her tone I explained there was a set schedule, adding having seen both I thought JOJ had better acting and if she appreciated that? Naturally I also brought up the weekend Earl covered Javert for MB, how some understudies were seasoned Les Mis veterans and she wouldn't be losing out either way.
She actually responded in all seriousness saying she didn't care how good the understudy was, if AB/MB wasn't on the next time she went she would ask for a refund! (Her husband wisely stayed out of the conversation, lol)
This concert is a reminder of why I dislike celebrity casting, the close-mindedness of some fans is shocking... And all the ill-timed applause/whistles distracting from the music.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2019 4:47:24 GMT
She actually responded in all seriousness saying she didn't care how good the understudy was, if AB/MB wasn't on the next time she went she would ask for a refund! (Her husband wisely stayed out of the conversation, lol) This concert is a reminder of why I dislike celebrity casting, the close-mindedness of some fans is shocking... And all the ill-timed applause/whistles distracting from the music. To be fair, this production was originally billed as an "All-Star Concert" led by Alfie Boe and Michael Ball - and priced accordingly - knowing they would tap into the huge following Boe and Ball have as a duo.
I'm not convinced this concert version of Les Mis wasn't just set up as a way to get AB and MB on stage together in a production of Les Mis. Would they have just done a concert version at these prices if they hadn't had "celebrity casting"? As much as I like John Owen Jones and Earl Carpenter, I'm fairly sure the run wouldn't have sold as fast at inflated prices if they had been cast in the roles full-time.
I'm taking my mum to see this in November. She's seen Les Mis many times throughout the years, including performances with John Owen Jones and Earl Carpenter (and really enjoyed their performances). However, I know if I had asked her if she wanted to make a trip to London to see the show again, but a scaled-back concert version, for £100+ a ticket, she would have said no. But she also likes AB/MB and has seen their concerts and bought their CDs, so this is an opportunity to see them in Les Mis together. So she wanted to go. She's not "close-minded", but would be disappointed if she doesn't get to see them.
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Post by miz on Oct 18, 2019 7:39:38 GMT
You make a fair point about pricing and the popularity of MB and AB. Still, I wonder if the current show would have reached such a high artistic standard if it hadn't been for JOJ undetpinning the overall quality.
As I said before, the satisfaction of seeing a famous face on stage and being moved by a geneiunly high quality performance are two different things. Had the show simply relied on the two STARs' pulling power alone, it might have become another of those cheapish crowd pleasers.
At the end of the day, I don't think fan girls' enthusiusm alone could have sustained the level of buzz the current version is enjoying. It needs something more solid than that. And something more solid is provided by JOJ's quality performance. And he is also helping the entire cast to up their games as well. When an actor of JOJ' talent is giving his all as JVJ, other actors naturally respond to it. Look at how MB is improving as Javert. I don't know if he could've reached the current level had he always paired with his chum who should not have been cast in the first place simply because he is a singer and not an actor. JVJ is a role a beautiful voice alone isn't enough to do justice.
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Post by eponineserrand on Oct 18, 2019 9:08:37 GMT
I think that's also my issue with the film (Anne Hathaway aside) If they'd cast "proper" musical theatre actors in the leads it would have been so much better. I'm a huge LesMis fan and was really disappointed with the film.
I went to see the concert because I'm a fan of the show, the household names did nothing to provoke me into getting a ticket, in fact that's why I purposefully booked a JOJ date over Boe. I didn't mind Matt Lucus/Ball but I've seen better in their respective roles (although I admittedly expected a bit more from Balls Javet having seen him do a great job as Sweeney Todd.)
For me it was the extremely talented ensemble cast (& orchestra) who were the stars of the Les Mis concert for me.
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573 posts
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Post by Dave25 on Oct 18, 2019 9:26:13 GMT
I don't know if he could've reached the current level had he always paired with his chum who should not have been cast in the first place simply because he is a singer and not an actor. JVJ is a role a beautiful voice alone isn't enough to do justice. Very well said, it's an interaction and I would also like to add that AB's singing is subpar for the role. AB sings the whole show, an I mean every note of the show on the same, even volume. There is no coloring of the notes, no nuances, no different intonations. 1 trick, 1 technique, 1 volume for every note. So it's not only the lack of acting that doesn't do it justice. |
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Post by Dave25 on Oct 18, 2019 9:30:09 GMT
As much as I like John Owen Jones, I'm fairly sure the run wouldn't have sold as fast at inflated prices if they had been cast in the roles full-time.
This is an interesting given, and it makes me think what actually makes a "name" or a "star"? It is definitely not about quality or talent. So what is it? Is it being quirkier or funnier in interviews? Are some actors too serious about their craft and not funny/amiable enough in the media? Which makes the fangirls/housewives less engaged? Is this ruining the quality of productions? Questions, questions..... |
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318 posts
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Post by MrBraithwaite on Oct 18, 2019 9:46:39 GMT
This concert is a reminder of why I dislike celebrity casting, the close-mindedness of some fans is shocking... Well, when I as a fan can only see a show once when I am in London for a few days I want to see the celebrity that was announced when I booked. Also this is a special limited presentation, not the usual Les Mis production. If people go multiple times to see the concert I can totally understand that they are happy to see understudies. Even as I didn't like Michael Ball much as Javert, if he wasn't on the night I went, it would always be the 'the night we went Michael Ball was off'-experience, regardless if his understudy was better or worse. Don't get me wrong, understudies in the West End are great (unlike in German shows usually). The first show I saw in London was Chicago when Ruthie Henshall was back and she was the only one of the cast I had heard about (beside some Backstreet Boy). She wasn't on that night but her understudy was sensational. Still would have liked to see her.  |
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573 posts
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Post by Dave25 on Oct 18, 2019 9:47:11 GMT
I think that's also my issue with the film (Anne Hathaway aside) If they'd cast "proper" musical theatre actors in the leads it would have been so much better. I have had many discussions about this with people. I totally agree that they should have cast "natural" singers, which naturally "act through song" instead of "in spite of song". And yes, often "proper" musical theatre actors can do that because they understand and master this language of acting through notes. Some people then said: "But this is film, not Broadway." That argument makes me angry. Because approaching this artform and language in a natural way works best on both film AND stage. What they do in the film is embarrassing. They speak 4 words, and then use a 5 second vibrato on the 5th word. They separate acted words from notes. Which makes it feel extremely broadway parody and insincere and embarrassing. Acting in spite of song. And then still sing a note. In the film Hugh Jackman speaks: "Now....come on....ladies...settle......and then he uses a 5 second forced fake Broadway vibrato on the word "dooooooooooooown". That is Broadway parody on not filmic and not natural. Every stage Valjean I have seen, and also in the ON SCREEN versions of both the 10th and 25th anniversary concerts this is much more natural, because both Valjeans (even Alfie Boe) are more filmic and natural than Hugh Jackman, and sing the line very natturally "now come on ladies, settle down (and they both keep the word "down" short, which is essential for that line to make it feel natural). Acting out every word on top of the note you hear is like children's theatre/pantomime and this over-acting/exaggeration ruins the material. It's double up. The material is already written like that for a reason and disrespecting that and acting in spite of song and over-acting is by no means the solution. About Anne Hathaway.....the only reason her scene somewhat worked is because she was crying her way through it. Using crying to apologize for non-singing always works, because crying revokes that per definition. If I see a stranger cry in the street I tend to cry too. For every other emotion and scene in the film it does not work. That's why the film is an unwatchable self-pitying crying drab. And still the notes don't make sense. It's just a showcase of "why the hell is she attempting singing at all between a sniff and an over-acted word". |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2019 10:59:46 GMT
So you can very much count me in the Les Mis fans category, who booked a JOJ show specifically as I love the show and I wanted to see it performed by the best people.
But I can kinda see where the people who only wanted to see Alfie are coming from. I think these are fans of Ball&Boe, not of Les Mis. Was billed as "all star," priced accordingly and if you have bought your ticket as you wanted to see the Ball and Boe show, I guess it doesn't matter how good the U/S is, you are not getting what you feel you paid for.
That said, you would hope that once the show got going, you would lose yourself in the Les Mis magic and forget your annoyance and reservations.
Anyway, the whole advertising 'names' (but small print of you are paying for the show not the name) will no doubt be an issue (for the GBP, not for most board members) for years to come....
And certainly there is no way they could have charged the eye watering prices without Ball&Boe.
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Post by jcs619 on Oct 18, 2019 11:08:39 GMT
So you can very much count me in the Les Mis fans category, who booked a JOJ show specifically as I love the show and I wanted to see it performed by the best people. But I can kinda see where the people who only wanted to see Alfie are coming from. I think these are fans of Ball&Boe, not of Les Mis. Was billed as "all star," priced accordingly and if you have bought your ticket as you wanted to see the Ball and Boe show, I guess it doesn't matter how good the U/S is, you are not getting what you feel you paid for. That said, you would hope that once the show got going, you would lose yourself in the Les Mis magic and forget your annoyance and reservations. Anyway, the whole advertising 'names' (but small print of you are paying for the show not the name) will no doubt be an issue (for the GBP, not for most board members) for years to come.... And certainly there is no way they could have charged the eye watering prices without Ball&Boe.
I totally agree with what you say and surely the only way to satisfy people in both 'Star' / 'Potentially Best Performer' categories would be to offer Refunds on the day/night if the person you had specifically paid for is ill / indisposed. Speaking as someone who paid £300 to not see Glenn Close in Sunset at the Coliseum I've always thought that this should be the case.
I'm sure it would cut down on Celebrity Absenteeism by a huge amount too if their wages were docked. I'm sure that if the producers who set these inflated prices were hit in the pocket they would be more selective in who they allow to be cast and talent would really shine through and be rewarded...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2019 11:28:46 GMT
So you can very much count me in the Les Mis fans category, who booked a JOJ show specifically as I love the show and I wanted to see it performed by the best people. But I can kinda see where the people who only wanted to see Alfie are coming from. I think these are fans of Ball&Boe, not of Les Mis. Was billed as "all star," priced accordingly and if you have bought your ticket as you wanted to see the Ball and Boe show, I guess it doesn't matter how good the U/S is, you are not getting what you feel you paid for. That said, you would hope that once the show got going, you would lose yourself in the Les Mis magic and forget your annoyance and reservations. Anyway, the whole advertising 'names' (but small print of you are paying for the show not the name) will no doubt be an issue (for the GBP, not for most board members) for years to come.... And certainly there is no way they could have charged the eye watering prices without Ball&Boe.
I totally agree with what you say and surely the only way to satisfy people in both 'Star' / 'Potentially Best Performer' categories would be to offer Refunds on the day/night if the person you had specifically paid for is ill / indisposed. Speaking as someone who paid £300 to not see Glenn Close in Sunset at the Coliseum I've always thought that this should be the case.
I'm sure it would cut down on Celebrity Absenteeism by a huge amount too if their wages were docked. I'm sure that if the producers who set these inflated prices were hit in the pocket they would be more selective in who they allow to be cast and talent would really shine through and be rewarded...
So this is what happened when Sheridan was off from Funny Girl - people were offered exchanges/refunds. I saw NJB and was perfectly happy as had wanted to see Funny Girl. But when you have SS fans who don't specifically wanna see Funny Girl you have a problem. I guess it's all about the buyers intention. Most people will have a mix of wanting to see Les Mis and certain performers. But then you have people at the extremes who want Ball and Boe and really have no interest at all in Les Mis (which is a shame, but there we are). For them the understudy could be God himself, it would still be inconsequential. In my world, the solution is to advertise the SHOW, and the cast is small print. But sadly in 2019, that doesn't put bums on seats. |
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Post by David J on Oct 18, 2019 11:47:12 GMT
I think that's also my issue with the film (Anne Hathaway aside) If they'd cast "proper" musical theatre actors in the leads it would have been so much better. I have had many discussions about this with people. I totally agree that they should have cast "natural" singers, which naturally "act through song" instead of "in spite of song". And yes, often "proper" musical theatre actors can do that because they understand and master this language of acting through notes. Some people then said: "But this is film, not Broadway." That argument makes me angry. Because approaching this artform and language in a natural way works best on both film AND stage. What they do in the film is embarrassing. They speak 4 words, and then use a 5 second vibrato on the 5th word. They separate acted words from notes. Which makes it feel extremely broadway parody and insincere and embarrassing. Acting in spite of song. And then still sing a note. In the film Hugh Jackman speaks: "Now....come on....ladies...settle......and then he uses a 5 second forced fake Broadway vibrato on the word "dooooooooooooown". That is Broadway parody on not filmic and not natural. Every stage Valjean I have seen, and also in the ON SCREEN versions of both the 10th and 25th anniversary concerts this is much more natural, because both Valjeans (even Alfie Boe) are more filmic and natural than Hugh Jackman, and sing the line very natturally "now come on ladies, settle down (and they both keep the word "down" short, which is essential for that line to make it feel natural). Acting out every word on top of the note you hear is like children's theatre/pantomime and this over-acting/exaggeration ruins the material. It's double up. The material is already written like that for a reason and disrespecting that and acting in spite of song and over-acting is by no means the solution. About Anne Hathaway.....the only reason her scene somewhat worked is because she was crying her way through it. Using crying to apologize for non-singing always works, because crying revokes that per definition. If I see a stranger cry in the street I tend to cry too. For every other emotion and scene in the film it does not work. That's why the film is an unwatchable self-pitying crying drab. And still the notes don't make sense. It's just a showcase of "why the hell is she attempting singing at all between a sniff and an over-acted word". Objectively I agree that I have seen actresses onstage that have sung I Dreamed a Dream better than Anne Hathaway On the other hand Hathaway’s Fantine is the only one I cried for in that moment. A lot of it was it was because of her acting in that close up (the one close up that really worked for me) but I also felt the song being moved till after she’s been degraded added to that. I think where the Idad is sung is the reason i never feel emotion for fantine in the stage production.There’s no build up to it and you barely get to know her in person. There’s more emotional weight behind valjeans soliloquy because you get to know him and his suffering from himself during that prologue. For Fantine you are told about her from the factory workers point of view whilst she has a few lyrics in Ateotd And I feel that restricts what the actress can do in idad. Then again I’ve seen the same direction in the original version enough times that maybe the new version might bring something new, but I didn’t feel anything for Katie Halls fantine either. Only Rachelle Ann Go and possibly Sierra borgess made me feel anything. I’d like to see rachelle again next year for that reason So I don’t think Anne Hathaway is the best fantine. But i do prefer the film version of Fantine to the stage version Also I read somewhere that it takes some skill to sing and cry at the same time And Hugh Hackman’s bring him home was the worst rendition I’ve heard from a professional actor. He might as well had had sung through his nose it sounded so nasally. Worse than any of Russel Crowe’s singing I’d say |
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Post by Dave25 on Oct 18, 2019 12:57:15 GMT
And Hugh Hackman’s bring him home was the worst rendition I’ve heard from a professional actor. He might as well had had sung through his nose it sounded so nasally. Worse than any of Russel Crowe’s singing I’d say I agree. I think this film is a showcase of actors struggling with the material, and some of them try to pass it off as a struggle with the story line, by the use of crying. |
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Post by matilda1 on Oct 18, 2019 13:47:20 GMT
RE Alfie Boe.
I acknowledge that he has a fine voice, and I have been to several of his concerts. I increasingly get the feeling though that he is searching for an identity. He does not want to be known as an opera singer, so he went down the route of trying to be a rockstar, this didn't work. I feel that he has to a certain extent sold out by his collaboration with MB. It must be financially very lucrative, but I for one have no desire to see them perform together, much as I like them individually.
I find it interesting how AB is viewed differently in terms of this concert as opposed to the 25 yr Anniversary one. Then, he was a relative unknown/ newcomer. His BHH was revered . This time around, he seems to be coming in for quite a lot of criticism. During his run as JVJ ,AB was frequently unable to perform. THis seems to be a theme with him. Ironically, this works in JOJ's favour.
Just wondering what peoples' thoughts are. Incidentally I think that JOJ is superb too.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2019 16:00:59 GMT
RE Alfie Boe. I acknowledge that he has a fine voice, and I have been to several of his concerts. I increasingly get the feeling though that he is searching for an identity. He does not want to be known as an opera singer, so he went down the route of trying to be a rockstar, this didn't work. I feel that he has to a certain extent sold out by his collaboration with MB. It must be financially very lucrative, but I for one have no desire to see them perform together, much as I like them individually. I find it interesting how AB is viewed differently in terms of this concert as opposed to the 25 yr Anniversary one. Then, he was a relative unknown/ newcomer. His BHH was revered . This time around, he seems to be coming in for quite a lot of criticism. During his run as JVJ ,AB was frequently unable to perform. THis seems to be a theme with him. Ironically, this works in JOJ's favour. Just wondering what peoples' thoughts are. Incidentally I think that JOJ is superb too. Don’t forget this board is a microcosm! I really don’t think AB has come in for a lot of criticism, other than on here.... |
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