294 posts
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Post by dani on Dec 10, 2018 16:28:20 GMT
I'm starting a separate thread for this, as I think it's going to generate some interest. It seems to have had three previews already, so I am guessing there will be some discussion here soon. Lynn Nottage is a brilliant writer, and Lynette Linton's appointment to run the Bush perhaps adds to the interest focused on this production.
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87 posts
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Post by greenswan on Dec 12, 2018 8:51:50 GMT
Fairly broad reaction after seeing this yesterday: quite a middle of the road production for me. Lots and lots of talking but nothing new in terms of the thinking behind it and overall it felt quite slow. It’s just redrawing the industrial decline in the West and what that may look like for the working class. A subject that could be interesting is talked to death. Specially detested the overly didactic ending. The acting was ok, it just didn’t really come alive. I wouldn’t say don’t go but don’t expect to be more than mildly entertained. Hope the next one at the Donmar will be more exciting.
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Post by catcat100 on Dec 13, 2018 0:04:24 GMT
Much more positive reaction here.
OK first half is a lot of building storyline and characters and you get to half time and don't really feel much has happened. Second half comes alive almost straight away and pretty much keeps on going until the end.
The play raises quite a number of issues regarding the downturn in american life for working class people and shows both the causes of and reactions to the situation (I can see here why it won a pulitzer).
But for me the real beauty is in how I relate this to us here in the UK. Not just now and the dreaded 'B' word but historically, the industrial neglect of the north, miners in south wales.
As in the play, you see us fighting against those around us who might be a bit different, who may have come from abroad, blaming people who are just doing the same as us and trying to survive rather than blaming the real culprits. I fully empathise with the newly promoted manager, having worked in a big multi-national bank I've seen managers trying to justify decisions made way above them.
At the moment we are losing our way with brexit, our government seems to be more focused on their own infighting than dealing with the real issues. Perhaps the Donmar should do a special showing of this just for them. Although they may need to get someone to explain a number of the points as some of them are a bit thick. (sorry got a bit ranty there).
Would agree that a bit of the finale is a bit of overkill but it does emphasise the question on who gets hurt when we fight amongst ourselves.
Overall a game of two halves but boy what a second half. Plenty to think on if you like that sort of thing. Struggling not to give this 5 out of 5.
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Post by romeo94 on Dec 14, 2018 23:33:17 GMT
Absolutely loved this tonight- seriously terrific cast for a seriously terrific play.
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Post by missthelma on Dec 15, 2018 19:52:37 GMT
Well I have to say I thought this was pretty tremendous after seeing the matinee today.
I've wanted to see a Lynn Nottage play for a fair while but somehow never have. I found her writing to be really impressive, it's so rare I think to hear 'natural' sounding dialogue on stage rather than dialogue which is exposition or character building that it seems startling at first. It's very cleverly weaved together with the necessary building blocks for the story in this. It doesn't as noted cover any new ground but with the current issues both at home and abroad (say no more!) it feels very vital and alive. Also given the time frame of the play, it highlights that nothing that's happening now is unprecedented or truly unfamiliar.
I don't think there was a weak link in the cast, I thought they were all superb but special mention must go to Clare Perkins who probably has the most difficult role and slays it quite frankly. And I must disclose my bias for Martha Plimpton who can do no wrong in my opinion and should have a mantel full of awards by now.
I'm not sure I get the dislike mentioned above for the ending, it felt dramatically tidy if cliche, I wonder how else things could have gone though?
The set is functional without being anything special. It runs 2 hours 30 minutes, the wonderfully helpful signs give you precise timings of 1 hour 13 minutes for Act 1, and 1 hour 1 minute for Act 2. Clearly someone is being a little pedantic somewhere in the Donmar!
Obviously any trip into London's 'glitzy' West End at this time of year is fraught with the risk of contact with the seething masses. And indeed today did not disappoint with everybody and their brother frantically charging about, however the Stupid Dial had only been set to 8 for the most part.
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3,578 posts
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Post by showgirl on Dec 16, 2018 6:02:21 GMT
Glad you enjoyed it, missthelma; I was also at yesterday's matinee but you seem to have covered just about everything! I found it long, intense and engaging, though I did think the very last part of the ending went too far. Without spoiling it for those yet to see this, one of the two developments would have sufficed imo. And unlike you, I had no idea who any of the cast were, but I prefer it that way as then nothing gets in the way of seeing them as the characters. |
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Post by eatbigsea on Dec 19, 2018 6:38:26 GMT
Oh, i thought this was just phenomenal. I’m really surprised that Oslo beat it to the Tony (although even more pleased that A Doll’s House Part 2 didn’t win, because that would have been an utter travesty) and not surprised at all that it won the Pulitzer. It was a beautifully constructed play, tackling complex American issues of race, class, deindustrialisation and nationalisation. It made me despair for both that country and this one, because I think things are going to get a lot worse before they get better. And the acting was great. Some minor accent wobbles, but overall very good.
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Post by crowblack on Dec 20, 2018 12:05:33 GMT
I hope this gets a transfer, given the reviews. I'd love to see it - I was hoping to get to the matinee this weekend but there isn't one!
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3,578 posts
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Post by Rory on Dec 20, 2018 12:07:12 GMT
I hope this gets a transfer, given the reviews. I'd love to see it - I was hoping to get to the matinee this weekend but there isn't one! I second that! Would dearly love to see it. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2018 12:59:36 GMT
No doubt
This is a fine evening out
It’s a good (but far from amazing) play
With some of the best acting of the year
Truly excellent performances
You also leave the theatre thinking hard
BUT
The whole concept relies on this
“Poverty porn” which theatre so often falls back on
The conversation around me during the interval was pretty stunted
“Oh I did my 11 plus as a child and had support”
“Oh they don’t understand the value of education”
My point is that the play only presented things from the viewpoint of the workers and was also pretty simplistic on that front
At the end of the day the people portrayed were not complex individuals
Their aspirations and enjoyment
Derived from spending money they didn’t have on large amounts of alcohol and cigarettes
They were presented as lacking any sort of resilience to find an alternative job or move away from the area
They were so attached to the past in a way I found unattractive that I didn’t have any empathy for their situation
I would have liked to see someone from the plant owners as they likely also have a family and financial commitments
The play didn’t delve anywhere into wider issues
About how society want everything for nothing and they want it now
This is why costs are being squeezed and labour costs are pushed down in order to maximise profits
Given Lyn Nottage claims she did 2.5 years of research for this play I find it amazing this is the outcome
A one sided moan fest about how people are f***ed over by the corporates
There were also inconsistent comments
“I am making good money at the plant”
“I have worked at the plant for 24 years”
And then suddenly after 2 months of no work they are relying on unemployment money
Where were their savings and rainy day contingency?
sh*t happens people lose their jobs
Some people spend their life scraping by
The “get out” of education was also a dated view
Plenty of people have a university degree
A student loan they will never pay off
And job they could have got without any higher education
Things aren’t black and white anymore in terms of life and job progression
The play had a very black and white view and babyish at that of what “success” is
As I said the acting was amazing
But presenting a bunch of no hopers who are pretty nasty people and quite stupid with it
To a white middle class audience to perve over and pretend to be outraged about
Seems so insincere
Also the bar fight was so pathetically staged
Really unconvincing
But again the acting is totally wonderful
At the end I sort of felt everyone got what they deserved
Other than the poor bar man who was injured
But again this was freak accident as part of the fight
And it felt contrived and detached from the main plot
I wonder if you showed this play on a tour of industrial towns in the UK and USS
Outside of the confines of middle class theatre
If they would be raving about it
I doubt it
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Post by Boob on Dec 22, 2018 17:13:05 GMT
I seem to remember reading this play was presented to the very people it depicts and they were deeply moved.
Not defending the play, though, which I’ve not seen. But I remember finding “Ruined” by the same playwright patronising, pompous and massively overrated.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2018 17:20:43 GMT
I seem to remember reading this play was presented to the very people it depicts and they were deeply moved. Not defending the play, though, which I’ve not seen. But I remember finding “Ruined” by the same playwright patronising, pompous and massively overrated. There is an element of pomposity here And I am not sure what the message is Don’t do jobs that are unskilled I am unsure Anyway I didn’t feel sorry or sad for the characters in the slightest Taking alcohol and drugs and smoking and beating people up is not the solution to anything They got what they deserved I loved Ruined Amazing it was |
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Post by Phantom of London on Dec 28, 2018 0:30:22 GMT
I thought this is an incredible stunning play.
Funnily enough the play reminded me of the brilliant Laure Wade’s Posh, except the social situation is juxtaposition. I agree with Parsley that the acting is stunning. Could Lynn Nottage be the female August Wilson? I hope so.
I am still reeling from this 2 hours later, as it is mind bending brilliant, although written 2-3 years ago, but this play speaks of today and ‘inward’ America. Plays like this could make America great again.
This will transfer and hope we see more of Lynn Nottage.
5 Stars
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Post by drmaplewood on Dec 28, 2018 23:26:17 GMT
Absolutely loved this tonight - possibly my play of the year and the best thing at the Donmar for a very long time. Highly recommended.
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Post by david on Jan 5, 2019 22:49:17 GMT
After watching this tonight, and the Donmar really has got a little gem of a play here. As a complete theatrical package, this ticks all the boxes for me. A fantastic piece of writing which doesn’t shy away from dealing with the subject matter of the human impact of job losses on communities. The writing was brought to life by a terrific cast which really made me care about the characters they portrayed on stage. There are have been a few duds at the Donmar recently, but when they get it right, they hit the mark. This is easily a 5* production and a great start to the 2019 programme.
For 2hrs I was totally engrossed in the play and as others have stated and which I totally agree with is totally relevant in today’s political and economic climate in the U.S.
If you’ve been lucky enough to get a ticket, your in for a great night.
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Post by barelyathletic on Jan 8, 2019 10:29:16 GMT
Quite simply the best piece of new American writing I have seen in years. Lynne Nottage's skill as a dramatist is extraordinary and is given full justice here by her brilliant director, designer and cast. The way she unfolds her plot is utterly compelling and the characters are rich, deep and full of life. If there was any justice this would win every Best Play award of 2018. It's my best of the year so far. I know its only January, but it quite probably will be still come December (I look forward to seeing the play I enjoy more). If you can't get to see this then do read it. It's a modern masterpiece and should be experienced by anyone who loves great theatre. Absolutely outstanding.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2019 10:08:38 GMT
Short extension ...
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3,578 posts
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Post by Rory on Jan 10, 2019 10:25:04 GMT
Great but I hope this isn't in lieu of a transfer. |
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Post by MrBunbury on Jan 10, 2019 10:26:02 GMT
Great but I hope this isn't in lieu of a transfer. I don;t think so because it is just an extension of one week. |
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Post by Rory on Jan 10, 2019 11:04:51 GMT
When asked about a transfer for Sweat in the Guardian yesterday, Martha Plimpton said " As regards a transfer / extension, watch this space". Hopefully we'll get both.
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Post by Mark on Jan 10, 2019 11:27:22 GMT
Hope I can get to this now!
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Post by jadnoop on Jan 13, 2019 2:32:44 GMT
Wow, I thought this was a really good play that touched on hugely timely and important topics. While it didn't quite reach the high watermark of recent drama on the decline of American industrial cities that was the second season of The Wire, this was still a great, thought-provoking couple of hours.
While the play was clearly written with a specific viewpoint to tell, the characters felt well rounded and 'true' with human (ie shifting and often contradictory) ideas and motivations driving their actions. I also really liked the fact that the story restricted itself to the central characters rather than attempting to go further. No doubt another side to this tale might come from the factory owners, or their customers (I.e. us), but imo it's completely fine for a complex story to be told without covering all the bases.
As @theatremonkey mentioned, I also felt that, while the first half was fantastic, the second was weaker. And unfortunately, while I agreed with the sentiment of the play, I really disliked the final scene and a half, which felt too contrived and explicit about its mission statement. For me the message of the play was clear, and it would have been far more impactful if it had ended in a more subtle manner.
Similarly, the fact that they played Childish Gambino's 'This is America' at the end also felt a little on the nose.
All in all though, despite some minor niggles I felt that this was really good. It was my first play for 2019 and a great start to my theatre-going year.
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Post by wannabedirector on Jan 13, 2019 10:25:37 GMT
I saw this on Friday night, and I really think it lives up to all the hype. I went through all the emotions, and leaving with This is America playing in the background just gave me chills. Nottage’s explanation of why America is where it is now is not just incredibly insightful but also moving. The two and a half hours flew by.
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Post by crowblack on Jan 13, 2019 10:29:11 GMT
I also really liked the fact that the story restricted itself to the central characters rather than attempting to go further. I think that was crucial - we didn't even see the bar owner: all the decisions made that affect the lives of the characters are made from high above by an invisible, untouchable Olympian caste, so the characters instead vent their upset and anger sideways, and division and an element of racism enters. |
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Post by n1david on Jan 15, 2019 10:06:21 GMT
I thought this was really good - there's nothing particularly original in it, there's a long tradition of plays like this about the exploited working class, but I thought this was well done, with a good range of characters, well-acted and an avoidance of cliché. Agree with the comments that the final scene is a bit too on the nose, I would have been happy had it ended with the previous scenes. The quality of the play and the production was notable as I was supremely unhappy with the couple next to me who felt obliged to provide their own commentary to the play, one particular joy was: (note, plot point in spoiler text) ON STAGE, along the lines of "She only got the job because they were looking for a minority"
HIM: "Just the same in England these days"
HER: "Exactly the same" If there's one thing I hate more than knee-jerk conservatism, it's knee-jerk conservatism in the middle of a play... They also (not so politely) declined my offer to show them how to put their Apple Watches into Theatre Mode at the interval. Mind you, if it had been in Theatre Mode he wouldn't have heard the chirrup and checked his messages halfway through Act One. On a lighter note, I did think that Martha Plimpton would be a shoo-in to play Anna Soubry in the next big Brexit drama. |
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