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Post by Steve on Jun 21, 2018 21:57:40 GMT
For some reason fat = funny. Even Shakespeare played by that rule. I think the reason fat = funny is that it is one of the very few physical indicators that a person puts base indulgence over striving for perfection. Funny performances are nearly always about puncturing pretension, and base indulgence always punctures it. Melissa McCarthy's signature movie scene has her going to the bathroom in a sink. In the movie theatres, that got the biggest laugh because it is the least dignified thing a person could ever do, the shredding of all dignity for the basest reason possible: You gotta go when you gotta go. Her weight is a subconscious signal that she will stoop to base actions, and puncture the pretensions of everyone in her orbit. Ryan is our comedy all-star on Theatreboard for the same reasons. Everyone anticipates that he will puncture the pretensions of every other comment, and focus on the basest, most indulgent, most relatable preoccupations any human being has. A muscular man on stage isn't funny, because he is aspiring to achievement in the field of bodily perfection, but Ryan in the wings, licking his lips, inches away from being served his next injunction, IS funny. This is brave comedy, because pretensions sometimes don't like to be punctured. If a fat person is revealed to be fat because of a disease or ailment, then they cease being funny. The audience knows that what they are seeing is not comic indulgence, but sad fate. So a fat comedian often must hide such a fact from the audience, to keep them laughing. |
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Post by Polly1 on Jun 21, 2018 22:40:45 GMT
Back to the play, and sorry lynette but from your front row seat (own cushion provided) I thought this was ace. Engrossing even though I knew the story and brilliantly acted from the whole cast. Some very funny lines too. I think Angus Wright is meant to drop the ring, it ended up in his trouser turn-up this afternoon. I loved the adaptation and tried to buy a script but they don't seem to be available yet. |
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Post by mallardo on Jun 22, 2018 6:13:58 GMT
Polly, I'm afraid I had rather the opposite reaction. I thought David Harrower's new adaptation was efficient and slick in its storytelling but lacked, well, drama. It all felt rather flat and undercooked to me with many big moments not given their due. I didn't think the framing device worked particularly well and probably undercut (via foreshadowing) many of those big plot moments. And crucial information got lost. I didn't get one of the great underlying motives for Miss Brodie's reluctance to marry until I read the programme notes after the performance.
Of course, when all is said and done, the play is about one person and Lia Williams's Jean Brodie is quite magnificent. She seemed somehow crazier than I remember the character when played by Maggie Smith, but with a casual every day craziness that passes perfectly for eccentricity. And of course she has charisma to burn. It's never in doubt as to why her students adore her and the men in her life can't get enough of her.
Everyone in the cast is good - Angus Wright, in particular, is pitch perfect - but, for me, this version of the play just doesn't give them enough chances to show it. |
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Post by theatrelover123 on Jun 22, 2018 7:22:26 GMT
Polly, I'm afraid I had rather the opposite reaction. I thought David Harrower's new adaptation was efficient and slick in its storytelling but lacked, well, drama. It all felt rather flat and undercooked to me with many big moments not given their due. I didn't think the framing device worked particularly well and probably undercut (via foreshadowing) many of those big plot moments. And crucial information got lost. I didn't get one of the great underlying motives for Miss Brodie's reluctance to marry until I read the programme notes after the performance.
Of course, when all is said and done, the play is about one person and Lia Williams's Jean Brodie is quite magnificent. She seemed somehow crazier than I remember the character when played by Maggie Smith, but with a casual every day craziness that passes perfectly for eccentricity. And of course she has charisma to burn. It's never in doubt as to why her students adore her and the men in her life can't get enough of her.
Everyone in the cast is good - Angus Wright, in particular, is pitch perfect - but, for me, this version of the play just doesn't give them enough chances to show it. Ooh can you share the underlying motives mentioned in the programme as I didn’t get to buy one (spoiler free, of course) |
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Post by jek on Jun 22, 2018 7:40:26 GMT
Don't think it is a spoiler to mention - as is related in the programme - that we are talking about a time when the marriage bar was still very much a thing. Women in teaching, the civil service and much else were not allowed to continue working after marriage. Strange to realise how recently this was the case.
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Post by theatrelover123 on Jun 22, 2018 7:55:25 GMT
What sort of drinks do they serve at this marriage bar?  |
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Post by mallardo on Jun 22, 2018 8:02:33 GMT
Don't think it is a spoiler to mention - as is related in the programme - that we are talking about a time when the marriage bar was still very much a thing. Women in teaching, the civil service and much else were not allowed to continue working after marriage. Strange to realise how recently this was the case.
Indeed, this is what I was referring to. It's almost the most important fact of the play - it explains so much. Perhaps it's in the play and I missed it but if so my wife missed it as well and she's a lot smarter and more attentive than I am.
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Post by jek on Jun 22, 2018 8:46:29 GMT
What sort of drinks do they serve at this marriage bar? A cocktail of resentment, anger and poverty! |
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Post by Polly1 on Jun 22, 2018 9:34:50 GMT
Don't think it is a spoiler to mention - as is related in the programme - that we are talking about a time when the marriage bar was still very much a thing. Women in teaching, the civil service and much else were not allowed to continue working after marriage. Strange to realise how recently this was the case.
Indeed, this is what I was referring to. It's almost the most important fact of the play - it explains so much. Perhaps it's in the play and I missed it but if so my wife missed it as well and she's a lot smarter and more attentive than I am.
As far as I remember, the girls mention it explicitly and Brodie herself implies it, but maybe I just picked up on it as I knew about it. Interesting to hear whether complete newbies to the story understood the implications. I thought the foreshadowing made some aspects much more poignant (as in, e.g. Dancing at Lughnasa). The chief thing I liked about the script was the humour (although I imagine most of the best lines were Spark's own). |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2018 13:30:00 GMT
On the interesting topics of people's sizes - there have probably been more "larger" ladies performing in musicals than plays. A couple of the mature leads in The Band and the one part in Mamma Mia calls for ladies of a certain size.
But the critic commenting on a young performers' weight in Miss Jean Brodie and having mentioned it when the lady in question was in an earlier was certainly uncalled for as there is no reference to the character's size in the play and the lady was cast as the best person for the role.
There will always be larger character performers of both genders and they will be cast for some roles because of this but they will also be cast in general roles. The RSC had Ben Goffe who is a well known dwarf actor in the company last year or the year before playing a none size specific role. Ben will be doing the Palladium panto this year where he has been cast for his height for example. |
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Post by showgirl on Jun 23, 2018 22:11:12 GMT
I enjoyed the matinee today, probably helped by never having seen a previous version or read the book. The running time seems to have come down as it was only about 2 hours 25 today - though the incredibly slow audience then took about another 5 minutes just to get to its collective feet, never mind the slow, painful process of filing out of the auditorium and down the stairs. Come on people, some of us have other performances to get to or trains to catch - or we might simply want to reach the loos before the queue snakes half-way round the building!
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Post by mallardo on Jun 24, 2018 8:31:37 GMT
I watched the movie of The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie again last night and much preferred it to the current Donmar production. There's not much to choose between the wonderful leading ladies, although Maggie smith seemed much more self-assured than the vulnerable and slightly fragile Lia Williams and thus had farther to fall in the end.
But Jay Presson Allen's screen adaptation of her play was so much stronger than David Harrower's drab Donmar version. It's the difference between a writer with genuine dramatic instincts and a writer with a journeyman's mentality of simply telling the story in an efficient way. I gather Harrower's version is closer to Muriel Spark's original novel, but so what? Fidelity to the original is never to be preferred to a creative adaptation which identifies and highlights the key moments of the piece to capture its essential spirit.
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Post by oldhasbeen on Jun 24, 2018 16:47:10 GMT
I read the book and saw the film years ago, I thought this stage adaption worked really well, catching the spirit & feel of the novel. I much preferred Lia Williams to Maggie Smith in this role, small hints of vulnerability went a long way. Terrific performance by Angus Wright too.
The way the girls "aged" - more by their attitude to Miss JB than to actually looking older - was very well done.
The only thing I would have changed is how Miss JB discovers who her betrayer was, which seemed very perfunctory,
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Post by showgirl on Jun 25, 2018 3:38:46 GMT
Coincidental but having seen this and previously Lia Williams as Mary, Queen of Scots in Mary Stuart, the two roles seemed to me to have similarities in both being about women who were initially confident and pushing barriers, only to end up at bay, cornered and broken, though still showing small signs of their old spirit. Not a criticism, but I'd like to see Lia Williams doing something completely different which doesn't remind me of these roles.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2018 13:36:04 GMT
Don't think it is a spoiler to mention - as is related in the programme - that we are talking about a time when the marriage bar was still very much a thing. Women in teaching, the civil service and much else were not allowed to continue working after marriage. Strange to realise how recently this was the case. Thanks, Jek. This fact really informed my engagement with the play and made the tragedy of Brodie’s predicament more resonant. Pity the playwright didn’t make anything of this as it would have added substance to the text. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2018 13:44:09 GMT
To add to the discussion about A critic’s body shaming of performer Nichola Coughlan: it struck me while I was watching the play that this particular performer’s body shape is not the first thing I would note about her performance. If I was going to mention her physical appearance I might mention how beautiful she is or I would mention how good she is - in my opinion hers is one of the standout performances, although they are all very good.
I also loved the design of this production - very clear and beautiful. I loved the costumes too. Brodie’s lovely well cut dresses in bold dramatic colours contrasting with her attire at the end (apart from her crimson shoes). I even liked Mrs Mackey’s dress - very well tailored. I liked the way the costume was used to change the girls’ body Shape so they transformed from children into young ladies.
I don’t think i’ve seen Polly Findlay’s work before but I am impressed and will look out for more.
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Post by vegas on Jun 27, 2018 16:49:48 GMT
I was fortunate to see this during my 2-week theatre spree in London. It was very well performed, and a highlight of my trip (along with Tina and An Octoroon).
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Post by showgirl on Jun 27, 2018 17:02:04 GMT
I was fortunate to see this during my 2-week theatre spree in London. It was very well performed, and a highlight of my trip (along with Tina and An Octoroon). Glad you enjoyed your trip and your highlights - which I assume reflect your choices in general - are amazingly varied! |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2018 10:11:47 GMT
Thought this was weird
But okay
Second half much better
First half slow and lacked momentum
Quite melodramatic story
Can’t stand Lia Williams usually
Didn’t mind her in this
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Post by daisy24601 on Jun 29, 2018 15:53:54 GMT
There are a few stalls seats still available on certain dates, how terrible are the seats? My back tends to have some issues sometimes, is row D better than the front?
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Post by mallardo on Jun 29, 2018 16:00:21 GMT
The front row is better than row D - they are supplying cushions with the school chairs. The Donmar is one of those theatres where in the stalls you can be blocked by the person in front of you so row D is often a problem.
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Post by daisy24601 on Jun 29, 2018 17:10:37 GMT
Okay thanks, I am short so that is a worry too. Are the seats at the front different?
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Post by peggs on Jun 29, 2018 20:57:30 GMT
The first few rows are wooden school like chairs for this production hence the cushions, the view will be great there though, you're inches from the stage.
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Post by mallardo on Jun 29, 2018 20:58:21 GMT
Okay thanks, I am short so that is a worry too. Are the seats at the front different?
As peggs says. I can't personally vouch for the cushions but from a distance they looked to be reasonably padded.
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Post by peggs on Jun 30, 2018 13:01:47 GMT
I think leg room should be Ok from row and probably yes more than usual though as a not very tall person I've never found it an issue there. I'd always take front row there over anything else.
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