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Post by partytentdown on Feb 18, 2018 13:41:28 GMT
If you're disappointed by the Daily Mail's latest spree of nastiness towards gay parents, not to mention its generally vile recent history towards all manner of minority groups, you may be interested to hear that members of the theatre community have started a petition to ask SOLT (Society of London Theatres) to start an industry-wide discussion about the necessity to advertise in the Daily Mail and to continue providing it with exclusive news. (if you're unaware, the Friday 'Baz' column traditionally breaks theatre-land exclusives by arrangement with the PRs of many producers and venues, and many theatres to continue to advertise their shows in print in the Mail even though print advertising is diminishing... why? Because, despite their very right-wing angle, it's one of the the country's most read papers and most direct routes to 'Middle Englanders' with disposable income who tend to buy expensive theatre tickets, particularly to plays) www.change.org/p/society-of-london-theatre-theatre-industry-to-stop-advertising-in-the-daily-mail
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Post by callum on Feb 21, 2018 1:48:35 GMT
Baz’s own politics seems to be very out of step with the politics of his paper, much more so than Quentin Letts for example. The links he posts are almost always New York Times, Washington Post, Guardian etc. Perhaps if the petition picks up steam he’d consider the move to another outlet.
Does he provide much other content for the Mail? I’ve often wondered why, if in his weekly column he posts simply the latest theatre news, this requires (presumably) the Mail to pay for him to be at every major film festival and the Oscars/Tony ceremony every year. Though he is the absolute guru of showbusiness.
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Post by Mr Snow on Feb 21, 2018 6:37:17 GMT
Surely you want to speak to those people? You want their money to keep more of the industry working? Wellcome to the real world, complicated isn't it?
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Post by Mr Snow on Feb 21, 2018 6:40:15 GMT
Sorry poor editing meant above quote relating to post above, missed.
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Post by Jan on Feb 21, 2018 6:57:37 GMT
I think the Mail is a terrible newspaper so I don't read it at all. This seems to put me in a small minority of the people posting here. Shouldn't the first step be you all stop reading Baz ?
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Post by martin1965 on Feb 21, 2018 7:04:19 GMT
I think the Mail is a terrible newspaper so I don't read it at all. This seems to put me in a small minority of the people posting here. Shouldn't the first step be you all stop reading Baz ? Oh they dont read it prof. They just follow Baz on twitter and get excited each thursday night! It is an awful newspaper and ive often wondered why BB has stayed so long, i mean i recall reading his column in the 80s.
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Post by Jan on Feb 21, 2018 7:13:18 GMT
I think the Mail is a terrible newspaper so I don't read it at all. This seems to put me in a small minority of the people posting here. Shouldn't the first step be you all stop reading Baz ? Oh they dont read it prof. They just follow Baz on twitter and get excited each thursday night! It is an awful newspaper and ive often wondered why BB has stayed so long, i mean i recall reading his column in the 80s. Many read it simply in order to be offended as far as I can see. Anyway, unfollowing Baz on Twitter would be an excellent and visible way for the theatre industry to express their disapproval ? Where's the petition for that ? I assume BB is still there because he gets well paid and doesn't object to their politics - simplest explanation.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 8:03:11 GMT
Even if we all unfollowed Baz, his “gossip” would still get “leaked” and therefore spread around. Which is why the petition is targeting the PRs that use him. Because unless they stop a relatively small boycott from the hardcore theatre fans isn’t going to do much for Daily Fail revenue. Especially considering (at a guess) most of us aren’t buying the newspaper anyway.
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Post by Jan on Feb 21, 2018 8:11:53 GMT
Even if we all unfollowed Baz, his “gossip” would still get “leaked” and therefore spread around. Which is why the petition is targeting the PRs that use him. Because unless they stop a relatively small boycott from the hardcore theatre fans isn’t going to do much for Daily Fail revenue. Especially considering (at a guess) most of us aren’t buying the newspaper anyway. My guess is a lot of people are clicking on their on-line site to get offended by stories they publish and those clicks bring them advertising revenue. As an extra lever unfollowing him on Twitter will help persuade theatre PRs not to use him. Of course both these things require actual action on the part of those complaining.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 9:45:58 GMT
That's a lot of guessing, especially considering it's SO easy to just go and check out Baz's Twitter feed late on a Thursday or early on a Friday without having to actually follow him or meaningfully engage in any other way.
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Post by Jan on Feb 21, 2018 10:05:13 GMT
That's a lot of guessing, especially considering it's SO easy to just go and check out Baz's Twitter feed late on a Thursday or early on a Friday without having to actually follow him or meaningfully engage in any other way. My guess actually was that many of those who thought they might be offended by the Tom Daley article had gone over to the Mail website and actually read the thing. The purpose of the protest seems to be to have fewer people read what BB writes by lobbying PRs to stop giving him information, but a far more direct approach which could be done in parallel is just to stop reading what he writes, but it seems people here don't want to do that and are creating improbable scenarios to justify it (hands up who looks at Baz's Twitter feed every week but doesn't follow him ?). Another idea would be to lobby BB directly and tell him he's a disgrace - why not ? I should emphasise that I'm occupying the moral high ground on this one - I never read the Mail in any form and I never see anything Baz writes or tweets.
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Post by Someone in a tree on Feb 21, 2018 11:15:16 GMT
I am with the good Dr Brock on this one
I never read the Mail (plus several others) What ever B.B. tweets it always gets discussed on here, WoS and various other sites
I am happy with my stance and I wish lots of others would follow my moral high ground!
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Post by vdcni on Feb 21, 2018 12:40:24 GMT
Even if you follow Baz that doesn't mean you have to read any articles - the info is in the tweet after all. It's also his personal account so the Mail gain nothing from it.
And nowadays you don't have to read the original article to get the gist of what the controversy is about as it is reported on by other sources. I often see people on twitter directing people away from reading Mail articles to specifically avoid giving them clicks.
I don't read any articles by the Mail ever but I usually am aware of what the latest nonsense they have come up with is.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 12:53:42 GMT
From parody tweets and screenshots (and not going anywhere near the Mail or following anyone who works for the Mail), I can see that today's Mail controversy involves Quentin Letts unironically using the word "harlots", though the state of the world being what it is, I cannot tell from context who these particular "harlots" are supposed to be. I guess it's something to do with the current Oxfam scandal?
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Post by vdcni on Feb 21, 2018 13:12:44 GMT
It is indeed about Oxfam.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 13:20:50 GMT
I think the Mail is a terrible newspaper so I don't read it at all. This seems to put me in a small minority of the people posting here. Shouldn't the first step be you all stop reading Baz ? I agree with your views but i think it is important to emphasise that the boycott is against the DM and not B.B.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 15:46:13 GMT
People don't necessarily learn to distinguish though. There's an understanding that newspapers present fact, but any look at the (teeny tiny hidden-away) corrections boxes reveals that newspapers peddle whichever lies suit their agenda. And let's not forget that they've spent YEARS dismissing Media Studies as a Mickey Mouse subject, and yet people are surprised that people are less able to tell fake news or political opinion from a baseline fact. Also make no mistake, you can present a fact (for example, Isabel Oakeshott's "there are a lot of disabled spaces in this car park and they are unoccupied") in a way that utterly warps the context and misleads the audience (yes, Isabel, but only 4% of the car park, which is also the population of the UK who are Blue Badge holders, and it's a huge car park, and also when you start ragging on the disabled then you're not the one who's going to come off smelling of roses).
I don't have any ideas on how to fix wide-scale lack of journalistic integrity, but I think the idea of left-wing arts organisations actively dissociating themselves from publications that they don't agree with politically isn't exactly an anti-free speech/pro-censorship stance. The Mail can and does print what it wants, but that doesn't mean advertisers or PR agencies have to support, condone, or even associate with them.
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Post by showgirl on Feb 21, 2018 16:02:52 GMT
Well said, @theatremonkey.com. What happened to defending others' right to express their views regardless of whether you agree with them? And unless these views are illegal (eg inciting racial hatred, libellous/slanderous etc), anything else is surely censorship. If you don't like what you are hearing or reading, you can challenge it or ignore it, as you wish, but it won't stop people holding those views.
Where I volunteer, I often hear statements I find offensive because they are indeed racist, judgemental, etc, but I'm there to support service users, not criticise or police them, so I feel very uncomfortable. I usually respond with "I'm sure you realise I can't comment on that", but then they sometimes interpret my meaning as "I agree with you but I'm not allowed to say so", which is even worse.
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Post by Mr Snow on Feb 21, 2018 16:35:22 GMT
I don't have any ideas on how to fix wide-scale lack of journalistic integrity, but I think the idea of left-wing arts organisations actively dissociating themselves from publications that they don't agree with politically isn't exactly an anti-free speech/pro-censorship stance. The Mail can and does print what it wants, but that doesn't mean advertisers or PR agencies have to support, condone, or even associate with them. Question. Do you think publicly funded arts organisations should be “Left Wing.”? If they fund themselves then why not, but you didn’t specify who should ignore them and many Arts organisations receive some public funding. I note the publicly aided Southbank Centre are said to have withdrawn. If I really have to take sides on this I agree with theatre monkey. The Daily Mail allows an outlet for certain people’s views which could be much more rabid if somehow you forced it out of business or at least persuaded it to only print your views. Some people on here need to Google Tommy Robinson, who has a large social media following all of whom believe his views are censored by ALL mainstream media. Hint you won’t like what he says at all. Further I am concerned by the no of people who say they never read the Daily Mail. I am convinced that one of the reasons why Hillary Clinton lost is because her people did not listen to the views of enough people. They cocooned themselves inside their own little bubble, talking only to their supporters and tame PR outlets. Ignore/sideline the Daily Mail at your peril. Make their readers feel they are shunned and you open their ears to Tommy Robinson/Donald Trump.
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Post by vdcni on Feb 21, 2018 16:52:30 GMT
I don't know - should the police or the army be right wing? They are publicly funded as well after all.
So we should just accept everything the Daily Mail does because otherwise its readers will go rabidly racist and homophobic seems an odd argument particularly when the British political class has spent the last 30 years listening to the Mail above any other newspaper yet the Mail still prints front pages calling judges traitors for doing their job and is just as rabidly anti immigrant as it ever has been.
What do you do about a media outlet which is happy to lie and inflame on issues such as Brexit and faces no serious consequences.
Personally I couldn't care less whether the boycott or not but organisations make these kind of decisions all the time on commercial grounds and this is hardly an attempt to stop it publishing.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 18:06:32 GMT
Well said, @theatremonkey.com. What happened to defending others' right to express their views regardless of whether you agree with them? And unless these views are illegal (eg inciting racial hatred, libellous/slanderous etc), anything else is surely censorship. If you don't like what you are hearing or reading, you can challenge it or ignore it, as you wish, but it won't stop people holding those views. Where I volunteer, I often hear statements I find offensive because they are indeed racist, judgemental, etc, but I'm there to support service users, not criticise or police them, so I feel very uncomfortable. I usually respond with "I'm sure you realise I can't comment on that", but then they sometimes interpret my meaning as "I agree with you but I'm not allowed to say so", which is even worse. Isn’t it inciting gay hatred to state that heterosexual parents are better/best? Where does it end? To hold the opinion personally is one thing but to assert it from the platform of a newspaper is quite another.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2018 8:59:34 GMT
the British political class has spent the last 30 years listening to the Mail above any other newspaper . Totally incorrect.
We have a political system which allows parties to form and project unlimited opinions across the political spectrum.
The Daily Mail being popular and Labour only winning 3 elections in the last 40 years isn't mutually exclusive.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2018 9:03:44 GMT
And let's not forget that they've spent YEARS dismissing Media Studies as a Mickey Mouse subject, To be fair I think a lot of the distain for Media Studies is students studying it moaning about having to pay tuition fees.
Why should we have to foot the bill for them to study such a subject?
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Post by vdcni on Feb 22, 2018 9:15:41 GMT
the British political class has spent the last 30 years listening to the Mail above any other newspaper . Totally incorrect.
We have a political system which allows parties to form and project unlimited opinions across the political spectrum.
The Daily Mail being popular and Labour only winning 3 elections in the last 40 years isn't mutually exclusive.
You say totally incorrect and then say nothing to actually refute my point. I didn't say the Mail is the reason for the relative lack of success of the Labour Party. I would count the Blair/Brown government as part of the political class that was more concerned about what the Mail said than any other newspaper.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2018 9:30:33 GMT
Totally incorrect.
We have a political system which allows parties to form and project unlimited opinions across the political spectrum.
The Daily Mail being popular and Labour only winning 3 elections in the last 40 years isn't mutually exclusive.
You say totally incorrect and then say nothing to actually refute my point. I didn't say the Mail is the reason for the relative lack of success of the Labour Party. I would count the Blair/Brown government as part of the political class that was more concerned about what the Mail said than any other newspaper. The left is OBSESSED with the Daily Mail when it has a mouthpiece of similar stature in The Guardian.
Brown/Blair catered to the Daily Mail? Nonsense and I can't believe someone would actually believe such a thing. They appealed to Guardian readers and were absolutely hated by Mail readers for the most part.
Even the - proved to be incorrect - decision to invade Iraq was initially rooted in a liberal idea of 'liberating' a group of people. The fact that Blair was duped and hasn't admitted he got it wrong doesn't mean the initial thinking change.
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