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Post by jadnoop on Feb 19, 2018 5:40:51 GMT
have set out to obscure and obfuscate. Maybe the plays aren't finished yet! It's completely understandable that the plays aren't yet finished, but that doesn't really explain why some of the blurbs are quite so vague. I mean, even if the text isn't complete presumably they pitched their ideas to potential clients/their agent/directors/actors/their friends. They must have some idea about the intended narrative and tone, even if it might change over time; it's a comedy or a drama or a thriller; it's set in world war 2 or the future; it's... Of course, there are a few creators whose stories truly come out in the improvisation with the actors (Mike Leigh, for instance), but that's the exception rather than the rule. I mean, I presume that the theatres made their decisions based on more than 3 or 4 vague sentences, so it seems ridiculous that audiences have to decide about tickets based on what amounts to the literary equivalent of a perfume advert. |
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Post by dlevi on Feb 19, 2018 7:55:33 GMT
After more than a decade of seeing most of what the RC had to offer I took a break a couple of years ago from going as often as I did. Their idea of "new writing" could be easily translated into "young writing" and the plays I was seeing were almost interchangeable with disaffected youths and council estates always part of the action. I came back a few times The Ferryman(great) , The Kid Stays in the Picture (awful) and coming up "Boys and Girls" ( or is it "Girls and Boys"?) etc. and the results were mixed. However, I found myself thinking: I miss going there. I'll see a few of their attractions when I see the new season offerings. Then they announced it and I wanted to book but I found myself thinking: I really don't care about any of these plays. I'll wait. Judging by their availability chart I'm not alone. They have some serious marketing issues with which they should deal. Everything they've announced feels as if we've seen it there before . It's not helped by the bland clip-art aspect of their overall "look". Something is seriously wrong when one of our major theatres with a strong identity has sunk into this level of blandness.
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Post by Latecomer on Feb 19, 2018 9:03:56 GMT
Also price creep...and the ones I have sometimes booked for, they have had the cheek to send me money off offers...after I have booked! I know thst's the way the cookie crumbles but I hate it when loyal bookers are penalised for booking early!
And they sold my returned ticket for Girls and Boys but I have to have credit to be used within a year (I pointed out I have to travel from afar, and they just refused to budge, places like YV let you have unlimited time to use!)....come on RC, up your game!
I do love those seats, though.....
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Post by Rory on Feb 19, 2018 9:09:15 GMT
I agree with the above post to a large degree. It's a balancing act for the Royal Court between speaking to the moment and not making the audience feel they are being battered over the head with worthy, issues led drama all the time. I miss the seasons programmed by Dominic Cooke where you knew there would be a couple of things (eg Jumpy, Posh, Clybourne Park) which would be entertaining and perhaps also have a social point to make.
Very little in these RC seasons ever really jumps out at me now. Not everything should be a 'Hangmen' or a 'The Ferryman' but a little more drive to entertain as well as illuminate wouldn't go amiss.
And yes, the current penchant in general for oblique play descriptions is a pain when, for me, there are flights, hotels, train tickets to factor in. I want some semblance that I'm going to probably really like the damn show if it's potentially going to cost me serious wonga to see it!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 10:36:13 GMT
I should think it's the Royal Court marketing department that are almost wholly responsible for the content in their blurbs; they presumably have developed a "house style" that they believe plays well with their prospective audience. The playwrights will be asked to sign off on it all, but there might not be that much room for amendment.
Trying to judge the quality or content of plays from their blurbs is something of a fool's errand, and yet - when it is might be all we have in terms of information about a production - it can feel like a thoroughly unsatisfying riddle that we feel compelled to fiddle with in the quest for an answer to that perennial question; to book or not to book.
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Post by crowblack on Feb 19, 2018 10:44:30 GMT
Their idea of "new writing" could be easily translated into "young writing" and the plays I was seeing were almost interchangeable with disaffected youths and council estates always part of the action. Shame you've stopped seeing them - the upstairs plays I've seen by new, young writers, about troubled, low-income teenagers, have been some of the best: the current Gundog is haunting, My Mum's a Tw*t very lively, and the wonderful Wish List is one of my favourite things ever (and won a shedload of awards). The work I've seen by established, big name writers at the RC and NT is often disappointing: they don't seem to be subject to the same degree of quality control. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 11:26:16 GMT
After more than a decade of seeing most of what the RC had to offer I took a break a couple of years ago from going as often as I did. Their idea of "new writing" could be easily translated into "young writing" and the plays I was seeing were almost interchangeable with disaffected youths and council estates always part of the action. The RC hasn’t put new plays about disaffected youth plays on council estates on as a priority for decades. In fact it has been the opposite, with middle class concerns being the focus. Someone mentioning Jumpy, Posh and Clybourne Park from someone else making the point, just comfort food for the Sloane Squarites. There is an issue about older first time writers not having support compared to younger ones but that’s pretty systemic across the industry. |
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Post by dlevi on Feb 19, 2018 14:11:13 GMT
"The RC hasn’t put new plays about disaffected youth plays on council estates on as a priority for decades. In fact it has been the opposite, with middle class concerns being the focus. Someone mentioning Jumpy, Posh and Clybourne Park from someone else making the point, just comfort food for the Sloane Squarites."
Actually that's not true the My Mom's a Tw*t and Gundog and there have been others along the way which in my mind have become inter-changeable Pests, Yen etc. I guess my point really is that the Royal Court is in a down phase of some sort where the programming is generally unexciting and that's reflected in their marketing copy as well. Yes there's buzz when they come up with a Ferryman ( but it was always a short pre-west end engagement) or when they snag a star like Carey Mulligan, but the rest of it has been dull and/or predictable .The Almeida went through this when Michael Attenborough was there - you sort of felt as if the plays that were producing by name authors were at the bottom of that author's drawer or had been rejected by every other theatre in town. The last few times I've been in the theatre downstairs there were plenty of seats available - that's not a good sign. I'm not saying I want comfort food, I just want better plays. Lucy Kirkwood's The Children was pretty wonderful. A young author ( relatively speaking) dealing with larger issues of people not in her age group. My overall point being - I didn't book for anything they've announced. That's a reason for concern on their part because I'm a faithful theatregoer and when I can't find anything to book in a new season announcement for a major theatre then something has gone terribly wrong.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 19:42:54 GMT
"The RC hasn’t put new plays about disaffected youth plays on council estates on as a priority for decades. In fact it has been the opposite, with middle class concerns being the focus. Someone mentioning Jumpy, Posh and Clybourne Park from someone else making the point, just comfort food for the Sloane Squarites." Actually that's not true the My Mom's a Tw*t and Gundog and there have been others along the way which in my mind have become inter-changeable Pests, Yen etc. I guess my point really is that the Royal Court is in a down phase of some sort where the programming is generally unexciting and that's reflected in their marketing copy as well. Yes there's buzz when they come up with a Ferryman ( but it was always a short pre-west end engagement) or when they snag a star like Carey Mulligan, but the rest of it has been dull and/or predictable .The Almeida went through this when Michael Attenborough was there - you sort of felt as if the plays that were producing by name authors were at the bottom of that author's drawer or had been rejected by every other theatre in town. The last few times I've been in the theatre downstairs there were plenty of seats available - that's not a good sign. I'm not saying I want comfort food, I just want better plays. Lucy Kirkwood's The Children was pretty wonderful. A young author ( relatively speaking) dealing with larger issues of people not in her age group. My overall point being - I didn't book for anything they've announced. That's a reason for concern on their part because I'm a faithful theatregoer and when I can't find anything to book in a new season announcement for a major theatre then something has gone terribly wrong. None you mention were high profile productions, all upstairs. Having said that, the Court has been pretty good than it was under Cooke (when I barely went compared to more recently). |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 20:07:21 GMT
I think I agree somewhat about the interchangeability (is this a real word?) of the play’s and I think that has something to to with the ADs taste and vision about what Theatre should be. Fair enough...although I think that an AD has to programme against their own taste once in a while. That said, I can’t recall the last time I saw a new play at the RC that was set on a housing estate.
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Post by dlevi on Feb 20, 2018 8:13:10 GMT
I think I agree somewhat about the interchangeability (is this a real word?) of the play’s and I think that has something to to with the ADs taste and vision about what Theatre should be. Fair enough...although I think that an AD has to programme against their own taste once in a while. That said, I can’t recall the last time I saw a new play at the RC that was set on a housing estate. A fair amount of My Moms a Tw*t was set in various housing estates as well as other locations. As for the ADs vision of what theatre can be I think that’s actually the problem right now- I feel somehow that all of the Courts Outreach programmes ( largely due to Arts Council demands) is keeping the Court from doing their primary job which is to produce plays - all KINDS of plays. Looking at the upcoming season we could change the titles between them and be none the wiser - so vague and generic sounding are the plays and their titles. That was really my initial point . Sorry it got lost in this shuffle. |
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Post by foxa on Feb 20, 2018 9:10:22 GMT
About six months ago, I needed new trainers. I sussed out some types of trainers that I thought would do, but wasn't that fussed about a particular brand, etc. They just had to be fit for purpose, as well as fitting my very average sized feet. So I go into a local trainer shop armed with my credit card and indicate a pair of trainers in the window, asking if I could try those on. The assistant said, 'No, we don't have those in your size.' I said, well, something similar, roughly in that prize range. She couldn't suggest any alternative. A few minutes later I was on the kerb - no new trainers and a bit confused. She had made no attempt to sell me any shoes (rather the raison d'etre of a shoe shop) and really couldn't care less if I bought anything from then or ever again, despite my obvious intention to make a purchase.
I like and have a long loyalty to the Royal Court (as I said before usually try to buy at least a couple of tickets each booking period.) Sometimes there is something that sounds pretty surefire and sometimes there is something quirky or challenging that sounds appealing. This time, I went on, credit card in hand and really found it difficult to tell, from the information provided, if there was anything that wouldn't be a bad fit. I almost went away with no tickets (a bit like when I left the store with no trainers) but then ended up booking for two shows, one of which I almost immediately regretted as it is selling so poorly, I reckon there will cheap deals. A quick flick yesterday through a few random dates indicates that the Downstairs shows aren't selling very well at all (upstairs is busier.)
Now, I think the people who run the Royal Court are clever, so I am wondering if they have some aces up their sleeves. The announcement of the casting of Carey Mulligan was quite late, so I could feel smug about having taken a punt on tickets for Girls & Boys solely on Dennis Kelly's name, with Mulligan as a pleasant surprise.
But if a number of fairly adventurous theatre-goers are finding the description of the current season uninspiring, I wonder if they are getting it right....
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Post by Snciole on Feb 21, 2018 18:35:51 GMT
It is odd because in many ways they are still getting the star names, the critically acclaimed writers and directors but I just feel so meh about the seasons. I think the last time I was excited about an RC production was Cyprus Avenue with Stephen Rea's stunning performance and since The Sewing Group (which I hated) I can't even be bothered to check what is coming up. I just don't want to take the risk on RC anymore because I am not sure the RC wants to take risks anymore.
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Post by crowblack on Feb 21, 2018 19:00:11 GMT
I just don't want to take the risk What risk? £12 on a Monday and cheap shows upstairs: that's damn near cinema prices for some things. I've seen some excellent work there recently - maybe you should check in more often because it sounds like you've been missing the good stuff. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 22:52:12 GMT
True, but doesn't really work if you don't live in London! Interesting to contrast the announcements of new shows at Hampstead today - all give a good idea of the nature of the show, I think, plus much more useful info on the writer and director's previous credits than the Royal Court eg compare www.hampsteadtheatre.com/whats-on/2018/the-strange-death-of-john-doe/with royalcourttheatre.com/whats-on/woods/One key difference is that Hampstead lists credits from other theatres, so you can think "ah, I saw that one" or do a bit of quick hunting for reviews, but the Court only refers to previous shows at the Court. Plus at Hampstead we get phrases like "powerful and poignant", "based on true events", so you get the idea of the tone of it. Plus you get an image that (presumably) is representative of the play, rather than an abstract triangle. |
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Post by jadnoop on Feb 21, 2018 23:06:34 GMT
I just don't want to take the risk What risk? £12 on a Monday and cheap shows upstairs: that's damn near cinema prices for some things. I've seen some excellent work there recently - maybe you should check in more often because it sounds like you've been missing the good stuff. Sure, tickets can be only £12, but it's not really the full story. Once you include travel, a programme, maybe a drink or food, and it all adds up. Plus, aside from the monetary cost there's also the time. I'm sure a lot of us have commitments which means that evenings out are about more than just the cash. I know that for us, it's the wasted time as much as the money that's annoying when you go to see a bad play/film. |
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Post by crowblack on Feb 21, 2018 23:07:51 GMT
if you don't live in London! I don't live in London - I live in Liverpool, but the Royal Court is close to Victoria Coach Station so that's my cheap way to get home. |
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Post by foxa on Feb 22, 2018 9:04:03 GMT
Yeah - and for me it's the angry looks I get when I've dragged a companion to see something dire.
And I agree above with Xanderl - I felt I got much more of a sense of the plays just announced at Hampstead.
I'm still kicking myself for booking for one of the new season plays at the RC Downstairs - on the night for which I booked it appears they've only sold about 30 tickets - why did I rush? Fingers crossed for some brilliant casting....
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Post by NeilVHughes on Feb 22, 2018 9:22:08 GMT
For the first time, only booked the Downstairs plays on Monday £12 tickets, will take the Upstairs on a case by case basis when we have more information.
Do love this Theatre but have not been bowled over in a while, will most likely give in and see all the plays, this Theatre evolving into my Monday place. Ferryman really does not count as it came over ‘Contractual Obligation’ as it was alway destined for more.
For me Hampstead is the inverse of the Royal Court, with the best plays on the main stage of the Royal Court and in the Studio of Hampstead. (Not sure how Downstairs at Hampstead can consistently stage the plays it does at £12, rarely disappointed)
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Post by wiggymess on Feb 22, 2018 9:47:21 GMT
True, but doesn't really work if you don't live in London! Interesting to contrast the announcements of new shows at Hampstead today - all give a good idea of the nature of the show, I think, plus much more useful info on the writer and director's previous credits than the Royal Court eg compare www.hampsteadtheatre.com/whats-on/2018/the-strange-death-of-john-doe/with royalcourttheatre.com/whats-on/woods/One key difference is that Hampstead lists credits from other theatres, so you can think "ah, I saw that one" or do a bit of quick hunting for reviews, but the Court only refers to previous shows at the Court. Plus at Hampstead we get phrases like "powerful and poignant", "based on true events", so you get the idea of the tone of it. Plus you get an image that (presumably) is representative of the play, rather than an abstract triangle. Is it really too much effort for you to click the writer or director's name? :/ I'd say this is more than enough information on the writer for example: royalcourttheatre.com/cast/robert-alan-evans/ |
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Post by Snciole on Feb 23, 2018 11:21:46 GMT
What risk? £12 on a Monday and cheap shows upstairs: that's damn near cinema prices for some things. I've seen some excellent work there recently - maybe you should check in more often because it sounds like you've been missing the good stuff. Sure, tickets can be only £12, but it's not really the full story. Once you include travel, a programme, maybe a drink or food, and it all adds up. Plus, aside from the monetary cost there's also the time. I'm sure a lot of us have commitments which means that evenings out are about more than just the cash. I know that for us, it's the wasted time as much as the money that's annoying when you go to see a bad play/film. This, and those £12 tickets (if you can get them) add up if you book across the whole season, which being the Royal Court may transfer to West End or heavily discount depending on what audiences want so I don't feel I am missing out if I miss a production at the Royal Court. I would rather be at home, catching up on my stories, than put myself through another long and poor production (anywhere!) but if you haven't won me at the season announcements I am basically waiting on word of mouth when the production opens. |
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Post by crowblack on Feb 23, 2018 12:09:31 GMT
I've booked some £12 downstairs and will wait and see what word of mouth/cast is on the upstairs, though generally I've really liked what I've seen.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2018 12:22:39 GMT
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Post by foxa on Mar 2, 2018 19:10:47 GMT
Ticket availability remains spectacular for this show.
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Post by foxa on Mar 6, 2018 18:08:26 GMT
Just received an email from the Royal Court saying that they have added to more rows for 'Instructions for Correct Assembly.' As I was previously in first row seats, I will now be in third - though I can request to be in first.
Whaddya think? Third row probably better?
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