5,062 posts
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Post by Phantom of London on Aug 30, 2017 19:38:50 GMT
I am hearing this is a downturn in people going to the theatre.
2 musicals closed recently Beautiful and The Girls, however one theatre is dark and I cannot remember when ai saw a West End theatre being not filled and the other the Phoenix only taking in some tour. Several others are at risk of closing also. Are producers getting cold feet? With the pound being so weak, I would have thought tourist would be here in there droves?
oh well, when the theatre economy is bad, I suppose you get cheaper tickets, conversely when it's good you get new bigger shows, so you cannot win?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2017 19:46:12 GMT
In fairness, the Aldwych is only dark for renovation, and that's not just a cop out excuse, you walk past its covered in scaffolding. And Phoenix is just doing Evita and Exorcist before a bigger show goes in Spring 2018.
I wouldn't say that audiences are leaving the West End, I see it more as it just happens to be a turnaround right now where loads of shows happen to be closing at this particular time. Sixpence, Lady Day, Our Ladies, Bat out of Hell, Wind in the Willows in the big houses alone all planned to close around this time, and all these theatres have other shows planned to go in.
I haven't noticed a big difference on personal experience. Sixpence was full bar a couple of Balcony seats last night, Apologia was close to sold out too. Both performances of Yank were sold out both nights I went in the final week. To name but a few, but I haven't noticed a particular difference in the actual theatre. I think it is just a turnaround of theatres happening all at once.
I fully expect in the next few months to hear of a couple of transfers from New York too, which adds some excitement for the upcoming season.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Aug 30, 2017 22:54:57 GMT
I think part of the reason is the massive ticket price inflation we have seen in recent years. Yes, you could still get good deals if you know how but the headline prices are going to put a lot of casual bookers off (particularly when combined with stupid booking fees/restoration levies etc etc etc)
Going to the theatre might be a necessity to some on her, but to most it is a luxury, a treat, a special occasion. Price does come into the decision making process.
It is not just the West End that is suffering from this. Regional theatre is starting to get above itself in terms of top prices (and premium seats)
Yes, there are costs to be covered - but you have to offer audiences something they want to see at a price they are willing to pay.
At the moment, there is a case to be saying that producers are failing on both fronts.
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3,578 posts
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Post by showgirl on Aug 31, 2017 4:17:32 GMT
Not surprisingly I think there is an upsurge when a production is about to close, as I was hoping to catch Our Ladies in its final week but all the cheap deals had disappeared; however, I've certainly booked for almost nothing at my usual ATG venues this year (Richmond mainly, but sometimes Wimbledon and even Woking), solely due to - as I understand it from others here - their new policy of not offering members' discounts or deals.
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2,702 posts
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Post by viserys on Aug 31, 2017 6:11:44 GMT
I think ticket prices certainly come into it. But I also wonder about the bigger impact of terrorism on tourism. I know that visitor numbers went down in Paris after the Bataclan terror attacks - not sure if London has been similarly affected after the recent attacks on Westminster Bridge, Borough Market and perhaps also Manchester (with overseas visitors lumping all of England together). So, fewer tourists in totals would mean fewer tourists going to theatres as well?
But there are indeed plenty of new shows starting - a lot of it seems to be the usual summer downturn when local people (who are more interested in the smaller shows and plays) are on summer holiday or simply prefer to do other things and it should get lively again soon.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2017 9:51:32 GMT
For me, it feels like the West End is a bit stagnant. There was a time I'd make a deliberate trip to try catch 3/4 shows at a time, some new some repeat visits. But currently theres nothing there driving me to make a trip to London. The last two times I've been to a show has been because I've been down for work and had an evening off so needed something to do, not because of any serious appeal. The last few years has seen quite a few original shows close whilst a number of revivals appear which have less longevity, couple that with an unhealthy amount of jukebox shows which draw the dregs of the audience market and Theatreland's appeal dwindles.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2017 10:20:51 GMT
The amount of theatre availability cone Spring is what is making mw think we will see Broadway transfers occur, as well as some out of town shows to get them in whilst the real estate is there.
Groundhog, Waitress and Dear Evan Hansen have been circling the West End for a good while now. I wouldn't be surprised to see one of the three go to the Phoenix, another go to the Piccadilly following Annie too.
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5,062 posts
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Post by Phantom of London on Aug 31, 2017 10:35:40 GMT
Also you could add to that list Anastasia and Come From Away.
But they're only going to come over if they going to make dosh and earlier this year we had a lot of tourists come over due to the Brexit backlash and the weak pound, but that seems to have subsided now.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2017 10:48:50 GMT
With the exception of the Dear Evan Hansen, I don't think the 4 aforementioned musicals have enough hype about them in America to inject the needed life into the West End either individually or combined. I don't think Come From Away has the right appeal for a British market, and wasn't the response to Anastasia fairly flat? It'll be interesting to see what happens in London once Hamilton opens. Londons needed a big show with a massive following and impact for a while now and I can see the press attention Hamilton will cause bringing a bit of a kick to town.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2017 11:24:59 GMT
With the exception of the Dear Evan Hansen, I don't think the 4 aforementioned musicals have enough hype about them in America to inject the needed life into the West End either individually or combined. I don't think Come From Away has the right appeal for a British market, and wasn't the response to Anastasia fairly flat? It'll be interesting to see what happens in London once Hamilton opens. Londons needed a big show with a massive following and impact for a while now and I can see the press attention Hamilton will cause bringing a bit of a kick to town. Was Harry Potter not big enough though?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2017 11:57:20 GMT
Potter's arguably bigger than Hamilton. Once the latter moved to Broadway, it was fairly easy to get tickets for the first few months without resorting to touts or breaking the bank. I booked after opening night but before the Tonys and got good seats for under £100 with only five months notice. Potter though, that sold very well right off bat. And although Hamilton has sold very well right off bat for the London run, Potter is going to do the same on Broadway, so they're still not quite like-for-life. Potter still has the bigger name recognition and faster sell.
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2,778 posts
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Post by daniel on Aug 31, 2017 12:21:52 GMT
Not surprisingly I think there is an upsurge when a production is about to close, as I was hoping to catch Our Ladies in its final week but all the cheap deals had disappeared; however, I've certainly booked for almost nothing at my usual ATG venues this year (Richmond mainly, but sometimes Wimbledon and even Woking), solely due to - as I understand it from others here - their new policy of not offering members' discounts or deals. What were you hoping to book at Richmond/Wimbledon/Woking? I've seen plenty of members offers for all 3!
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3,578 posts
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Post by showgirl on Aug 31, 2017 13:04:08 GMT
Not surprisingly I think there is an upsurge when a production is about to close, as I was hoping to catch Our Ladies in its final week but all the cheap deals had disappeared; however, I've certainly booked for almost nothing at my usual ATG venues this year (Richmond mainly, but sometimes Wimbledon and even Woking), solely due to - as I understand it from others here - their new policy of not offering members' discounts or deals. What were you hoping to book at Richmond/Wimbledon/Woking? I've seen plenty of members offers for all 3! Intrigued and baffled by this, daniel, as I'm definitely on the email list for all ATG venues of interest to me but not only have I heard almost nothing from any of them this year apart from the usual "Book now" nudges; I've also found no deals when actively checking the website, e.g. by searching different dates and times just to see if the price varied - it didn't. If the only "concession" to members is lack of booking fee - which is no less than members would expect - I begin to doubt the value of being a member. I can't recall offhand all the productions which tempted me but one was The Wipers Times at Richmond, as I missed this in the West End and can't do the Guildford dates. So if you know of any offers, please do tell!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2017 13:54:47 GMT
With the exception of the Dear Evan Hansen, I don't think the 4 aforementioned musicals have enough hype about them in America to inject the needed life into the West End either individually or combined. I don't think Come From Away has the right appeal for a British market, and wasn't the response to Anastasia fairly flat? It'll be interesting to see what happens in London once Hamilton opens. Londons needed a big show with a massive following and impact for a while now and I can see the press attention Hamilton will cause bringing a bit of a kick to town. Was Harry Potter not big enough though? Fair point, I hadn't considered Potter. Having said that Potter is a different market to Hamilton in that its appeal is mostly to a set of fans already familiar with the brand. I haven't seen the show but I'd guess that the vast majority of people attending Harry Potter are going because they're devout HP fans, not because they're theatre fans. Whereas I think a lot of people who will end up at Hamilton are there because they've heard about it, caught its reputation and want to see what its about. Once the people who've gone to see Harry Potter at the Palace have seen the show, they're off the Harry Potter world at Warner Bros, not to Drury Lane to see 42 Street or Dreamgirls at the Savoy. Harry Potter could open anywhere in the country and run there doing (almost) the same on sales I think because the fans of Harry Potter globally will flock to any and all aspects of the brand.
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Post by daniel on Aug 31, 2017 14:21:00 GMT
What were you hoping to book at Richmond/Wimbledon/Woking? I've seen plenty of members offers for all 3! Intrigued and baffled by this, daniel, as I'm definitely on the email list for all ATG venues of interest to me but not only have I heard almost nothing from any of them this year apart from the usual "Book now" nudges; I've also found no deals when actively checking the website, e.g. by searching different dates and times just to see if the price varied - it didn't. If the only "concession" to members is lack of booking fee - which is no less than members would expect - I begin to doubt the value of being a member. I can't recall offhand all the productions which tempted me but one was The Wipers Times at Richmond, as I missed this in the West End and can't do the Guildford dates. So if you know of any offers, please do tell! in fairness showgirl I don't seem to get any offers via email either, I tend to just happen across them when looking. Wipers Times appears to be pretty rammed, but perhaps in general we're just looking at different shows!
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Post by forb4 on Aug 31, 2017 19:22:31 GMT
With the exception of the Dear Evan Hansen, I don't think the 4 aforementioned musicals have enough hype about them in America to inject the needed life into the West End either individually or combined. I don't think Come From Away has the right appeal for a British market, and wasn't the response to Anastasia fairly flat? It'll be interesting to see what happens in London once Hamilton opens. Londons needed a big show with a massive following and impact for a while now and I can see the press attention Hamilton will cause bringing a bit of a kick to town. Critically, the response to Anastasia was mixed but it's a big hit with the audiences
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2017 20:40:51 GMT
Also you could add to that list Anastasia and Come From Away. But they're only going to come over if they going to make dosh and earlier this year we had a lot of tourists come over due to the Brexit backlash and the weak pound, but that seems to have subsided now. Anastasia, yes I forgot to include that one. But I don't expect that one will come over for another year or two. Come From Away hasn't been planning anything as of yet, but its gonna be a bit of a tough sell in the UK.
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Post by Phantom of London on Aug 31, 2017 21:54:07 GMT
Disagree about Come From Away.
It was a harder sell in New York, as many people said they wouldn't attend the show, because the emotion was too raw, subsequently this has become a monster hit with every show sold out, the show has heart and that is what the audience love, you could also make the same argument for Hairspray which I saw tonight, people were saying this would flop when it came over in 2010 as the story doesn't resonate over here. Also there is no starring role in the piece, it is purely an ensemble piece and the set is sparse so would be cheap to put on, so could slot into a small theatre.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2017 21:59:00 GMT
Disagree about Come From Away. It was a harder sell in New York, as many people said they wouldn't attend the show, because the emotion was too raw, subsequently this has become a monster hit with every show sold out, the show has heart and that is what the audience love, you could also make the same argument for Hairspray which I saw tonight, people were saying this would flop when it came over in 2010 as the story doesn't resonate over here. Also there is no starring role in the piece, it is purely an ensemble piece and the set is sparse so would be cheap to put on, so could slot into a small theatre. Hmm... I'm personally not entirely convinced of its selling power over here. Not that I don't want it here, I'd love it to come over, I love the score. I actually think it would work better in a smaller space like a fringe venue. I couldn't see it lasting long in a West End house. The other issue is, yes it is very popular on Broadway, but I'm not so sure with this one that will translate over here. There hasn't been that much excitement or buzz over here for it. Whereas every theatre fan pretty much knows something like Dear Evan Hansen and something like Anastasia.
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Post by Rory on Aug 31, 2017 22:08:10 GMT
This has been a good summer for plays in the West End and the autumn lineup is very strong too. Some really interesting drama - Ink, Venus in Fur, Oslo, Labour of Love, Heisenberg, The Ferryman (extending), Apologia, even The Exorcist and A Woman of No Importance - something for everyone.
I remember around 8 years ago when loads of theatres were dark for months and the only plays that summer were The Female of the Species with Eileen Atkins at the Vaudeville and Under the Blue Sky by David Eldridge at the Duke of York's.
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Post by eatbigsea on Aug 31, 2017 22:24:27 GMT
Disagree about Come From Away. It was a harder sell in New York, as many people said they wouldn't attend the show, because the emotion was too raw, subsequently this has become a monster hit with every show sold out, the show has heart and that is what the audience love, you could also make the same argument for Hairspray which I saw tonight, people were saying this would flop when it came over in 2010 as the story doesn't resonate over here. Also there is no starring role in the piece, it is purely an ensemble piece and the set is sparse so would be cheap to put on, so could slot into a small theatre. I think Come From Away could work very well over here, if it was marketed properly. The music would resonate, and the story really works (it's not like terrorism isn't relevant, and the immediacy of New Yorkers' feelings wouldn't be present over here). I don't think it would matter that theatre people haven't made much buzz about it, as once you got a few audiences of ordinary punters in front of it, anyone could see its potential. Perhaps in Dublin first? Is that ever done? I think they would like it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2017 22:27:58 GMT
Like I said, I have my doubts, but I'd love to see it come over. Even if it only did a short run, I'd like to see it.
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Post by joem on Aug 31, 2017 22:33:21 GMT
Sorry but are there any figures to back this up or is this just an impression? The last figures I recall seeing showed record revenues and record ticket sales.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2017 22:44:43 GMT
Sorry but are there any figures to back this up or is this just an impression? The last figures I recall seeing showed record revenues and record ticket sales. Yeah you're right. And if you read back, I did say it is very popular on Broadway. I just have a little bit of doubt regarding if it would be as big a hit here. That's all. Just a feeling. I mean, I'd love to get out the books of revenue and ticket sales for the future years when it does open to show you, but sadly it's not possible as of yet.
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Post by Mr Snow on Sept 1, 2017 6:35:56 GMT
Sorry but are there any figures to back this up or is this just an impression? The last figures I recall seeing showed record revenues and record ticket sales. For more damming anecdotal evidence I was in Victoria last night and I'm sure there used to be another theatre right opposite the station. Well the builders are in and judging by the cover on the scaffold it's being developed into something called a Hamilton?
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