|
Post by d'James on Jul 16, 2017 10:36:10 GMT
Some people are going to be very disappointed later. Some if it's a man, and some if it's a woman.
I personally don't mind and will give anyone a chance. Jodie Whitaker isn't an obvious choice but I trust they know what they're doing, whoever they pick.
If they do go with a woman I wonder how much it will change the dynamic of the show. Some people seem to think it will affect it a lot, but I don't really see why it would that much. Another thing would be how interesting the viewership changes.
A lot of people on Twitter saying they hope it's a woman don't really seem to care about the show at all, and just want to make it a political argument. They yell and call people names who want the Doctor to remain male without listening to their arguments (some of which are probably nonsense). Calling people name's like 'snowflake' etc. is something I really hate though because it is an attempt to shut down and stifle discussion which pushes the feelings underground - and we all know how that can end up. As soon as people resort to that, I feel they lose credibility. By all means debate your point until the cows come home but avoid name calling.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2017 10:47:15 GMT
I've seen both sides of the argument. On the one hand there are people saying they'll never watch the show again if the Doctor is a woman, which smacks of bitterness and entitlement over a TV show, plus a little misogyny.
Conversely I've seen people, mainly on the Doctor Who forum Gallifrey Base, being very loudly and viciously anti-male, or anti-white male. Things like "if it's another STRAIGHT WHITE MALE it'll just show that systematic misogyny and racism has got the better of Doctor Who just like the rest of the world, please ANYONE BUT A WHITE MALE" which frankly I find to be abhorrent. I know it's socially acceptable to slate an entire social group provided it's one of the pre-approved ones, but the words "anyone but a black female" would get gasps of horror so I don't see why we're all piling on the white guy because we know there won't be a backlash. Well, maybe there's my answer.
At the end of the day, it's a TV show. It's not a reflection on the "state of TV" or the world, that there hasn't been a female Doctor. It's a TV show. Doctor Who could cast entirely people called Fred with pointy noses if they wanted to, the show operates in its own bubble and therefore they have no obligation to fulfil any self imposed quotas (although far flung future stories where everyone is of exactly the same ethnicity are a tad implausible). I think Jodie Whittaker would make a great Doctor, as would many of the other female names being thrown about. Above all, I hope that they cast the best person for the role. I have this awful feeling that 5 years from now Chris Chibnall will do an interview where he proudly boasts about how in casting this Doctor they deliberately ignored a specific group (whites/males etc.) and looks for appreciation of how tolerant he is. The best Doctor should be the best Doctor. Jodie Whittaker would be infinitely better than Kris Marshall, but female would not be infinitely better than male, just because we haven't had one yet.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2017 11:06:34 GMT
The places that I checked out on this sadly exhibit the bigoted minority in all their spittle flecked glory, vowing to do harm if there is a woman doctor, I'm talking of your reddits and chans here, a safe haven for the poisonous side of masculinity. Twitter is a relatively female positive space (and that's saying something, knowing just how badly women politicians, for example, are hounded!).
A good writer will want to bring a different dynamic; we've had the change from emotional to cerebral, from young to old recently, so one of Chibnall's best options is the change from male to female, otherwise he'll be going over old ground.
One male, not mentioned much, if at all, that I'd thought of was Johnny Flynn but I couldn't see what he might bring to the table that would be different. I wasn't sold on Olivia Colman or Phoebe Waller Bridge but Whittaker has a warmth and empathetic style that I think would work well, she can also do quirky, which is pretty much a given for the role.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2017 11:33:02 GMT
Here's the most prominent sweary Baynton tweet that was deleted since Friday
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2017 11:39:51 GMT
One male, not mentioned much, if at all, that I'd thought of was Johnny Flynn but I couldn't see what he might bring to the table that would be different. Perhaps a guitar?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2017 11:45:45 GMT
Here's the most prominent sweary Baynton tweet that was deleted since Friday How was it most prominent? Pinned to the top of the page?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2017 11:54:39 GMT
One male, not mentioned much, if at all, that I'd thought of was Johnny Flynn but I couldn't see what he might bring to the table that would be different. Perhaps a guitar? You really haven't been watching have you? Acoustic guitar, maybe.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2017 11:56:57 GMT
You really haven't been watching have you? No, I'm a grown-up now.
|
|
|
Post by d'James on Jul 16, 2017 12:04:09 GMT
@cardinalpirelli what have you seen Jodie Whitaker in that you know she can do quirky? I'm not doubting you, I've checked and I can't see that I've seen her in anything but Broadchurch.
|
|
1,127 posts
|
Post by samuelwhiskers on Jul 16, 2017 12:06:50 GMT
Not sure what that tweeter is on about, still loads of tweets containing swearing on Baynton's Twitter. Um I'm no detective-of- Moffat-fame but I think 'that tweeter' 's identity is fairly clear God sorry! I really didn't notice. Going back to GallifreyBase, that forum is notoriously 'old fashioned.' The handful of posts calling sexism are in response to a lot of very impassioned "THE DOCTOR MUST ALWAYS HAVE A PENIS" arguing (and some of the anti-female Doctor posts have been extremely misogynistic, eg claiming that sexism does not exist, sexism in the entertainment industry couldn't possibly exist, it's all bloody feminists whinging, etc. etc. etc.).
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2017 12:09:41 GMT
Um I'm no detective-of- Moffat-fame but I think 'that tweeter' 's identity is fairly clear God sorry! I really didn't notice. haha I was just amsued
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2017 12:09:42 GMT
Haha
You're right, there is still some swearing further down the timeline. But the one I posted a few posts back was one of his most recent tweets and was deleted between Friday and Saturday.
|
|
3,040 posts
|
Post by crowblack on Jul 16, 2017 12:23:07 GMT
what have you seen Jodie Whitaker in that you know she can do quirky? I can't remember her from anything else, either - she looks too 'everyday' in that, but maybe she has shown some interstellar quirk elsewhere? I thought Zawe Ashton or Tamsin Greig perhaps, if female? Or 'Philomena Cunk'.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2017 12:24:42 GMT
Oh GOD Tamsin Greig.
I'd need a lie down until Christmas for that.
|
|
|
Post by d'James on Jul 16, 2017 12:25:40 GMT
what have you seen Jodie Whitaker in that you know she can do quirky? I can't remember her from anything else, either - she looks too 'everyday' in that, but maybe she has shown some interstellar quirk elsewhere? I thought Zawe Ashton or Tamsin Greig perhaps, if female? Or 'Philomena Cunk'. Zawe Ashton would be good. Rebecca Front could be outstanding.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2017 12:42:36 GMT
Tasmin would be a good choice and you'd logically give her a younger male companion, there hasn't been a regular male companion since early to mid 1980's. John Barrowman's Captain Jack was more a special agent type character. Tasmin would have the gravitas to pull off the role but would she want commitment given the variety of roles she can now get and might they want to go younger again after Capaldi.
Zawe Ashton would be interesting and gives you a BAME Dr which people had been pushing for, if they had decided to go down that route then I'd have liked Richard Ayoade but he is doing Crystal Maze now which is a similar type character so that probably rules him out. Zawe would be my first choice personally if they went for a female Dr from the list of likely names.
Jodie Whittaker is well known but I'm not sure how quirky she'd be plus she seems to be in lots of other things so would she want to commit to 3 years plus on Dr Who based mainly in Cardiff - she has a young daughter and may want to expand her family so long filming schedules may not fit into that. There seems to be smart money for her so I think it may well be her.
Philomena Cunk/Diane Morgan would be a left field choice but less known actors have made good Drs. She'd be a good choice as an assistant IMO.
Kris Marshall has been mentioned a lot and if it is another bloke then I think he'd be a safe choice.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2017 12:44:30 GMT
Um I'm no detective-of- Moffat-fame but I think 'that tweeter' 's identity is fairly clear God sorry! I really didn't notice. Going back to GallifreyBase, that forum is notoriously 'old fashioned.' The handful of posts calling sexism are in response to a lot of very impassioned "THE DOCTOR MUST ALWAYS HAVE A PENIS" arguing (and some of the anti-female Doctor posts have been extremely misogynistic, eg claiming that sexism does not exist, sexism in the entertainment industry couldn't possibly exist, it's all bloody feminists whinging, etc. etc. etc.). I've been on the forum for about 2 years now and although I've seen the occasional comment, it does seem to be an anomaly and is usually followed with universal condemnation. After the airing of Thin Ice a few months ago, there was a thread where several hundred people were talking about whether or not it was acceptable to punch a racist person, and if anything the pro-social justice group had such a strong hold on the conversation that any suggestion that it's wrong to beat the sh*t out of a nasty person was treated as intense racism.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2017 12:48:01 GMT
@cardinalpirelli what have you seen Jodie Whitaker in that you know she can do quirky? I'm not doubting you, I've checked and I can't see that I've seen her in anything but Broadchurch. St Trinian's as the quirky secretary for a start, really grabbed hold of that one, plus films like Venus (acting opposite Pteter O'Toole and Leslie Phillips and holding her ground). Some actors who are good at comedy seem to get stuck in serious drama, Matthew McFadyen is another one, really, very funny but usually gets seen in very English polite roles.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2017 12:48:53 GMT
Oh Gallifery Base... I haven't been on there in SO many years. In some ways it's comforting to know things haven't changed.
|
|
1,127 posts
|
Post by samuelwhiskers on Jul 16, 2017 13:09:41 GMT
God sorry! I really didn't notice. Going back to GallifreyBase, that forum is notoriously 'old fashioned.' The handful of posts calling sexism are in response to a lot of very impassioned "THE DOCTOR MUST ALWAYS HAVE A PENIS" arguing (and some of the anti-female Doctor posts have been extremely misogynistic, eg claiming that sexism does not exist, sexism in the entertainment industry couldn't possibly exist, it's all bloody feminists whinging, etc. etc. etc.). I've been on the forum for about 2 years now and although I've seen the occasional comment, it does seem to be an anomaly and is usually followed with universal condemnation. After the airing of Thin Ice a few months ago, there was a thread where several hundred people were talking about whether or not it was acceptable to punch a racist person, and if anything the pro-social justice group had such a strong hold on the conversation that any suggestion that it's wrong to beat the sh*t out of a nasty person was treated as intense racism. I'm a very frequent poster there, have been for more than a decade, and that has not been my experience. Perhaps you have been fortunate about what parts of the forum you visit, but if you spend a lot of time there, the amount of misogyny and rage at anything "feminist" or "PC" is terrifying. Yes, there are a handful of posters willing to speak up against those comments, but the sheer amount of them is overwhelming sometimes. The 13th Doctor threads have been deleted and closed at least twice because of them, that wouldn't happen because if it was just the odd anomalous comment. Did you read the whole "sexism couldn't possibly exist in the entertainment industry" bunfight from a few days ago?
|
|
|
Post by d'James on Jul 16, 2017 13:09:45 GMT
@cardinalpirelli what have you seen Jodie Whitaker in that you know she can do quirky? I'm not doubting you, I've checked and I can't see that I've seen her in anything but Broadchurch. St Trinian's as the quirky secretary for a start, really grabbed hold of that one, plus films like Venus (acting opposite Pteter O'Toole and Leslie Phillips and holding her ground). Some actors who are good at comedy seem to get stuck in serious drama, Matthew McFadyen is another one, really, very funny but usually gets seen in very English polite roles. That's good to know. I'll be a bit underwhelmed if it's her because her character did my head in on Broadchurch but I will reserve judgment until I see her as the Doctor.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2017 13:30:45 GMT
There have been some PC and Racist undertones in episodes of Dr Who this year. I don't particularly agree with writers trying to push a PC agenda but the last series was my favourite since the reboot and I thought it was a great shame that Pearl's character has apparently left. This was a big break for her and she was given some good storylines.
I do wonder whether this might be as they are intending to bring in a female Dr.
I agree that Jodie was superb in Venus opposite the legendary Peter O'Toole in his last great role.
On a lighter note if they do have a female Dr then it might be the most contact that some of the nerdier fans will ever have with a woman!
|
|
2,452 posts
|
Post by theatremadness on Jul 16, 2017 14:18:41 GMT
Cilic calls a medical timeout.....needs a Doctor.....David Tennant is at Wimbledon.....IT'S ALL STARTING TO MAKE SENSE.
|
|
1,127 posts
|
Post by samuelwhiskers on Jul 16, 2017 14:55:12 GMT
Announcement minutes away!!
|
|
|
Post by d'James on Jul 16, 2017 15:28:09 GMT
Well as I said, underwhelmed, but will wait to see her in a few episodes.
|
|