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Post by n1david on Jul 11, 2017 8:08:15 GMT
While I have no objection to these parades I do feel more thought should be given to people who are trying to get somewhere to cross the route. I was trying to get to Wyndham's yesterday and thought the best way to cross would be to use the underground as a crossing but Piccadilly Circus was closed and I had to walk quite a bit further than I needed to down to Charing Cross at Trafalgar Square where I was able to cross. I got there with 5 minutes to spare. I suppose it's my own fault for not taking more notice of the times and route but when you don't live in London you don't always realise how these things are going to affect you. There were plenty of "crossing places" but these couldn't be used once the parade was in place. Why can't the parade be stopped occasionally to allow people to cross the road? I think you were unlucky in where you were trying - I was watching the parade in Regent St just next to a crossing point and it was reopened every few minutes to let people cross. Part of the problem is the parade is now five hours long, so stopping it frequently at crossing points makes it even more unwieldy than it is at the moment. But ultimately it's at the discretion of the local steward. One idea worth thinking about is to sign up for TfL weekly emails, even if you're infrequently in London - these are issued every Thursday and explain where there are major roadworks or events that affect the Streets as well as the Roads - it's very useful about drawing my attention to things I wouldn't otherwise be aware of which clog up Central London, like demos or religious events that I wouldn't have noticed otherwise. tfl.gov.uk/travel-information/social-media-and-email-updates/As for Pride itself, well I had a ball but like some others I miss the affinity groups and got a bit bored by the company groups. However, many of the affinity groups that marched in the 80s and 90s no longer exist as people no longer need to be part of a Gay Accountants group or a Gay Christians group - they are still gay accountants or gay christians but are just who they are in their place of work rather than needing to connect outside of their workplaces. I also think five hours is a bit excessive for that march - when I had to leave to meet someone it was about the 4-hour mark and the crowds were already dwindling, which is a shame for those at the end. Maybe fewer floats would make a difference. |
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Post by infofreako on Jul 11, 2017 8:24:10 GMT
Im intrigued by this 5 hours parade length, being involved with organising processions myself.
We usually refer to the length of our processions as the time it takes to pass any given spot, for example outside a specific spot in Regent Street. Is that the case here or is the 5 hours from when it sets off to when it reaches its end point.
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Post by n1david on Jul 11, 2017 8:37:29 GMT
Im intrigued by this 5 hours parade length, being involved with organising processions myself. We usually refer to the length of our processions as the time it takes to pass any given spot, for example outside a specific spot in Regent Street. Is that the case here or is the 5 hours from when it sets off to when it reaches its end point. That is five hours to pass a particular point. The route is only 1.4 miles so I expect the entire route is filled for most of the time. |
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Post by d'James on Jul 11, 2017 19:17:36 GMT
I do think Pride is an odd one. As with all gay events/bars/clubs/whatever it is extremely intimidating. It's a celebration for some but not all. I can only speak for myself as a gay man, so please don't read what I say and assume I'm ignoring the LBTQ people; I just don't want to speak on behalf of any other section of society of which I have no personal experience. I went to Pride last year and there was so much mocking of certain body types etc. It's meant to be an inclusive day but it feels anything but. Good for you if you're on a float or a bus or have learnt a dance routine for the occasion, but how are you reaching out to the scared teenager behind the physical barrier between you? Aimlessly throwing famously-branded products superimposed on a rainbow flag is utterly pointless. Pride is meant to be a celebration and there will be people who benefit from it, no doubt. I just think it needs to be refocused to encourage people who are scared/intimidated by it. I think the gay 'community' (it feels less like an actual community than ever before) needs to have a long hard look at itself. There are tonnes of gay teenagers who will see highlights of Pride on telly and not see themselves represented (by the flamboyant costumes and showing off) and feel more and more isolated. If people are fully secure in their sexuality then that's brilliant and we should celebrate it, but because we are in such a fortunate position we should use it to help those who are not (as with most things in life). Pride is one day a year, but there is still so much not to be proud of; we need to focus on that, 365 days a year. Great post and I am not going to challenge it, as it feels it comes from a personal perspective. However I would like to offer, doing nothing will not change the other 365 days of the year, doing something might and having an event like PRIDE and I take on board it's very flamboyant, so not everyone cup of teas, but an event like this will challenge and hopefully change peoples' perspective, so that will help the 'scared teenager' in his bedroom, not directly, also this could help him/her to engage in 'help'*, by what I mean speak to a responsible person or may offer solutions to his/her fear. The PRIDE website can and should address this, as no doubt, many gay and lesbians have been in the same confused and scared boat. *Help I mean for his fear, not his/her sexuality. I haven't had time to answer to this until now. Sorry for resurrecting it. I agree for the most part. I have never really seen how Pride would change many people's opinions and thereby help he scared kids. They changed it to London Pride to show that it was open to everyone, which may encourage Allies but they probably already were allies but didn't feel it was for them to attend. I probably read this on here, but I agree with Peter Tatchell, which I certainly don't always: www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/06/marched-pride-london-since-1972-liberatingI feel that a lot of people do use it as a party and don't think any further. It also isn't just one day it becomes a weekend which can become a week of partying and self-congratulating (for the companies and individuals (which is fine by the way)). Anyway, I can't write down all my thoughts or I'd be here all night and I think I've already gone a bit off track. I just wish that there was a way that we could get more people who get on a float paid for by their bosses were also encouraged to engage with the LGBT community in their local areas, particularly in schools (some Faith schools might be a spanner in the works). I'm not saying none of them does but I would like to see more. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2017 19:29:22 GMT
I hadn't seen that from Tatchell and I agree too (And don't always haha!) I agree with you in all the things you say but I think Tatchell makes a valid point bringing up Pride from other places. From what I know about even the UK, a lot of the smaller cities Pride's are still much more 'grass roots' (Cardiff's is certainly a bit erm rough and ready) and in terms of those marching, etc it's more about community groups getting together. In Cardiff too it's always felt much more 'family friendly' (I LOATHE that term but it does teh job here) as it's in a field, and basically people from all sorts of backgrounds go, hang out, watch entertainment etc. So Pride is different in different places. Except for the fact yes, it does end up with a lot of people getting pissed in a club.
I also was talking with a friend on FB last week about the commerial cashing in-for example Tesco had ads with two men, for Pride. Well Tesco why don't you just do that the rest of the year as a matter of course? and/or make sure you practice what you preach in terms of making sure employees feel they can be 'out' at work if they wish etc. So there's lots of les desirable undertones.
I was happy to hear from a friend that where he stood at least Sadiq Khan got a far louder cheer than Mr Tom Daley!
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Post by Phantom of London on Jul 11, 2017 20:03:18 GMT
My organisation actively supports London Pride, by having the famous London Unerground roundel sign in Pride colours.
I agree that schools/collages/Universities should employ a counsellor to resolve personal issues such as bullying, sexuality and problematic home environment - such as divorce alcohol/drug abuse, sexual abuse etc. These appointment are part of a support process that is confidential and doesn't follow a religious doctrine and the sole focus is on the pupils welfare. If this doesn't happen already. Anything that allows students perform to the best of their ability in an education environment.
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Post by d'James on Jul 11, 2017 20:27:43 GMT
I would like it if teachers would set up LGBT societies in schools (I'm sure some do). I know it wouldn't be universally popular with parents (or Daily Mail readers) but it wouldn't be obligatory. I'd also love it if it was a straight teacher than led it or at least co-led it with an LGBT teacher. This way, students that were struggling would have a teacher to approach (not necessarily at the society meetings) but after school or during break. It would also be very easy to incorporate different aspects of other school subjects into the society (the most obvious example being LGBT History). To bring it back to the topic, the schools could then be involved in organising local Prides. I'll stop as I'll probably go off-topic again.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2017 21:16:35 GMT
I've never been to London Pride but I've been to the majority of B'ham Prides over the last 20 odd years. As a straight guy, I've never felt out of place or intimidated by certain body type perceptions that have been mentioned above. Sure there are a lot of guys in shorts and spandex and the parade will always feature the more extrovert, outrageous costumes but I've always seen a wide range of ages, shapes, sizes etc.
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Post by infofreako on Jul 11, 2017 21:31:49 GMT
I've never been to London Pride but I've been to the majority of B'ham Prides over the last 20 odd years. As a straight guy, I've never felt out of place or intimidated by certain body type perceptions that have been mentioned above. Sure there are a lot of guys in shorts and spandex and the parade will always feature the more extrovert, outrageous costumes but I've always seen a wide range of ages, shapes, sizes etc. I feel the same with Brighton Pride, dont feel out of place at all |
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Post by Phantom of London on Jul 11, 2017 22:05:58 GMT
Someone said earlier the Daily Mail readers and let me say Andrew Pierce their associate editor is gay,mother than that he is an arsehole, I point that out as proof that attitudes are shifting and I firmly believe that if a top flight footballer did come out, it wouldn't be a problem and the person would get a lot of support from the media and fans.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2017 23:12:31 GMT
Rugby players have come out and their sport is way harder and more masculine than football
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Post by oxfordsimon on Jul 12, 2017 0:41:50 GMT
Rugby players have come out and their sport is way harder and more masculine than football But also less well paid - the money that swills around football is obscene and is clearly used to control players beyond anything that is reasonable. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2017 8:01:11 GMT
I would like it if teachers would set up LGBT societies in schools (I'm sure some do). I know it wouldn't be universally popular with parents (or Daily Mail readers) but it wouldn't be obligatory. I'd also love it if it was a straight teacher than led it or at least co-led it with an LGBT teacher. This way, students that were struggling would have a teacher to approach (not necessarily at the society meetings) but after school or during break. It would also be very easy to incorporate different aspects of other school subjects into the society (the most obvious example being LGBT History). To bring it back to the topic, the schools could then be involved in organising local Prides. I'll stop as I'll probably go off-topic again. Firstly, all the points you're making are really interesting and provoking interesting discussion so please don't stop (unless you want to!).
I totally agree, sadly though there's a massive hangover from Section 28 in schools too (particularly in older teachers) where there's still a feeling that this sort of stuff isn't 'allowed' obviously the more younger teachers come through, the better it's getting. But in terms of the speed education moves, it's barely been any time since Section 28 was repealed, so it's so tricky. BUT thankfully being inclusive and responding to diversity is a part of training for new teachers, so slowly things will change. But fighting the old guard within a school isn't easy. But I have faith in the fantastic younger teachers that they'll get there.
More LGBT+ groups in general are needed for young people I think, as many have to wait until University (if they go) to find that sort of thing. Though while we're at it LGBT+ groups for older people who don't do the club/bar scene any more and are at risk of feeling really isolated and alone are also a much needed thing.
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Post by infofreako on Jul 12, 2017 8:10:13 GMT
One of my daughters friends is gay and autistic. As a result he really struggles to integrate with anyone at all and none of the groups locally will help him now because he is too childish/too over the top and as a result he has become really isolated. 25 and no social life to speak of and nobody really fighting his corner.
We are taking him to pride in Brighton this year as last year he ended up sat on his own all day
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2017 8:24:47 GMT
Oh that's lovely of you infofreako it's obviously an issue across all kinds of 'groups' that those a bit 'different' fail to be accepted. Not exactly in the same vein but a 'rival' choir conductor of my choir set up a Lesbian choir as she (rightly) noted that there weren't as many as say Gay Men's Chorus. However WE promptly noted that we had more LGBT women in out non-gay choir than she was currently recruiting (and when we're feeling bitchy, with better voices). So sometimes these things work sometimes they don't |
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Post by infofreako on Jul 18, 2017 18:06:46 GMT
Rail strike confirmed for August 4th by Southern Fail on board supervisors/ticket inspectors/whatever we are calling them today.
This is the eve of Brighton Pride. If travelling from London allow extra time
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