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Post by anthony40 on Jul 9, 2017 12:26:41 GMT
it didn't cross my that Pride could become a potential target for hate groups, so great nothing negative or u towards on the news today. It crosses my my mind every time. Whilst I think it's great that attitude have changed so much and that so much progress has been made and that (generally speaking) so much positive progress has been made on all levels, the reality is that for a certain demographic the concept of homosexuality is completely abhorrent and unacceptable. Whilst I personally don't have a problem with it, their negative opinions tap into their upbringing, morals and values and whilst they may be in the minority, their opinions have to be respected. So, given the society we live in now with the ever-threat of terrorism, whilst people with these opinions are around, the threat is ever present and real. Speaking from personal experience, my Father is one of these people and quite frankly, regardless how much logic is used, his attitude will never change. And this attitude will die with him, despite the fact that one of his cousins is in a lesbian relationship, the fact that his cousin's daughter is a lesbian and that my cousin's son is bisexual. Not that I'm suggesting that Dad would every do such a thing, but he makes snipe and underhanded comments all the time. And you're going to always have religious zealots pontificating, who's options too should be respected. So, given this, thank God that it all wen't off well as it was intended so it was safe for all those taking part in the parade and for those watching.
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Post by Phantom of London on Jul 9, 2017 15:49:36 GMT
I sadly agree, there is a certain demographic you will not change, we know that type of little England UKIP type. However a lot of this is driven by religion and something in the Old Testament (Leviticus), but those homophobic religion types still eat shellfish!!! This hatred isn't just driven by Christianality by other religions too, thankfully I am a atheist. You look at the excellent Angels in America, where AIDS and sexuality is at the forefront of the play, but also something much sinister lurks for a couple of the actors Nathan Lane and Russell Tovey or where both were shunned by their fathers because both being gay.
Likewise as commented on the INK thread the Sun newspaper used to specialise door stepping celebrities and outing them, one of these was the late Nigel Hawthorne and it did incalculable damage to his relationship with his family, another was BIll Buckley an ex talk show host on LBC and one of the presenters on That's Life who got outed, this resulted in both parents never speaking to him again, thankfully when he was on air he got a letter from a cousin, that she and another cousin didn't have issues and we're happy to reunite. That, Hillsborough and hacking a dead child's phone, I got no time for that paper.
But great strides are being made look at football and how that has moved on. Brian Clough and his underhanded and abhorrent way he treated Justin Fashanu, which partly lead to his suicide and when there was a black player such as the great John Barnes people used to throw bananas at him, thankfully that doesn't happen today and many people in same sex relationships feel comfortable and accepted at a match, Iain Dale LBC broadcaster often says he feels it's not a problem going to West Ham with his husband. It won't be long before footballers will come out and people and fans will just take it in their stride.
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Post by moelhywel on Jul 9, 2017 15:53:30 GMT
While I have no objection to these parades I do feel more thought should be given to people who are trying to get somewhere to cross the route. I was trying to get to Wyndham's yesterday and thought the best way to cross would be to use the underground as a crossing but Piccadilly Circus was closed and I had to walk quite a bit further than I needed to down to Charing Cross at Trafalgar Square where I was able to cross. I got there with 5 minutes to spare. I suppose it's my own fault for not taking more notice of the times and route but when you don't live in London you don't always realise how these things are going to affect you. There were plenty of "crossing places" but these couldn't be used once the parade was in place. Why can't the parade be stopped occasionally to allow people to cross the road?
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Post by alece10 on Jul 9, 2017 16:56:44 GMT
Ive never done Pride before mainly because I don't really like huge crowds, but on Saturday was in the west end with family to see a couple of shows. We had to get from the Adelphi to the Palladium so I decided to keep away from Trafalgar Square and Regent Street, the route of the parade. We walked up to Covent Garden and then........ God knows what possessed me to think this was the best way.... decided that it would be best to "cut through" Soho!!!! Dear God. At one point I thought we were going to die. Couldn't go left, couldn't go right, couldn't go across. Plus I am trying to lead 2 people from Cornwall who don't know London and if we had got split up they would have no idea where they were. Anyway after wading through streets full of bottles, glasses, and a ton of rubbish managed to get to the Palladium. Now I realised why I don't do Pride. I think they were shocked (in a nice way) as you don't see a lot of LGBT people partying in the streets of a sleepy Cornish village. Best comment we heard of the afternoon... Police car went past all painted up with rainbow flag and Pride on it. 2 guys walked past us and said "Oh look, the police car has been gayed up!" - Hysterical.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2017 17:02:33 GMT
haha oh dear that reminds me of about 10 years ago, when I still lived in London I met an old school friend and two of her friends who were down for a conference or some such, in Covent Garden. The others were from The Valleys (capital needed) and didn't generally leave there much. When I was leaving they asked if I had far to go or similar. I commented "Oh no I'll just cut through Soho it won't take long" to which one replied "Soho is that...where the GAYS are?"
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Post by Phantom of London on Jul 9, 2017 18:35:06 GMT
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Post by oxfordsimon on Jul 9, 2017 19:27:59 GMT
There's lots of positive things I could say, but my major gripe with this was how it felt like 90% of parade sections were multi-national companies. I want to see all the people, all the communities, projects, not CitiGroup. I can understand that. However the costs for the events this year come to £900k. I would much rather have sponsors than make people pay to attend. The parade lasted five hours. Yes there were a lot of businesses there but all represented by their workforce who were there because they wanted to celebrate their Pride and their journeys. There were also many, many communities represented. 26500 people paraded over those 5 hours. All credit to those people and the volunteers who were involved in ensuring the parade firmed up correctly and those on the route who had to contend with all that!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2017 21:15:44 GMT
Likewise as commented on the INK thread the Sun newspaper used to specialise door stepping celebrities and outing them, one of these was the late Nigel Hawthorne and it did incalculable damage to his relationship with his family, another was BIll Buckley an ex talk show host on LBC and one of the presenters on That's Life who got outed, this resulted in both parents never speaking to him again, thankfully when he was on air he got a letter from a cousin, that she and another cousin didn't have issues and we're happy to reunite. That, Hillsborough and hacking a dead child's phone, I got no time for that paper. But great strides are being made look at football and how that has moved on. Brian Clough and his underhanded and abhorrent way he treated Justin Fashanu, which partly lead to his suicide and when there was a black player such as the great John Barnes people used to throw bananas at him, thankfully that doesn't happen today and many people in same sex relationships feel comfortable and accepted at a match, Iain Dale LBC broadcaster often says he feels it's not a problem going to West Ham with his husband. It won't be long before footballers will come out and people and fans will just take it in their stride. Footballers are still afraid to come out. Thankfully the game has moved on from the John Barnes era which was only 30 years ago - the Liverpool vs Everton game stands out in my mind! It was a great pity that Fashanu hadn't come out and Cloughie had backed him, that would have gone a huge way to breaking down barriers. John Fashanu has admitted he had difficulty dealing with the issue when Justin came out but has since resolved those issues with himself. One of the tabloids outed the late Gorden Kaye too! I always take the view that someones sexual preference is their own business, if they wish to talk about it then that is their business. At worse it could cause a little embarrassment if someone tried to fix them up with someone of the gender they weren't attracted to. Someone I work with came up with a priceless quote a few weeks back "John Barrowman - did you know he was gay?" She hasn't lived it down since, every famous most out there gay man has been substituted into John's place. A lot of younger colleagues have gained a knowledge of Quentin Crisp because of it.
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Post by d'James on Jul 10, 2017 2:07:24 GMT
I do think Pride is an odd one. As with all gay events/bars/clubs/whatever it is extremely intimidating. It's a celebration for some but not all.
I can only speak for myself as a gay man, so please don't read what I say and assume I'm ignoring the LBTQ people; I just don't want to speak on behalf of any other section of society of which I have no personal experience.
I went to Pride last year and there was so much mocking of certain body types etc. It's meant to be an inclusive day but it feels anything but. Good for you if you're on a float or a bus or have learnt a dance routine for the occasion, but how are you reaching out to the scared teenager behind the physical barrier between you? Aimlessly throwing famously-branded products superimposed on a rainbow flag is utterly pointless.
Pride is meant to be a celebration and there will be people who benefit from it, no doubt. I just think it needs to be refocused to encourage people who are scared/intimidated by it.
I think the gay 'community' (it feels less like an actual community than ever before) needs to have a long hard look at itself. There are tonnes of gay teenagers who will see highlights of Pride on telly and not see themselves represented (by the flamboyant costumes and showing off) and feel more and more isolated. If people are fully secure in their sexuality then that's brilliant and we should celebrate it, but because we are in such a fortunate position we should use it to help those who are not (as with most things in life).
Pride is one day a year, but there is still so much not to be proud of; we need to focus on that, 365 days a year.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2017 7:48:05 GMT
Well said d'James I have similar conversations with friends from the 'community' (because again DO we have a community any more...) every year. As a bisexual woman, I feel excluded often or as if I have to pretend to be something I'm not to be accepted. Bisexual friends who've married/settled down with someone of the opposite gender feel like their choice of partner means they're not welcome/not Queer enough any more etc. The community is fraught with problems. For both men and women as well there's so much hang up about looks- too 'girly' not 'girly' enough, not 'fit' or 'buff' enough the list goes on. And as a shy introvert who loathes a party other than watching a parade (which I do enjoy) Pride does little for me personally. BUT I do love how strong a message particularly London Pride being such a huge event sends to the wider world. And it's place in history etc. Monday morning rant over...
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Post by vdcni on Jul 10, 2017 7:50:49 GMT
I didn't go to the parade as we were meeting friends and personally apart from when I've walked in it I find the parade a chore to watch though London is at least a lot better then Sydney or San Francisco which are endless and utterly dull. Though five hours sounds longer than it used to be!?
I actually think London is one of the more democratic pride Celebrations of the big cities. In the old days the park events catered to a range of music and community tents and now the party in the street - if you can cope with the crowds - is open to all and basically every bar, coffee shop, restaurant and pub in the surrounding streets becomes a venue. Compared to the Sydney - giant party costing a fortune with four different arenas, everyone playing the same music and topless muscle boys everywhere you go. London at least you can lurk on the sidelines and work up the courage to join in without much risk. San Francisco is similar though slightly better as the Castro is better suited to have people partying in the streets - I went there on my own one year as an under confident guy in my early 20's and ended up being cheered by the crowd as I had a three way snog in the middle of the street!
Interestingly my Husband, who is Australian, made a point of how much more friendly officialdom is in London compared to Sydney. He was pleasantly surprised that the para medics and particularly the Police had rainbow flags on their faces and uniforms - thought this wouldn't happen in Australia where the police have a much worse record with the gay community.
Yes it could be more inclusive though personally I feel the gay community is better than it used to be with body types, ok that's partly because we've started fetishizing more body types than just muscle but it has moved on from the 1990's when it was a much bigger problem.
The media may focus on the flamboyant costumes but there are plenty of people there that aren't like that. I had a good view of the whole of Old Compton Street and the whole of human life was there and people walking in the parade are from a variety of backgrounds, shapes, ages and sizes. I don't know how you get the media to cover that in the two minutes on the TV news or one column in the newspaper it normally gets.
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Post by vdcni on Jul 10, 2017 8:08:40 GMT
Well said d 'James I have similar conversations with friends from the 'community' (because again DO we have a community any more...) every year. As a bisexual woman, I feel excluded often or as if I have to pretend to be something I'm not to be accepted. Bisexual friends who've married/settled down with someone of the opposite gender feel like their choice of partner means they're not welcome/not Queer enough any more etc. The community is fraught with problems. For both men and women as well there's so much hang up about looks- too 'girly' not 'girly' enough, not 'fit' or 'buff' enough the list goes on. And as a shy introvert who loathes a party other than watching a parade (which I do enjoy) Pride does little for me personally. BUT I do love how strong a message particularly London Pride being such a huge event sends to the wider world. And it's place in history etc. Monday morning rant over... Fair point and I've always felt women in particular get a bad deal from Pride - the Parade is usually ok but they are certainly outnumbered in the Soho part of the celebration but then Soho has always been a very male environment. One thing I forgot to mention was my highlight of the day was being in the middle of Old Compton Street when they dropped a giant load of balloons and inflatable balls onto the crowd as part of a promotion by Clone Zone (gay fashion/sex shop). The simple joy & celebration from the crowd from merely knocking them into the air was fun to be part of.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2017 8:13:47 GMT
haha that bit sounds awesome (even if I am scared of balloons...yes it's weird...)
And yeah, Soho has never felt like a male space. There's what 2 'Lesbian bars' not that I personally feel we need segregated bars/spaces but just that it can sometimes feel SO male oriented elsewhere. Also there's the problem of women not being allowed in 'gay bars' for 'not looking gay' (ie Butch in the case of girls) doesn't happen often but it happens....
ANYWAY that really is the end of my rant (for now)
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Post by vdcni on Jul 10, 2017 8:26:49 GMT
Are there even two lesbian bars anymore? Candy Bar is gone, I don't know of any others though I don't tend to go to Soho much myself these days. If I go to a gay bar in London it's the Retro Bar which has always been much more inclusive.
Interestingly enough a lesbian friend of mine used to have problems with lesbian bars - not for how she looked (though she's as far from butch as it is possible to be) but because most of her friends were gay men rather than women. One year at Manchester Mardi Gras she was bored of trailing round the male dominated gay bars with us and wanted to go to the lesbian bar, but didn't want to go in on her own, but when the group of us tried to go in they said only one man could go in with one woman. I completely understand why they did this but it made it hard for her as she felt bad about splitting the group up as only I went in and the rest went somewhere else. Same problem in London so that curtailed her social life a bit until she had a decent group of female friends.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2017 8:31:49 GMT
ooh you know I've no idea! I personally hate bars/clubs but I do know that the ones in Cardiff are generally more 'inclusive' and laid back. But it's a frustrating state of affairs in general I think. I'll stick to being a hermit
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Post by vdcni on Jul 10, 2017 9:00:14 GMT
I don't really know the Cardiff scene that well even though my Dad lives in Pencoed near Bridegend. London does better at catering to niches - it was great for me as a gay indie kid in the late 90's - but smaller cities tend to do better at generalist places that everyone can have a decent time in even if it isn't completely to their taste.
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Post by anita on Jul 10, 2017 9:38:27 GMT
On Saturday while walking through London on my way to the Palladium I fell in love with a pair of very skimpy shorts. They were striped, all the colours of the rainbow & totally sequins. How I wished I could turn back time to my days of wearing "hot pants" but even when I was young & thin I don't think I would have have fitted into them - the young man wearing them was so skinny. I'm not gay but they were absolutely gorgeous.
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Post by wickedgrin on Jul 10, 2017 9:54:35 GMT
ANYWAY that really is the end of my rant (for now) Oh keep ranting! Don't even get me started!
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Post by Phantom of London on Jul 10, 2017 19:08:46 GMT
I do think Pride is an odd one. As with all gay events/bars/clubs/whatever it is extremely intimidating. It's a celebration for some but not all. I can only speak for myself as a gay man, so please don't read what I say and assume I'm ignoring the LBTQ people; I just don't want to speak on behalf of any other section of society of which I have no personal experience. I went to Pride last year and there was so much mocking of certain body types etc. It's meant to be an inclusive day but it feels anything but. Good for you if you're on a float or a bus or have learnt a dance routine for the occasion, but how are you reaching out to the scared teenager behind the physical barrier between you? Aimlessly throwing famously-branded products superimposed on a rainbow flag is utterly pointless. Pride is meant to be a celebration and there will be people who benefit from it, no doubt. I just think it needs to be refocused to encourage people who are scared/intimidated by it. I think the gay 'community' (it feels less like an actual community than ever before) needs to have a long hard look at itself. There are tonnes of gay teenagers who will see highlights of Pride on telly and not see themselves represented (by the flamboyant costumes and showing off) and feel more and more isolated. If people are fully secure in their sexuality then that's brilliant and we should celebrate it, but because we are in such a fortunate position we should use it to help those who are not (as with most things in life). Pride is one day a year, but there is still so much not to be proud of; we need to focus on that, 365 days a year. Great post and I am not going to challenge it, as it feels it comes from a personal perspective. However I would like to offer, doing nothing will not change the other 365 days of the year, doing something might and having an event like PRIDE and I take on board it's very flamboyant, so not everyone cup of teas, but an event like this will challenge and hopefully change peoples' perspective, so that will help the 'scared teenager' in his bedroom, not directly, also this could help him/her to engage in 'help'*, by what I mean speak to a responsible person or may offer solutions to his/her fear. The PRIDE website can and should address this, as no doubt, many gay and lesbians have been in the same confused and scared boat. *Help I mean for his fear, not his/her sexuality.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2017 7:48:07 GMT
I think Phantom is right- Pride itself isn't everyone's cup of tea but it's very existence is still very important I think for all the knock-on effects. From it simply being on TV/in the news/social media it both shows bigots that the community will not be silenced by them, and it allows that scared person (young or otherwise) to see there are people like them and like you say maybe find a website, talk to someone etc.
Let's not forget Pride began as a protest and there's still a political element both for the history of that and to stand in solidarity with those who still need the political element. It's sometimes hard to see under the glitter (and Tom Daley in wings!!) but that's important too.
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Post by n1david on Jul 11, 2017 8:08:15 GMT
While I have no objection to these parades I do feel more thought should be given to people who are trying to get somewhere to cross the route. I was trying to get to Wyndham's yesterday and thought the best way to cross would be to use the underground as a crossing but Piccadilly Circus was closed and I had to walk quite a bit further than I needed to down to Charing Cross at Trafalgar Square where I was able to cross. I got there with 5 minutes to spare. I suppose it's my own fault for not taking more notice of the times and route but when you don't live in London you don't always realise how these things are going to affect you. There were plenty of "crossing places" but these couldn't be used once the parade was in place. Why can't the parade be stopped occasionally to allow people to cross the road? I think you were unlucky in where you were trying - I was watching the parade in Regent St just next to a crossing point and it was reopened every few minutes to let people cross. Part of the problem is the parade is now five hours long, so stopping it frequently at crossing points makes it even more unwieldy than it is at the moment. But ultimately it's at the discretion of the local steward. One idea worth thinking about is to sign up for TfL weekly emails, even if you're infrequently in London - these are issued every Thursday and explain where there are major roadworks or events that affect the Streets as well as the Roads - it's very useful about drawing my attention to things I wouldn't otherwise be aware of which clog up Central London, like demos or religious events that I wouldn't have noticed otherwise. tfl.gov.uk/travel-information/social-media-and-email-updates/As for Pride itself, well I had a ball but like some others I miss the affinity groups and got a bit bored by the company groups. However, many of the affinity groups that marched in the 80s and 90s no longer exist as people no longer need to be part of a Gay Accountants group or a Gay Christians group - they are still gay accountants or gay christians but are just who they are in their place of work rather than needing to connect outside of their workplaces. I also think five hours is a bit excessive for that march - when I had to leave to meet someone it was about the 4-hour mark and the crowds were already dwindling, which is a shame for those at the end. Maybe fewer floats would make a difference.
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Post by infofreako on Jul 11, 2017 8:24:10 GMT
Im intrigued by this 5 hours parade length, being involved with organising processions myself. We usually refer to the length of our processions as the time it takes to pass any given spot, for example outside a specific spot in Regent Street. Is that the case here or is the 5 hours from when it sets off to when it reaches its end point.
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Post by n1david on Jul 11, 2017 8:37:29 GMT
Im intrigued by this 5 hours parade length, being involved with organising processions myself. We usually refer to the length of our processions as the time it takes to pass any given spot, for example outside a specific spot in Regent Street. Is that the case here or is the 5 hours from when it sets off to when it reaches its end point. That is five hours to pass a particular point. The route is only 1.4 miles so I expect the entire route is filled for most of the time.
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Post by d'James on Jul 11, 2017 19:17:36 GMT
I do think Pride is an odd one. As with all gay events/bars/clubs/whatever it is extremely intimidating. It's a celebration for some but not all. I can only speak for myself as a gay man, so please don't read what I say and assume I'm ignoring the LBTQ people; I just don't want to speak on behalf of any other section of society of which I have no personal experience. I went to Pride last year and there was so much mocking of certain body types etc. It's meant to be an inclusive day but it feels anything but. Good for you if you're on a float or a bus or have learnt a dance routine for the occasion, but how are you reaching out to the scared teenager behind the physical barrier between you? Aimlessly throwing famously-branded products superimposed on a rainbow flag is utterly pointless. Pride is meant to be a celebration and there will be people who benefit from it, no doubt. I just think it needs to be refocused to encourage people who are scared/intimidated by it. I think the gay 'community' (it feels less like an actual community than ever before) needs to have a long hard look at itself. There are tonnes of gay teenagers who will see highlights of Pride on telly and not see themselves represented (by the flamboyant costumes and showing off) and feel more and more isolated. If people are fully secure in their sexuality then that's brilliant and we should celebrate it, but because we are in such a fortunate position we should use it to help those who are not (as with most things in life). Pride is one day a year, but there is still so much not to be proud of; we need to focus on that, 365 days a year. Great post and I am not going to challenge it, as it feels it comes from a personal perspective. However I would like to offer, doing nothing will not change the other 365 days of the year, doing something might and having an event like PRIDE and I take on board it's very flamboyant, so not everyone cup of teas, but an event like this will challenge and hopefully change peoples' perspective, so that will help the 'scared teenager' in his bedroom, not directly, also this could help him/her to engage in 'help'*, by what I mean speak to a responsible person or may offer solutions to his/her fear. The PRIDE website can and should address this, as no doubt, many gay and lesbians have been in the same confused and scared boat. *Help I mean for his fear, not his/her sexuality. I haven't had time to answer to this until now. Sorry for resurrecting it. I agree for the most part. I have never really seen how Pride would change many people's opinions and thereby help he scared kids. They changed it to London Pride to show that it was open to everyone, which may encourage Allies but they probably already were allies but didn't feel it was for them to attend. I probably read this on here, but I agree with Peter Tatchell, which I certainly don't always: www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/06/marched-pride-london-since-1972-liberatingI feel that a lot of people do use it as a party and don't think any further. It also isn't just one day it becomes a weekend which can become a week of partying and self-congratulating (for the companies and individuals (which is fine by the way)). Anyway, I can't write down all my thoughts or I'd be here all night and I think I've already gone a bit off track. I just wish that there was a way that we could get more people who get on a float paid for by their bosses were also encouraged to engage with the LGBT community in their local areas, particularly in schools (some Faith schools might be a spanner in the works). I'm not saying none of them does but I would like to see more.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2017 19:29:22 GMT
I hadn't seen that from Tatchell and I agree too (And don't always haha!) I agree with you in all the things you say but I think Tatchell makes a valid point bringing up Pride from other places. From what I know about even the UK, a lot of the smaller cities Pride's are still much more 'grass roots' (Cardiff's is certainly a bit erm rough and ready) and in terms of those marching, etc it's more about community groups getting together. In Cardiff too it's always felt much more 'family friendly' (I LOATHE that term but it does teh job here) as it's in a field, and basically people from all sorts of backgrounds go, hang out, watch entertainment etc. So Pride is different in different places. Except for the fact yes, it does end up with a lot of people getting pissed in a club.
I also was talking with a friend on FB last week about the commerial cashing in-for example Tesco had ads with two men, for Pride. Well Tesco why don't you just do that the rest of the year as a matter of course? and/or make sure you practice what you preach in terms of making sure employees feel they can be 'out' at work if they wish etc. So there's lots of les desirable undertones.
I was happy to hear from a friend that where he stood at least Sadiq Khan got a far louder cheer than Mr Tom Daley!
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Post by Phantom of London on Jul 11, 2017 20:03:18 GMT
My organisation actively supports London Pride, by having the famous London Unerground roundel sign in Pride colours.
I agree that schools/collages/Universities should employ a counsellor to resolve personal issues such as bullying, sexuality and problematic home environment - such as divorce alcohol/drug abuse, sexual abuse etc. These appointment are part of a support process that is confidential and doesn't follow a religious doctrine and the sole focus is on the pupils welfare. If this doesn't happen already. Anything that allows students perform to the best of their ability in an education environment.
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Post by d'James on Jul 11, 2017 20:27:43 GMT
I would like it if teachers would set up LGBT societies in schools (I'm sure some do). I know it wouldn't be universally popular with parents (or Daily Mail readers) but it wouldn't be obligatory. I'd also love it if it was a straight teacher than led it or at least co-led it with an LGBT teacher. This way, students that were struggling would have a teacher to approach (not necessarily at the society meetings) but after school or during break. It would also be very easy to incorporate different aspects of other school subjects into the society (the most obvious example being LGBT History). To bring it back to the topic, the schools could then be involved in organising local Prides. I'll stop as I'll probably go off-topic again.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2017 21:16:35 GMT
I've never been to London Pride but I've been to the majority of B'ham Prides over the last 20 odd years. As a straight guy, I've never felt out of place or intimidated by certain body type perceptions that have been mentioned above. Sure there are a lot of guys in shorts and spandex and the parade will always feature the more extrovert, outrageous costumes but I've always seen a wide range of ages, shapes, sizes etc.
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Post by infofreako on Jul 11, 2017 21:31:49 GMT
I've never been to London Pride but I've been to the majority of B'ham Prides over the last 20 odd years. As a straight guy, I've never felt out of place or intimidated by certain body type perceptions that have been mentioned above. Sure there are a lot of guys in shorts and spandex and the parade will always feature the more extrovert, outrageous costumes but I've always seen a wide range of ages, shapes, sizes etc. I feel the same with Brighton Pride, dont feel out of place at all
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Post by Phantom of London on Jul 11, 2017 22:05:58 GMT
Someone said earlier the Daily Mail readers and let me say Andrew Pierce their associate editor is gay,mother than that he is an arsehole, I point that out as proof that attitudes are shifting and I firmly believe that if a top flight footballer did come out, it wouldn't be a problem and the person would get a lot of support from the media and fans.
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