1,503 posts
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Feud
Dec 20, 2017 17:24:28 GMT
Post by foxa on Dec 20, 2017 17:24:28 GMT
I binge-watched this and highly recommend - the last three episodes perhaps being the very best. Both Sarandon and Lange do amazing jobs. There is a heart-breaking section when Crawford is in England filming something called 'Trog' and writing a lifestyle book. The editing in that section is extraordinary.
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Feud
Dec 20, 2017 21:02:28 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 21:02:28 GMT
I binge-watched this and highly recommend - the last three episodes perhaps being the very best. Both Sarandon and Lange do amazing jobs. There is a heart-breaking section when Crawford is in England filming something called 'Trog' and writing a lifestyle book. The editing in that section is extraordinary. I binged on it too. I don’t watch much TV but I thought this was excellent. So sad to see what happens (still?) to older performers and the pain they have to face in constantly being compared to their younger selves. I also loved the accuracy of the storytelling. I had to fact check a few of the events and they were all true! |
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Post by tonyloco on Dec 24, 2017 1:36:57 GMT
Today (Saturday 23 December) I have binged on Crawford and Davis, having watched a BBC documentary on the two stars, episodes three and four of 'Feud', 'Mildred Pierce' and 'Whatever Happened to Baby Jane'. All brilliant, and my admiration for 'Feud' has now increased greatly after seeing the other three shows with the actual actresses themselves. Even before I see the remainder of 'Feud' I am ready to give the Best Actress Award for 2017 jointly to both Jessica Lange and Susan Sarandon, especially realising now just how accurately Jessica Lange is portraying Joan Crawford – better than I originally thought.
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Feud
Dec 24, 2017 8:59:09 GMT
Post by Tibidabo on Dec 24, 2017 8:59:09 GMT
I am ready to give the Best Actress Award for 2017 jointly to both Jessica Lange and Susan Sarandon, especially realising now just how accurately Jessica Lange is portraying Joan Crawford – better than I originally thought. I'm a bit ahead of you Tony, somewhere in Louisiana, and am enjoying it far, far more than I did after the first episode, which dragged for me somewhat. However, I cannot agree with you about Jessica Lange, sadly. OK, she's not Catherine ZJ hammy dreadful, and I can't put my finger on what it is I don't like about her performance, but I'm not enjoying her in the same way I am Susan Sarandon, Alfred Molina, Judy Davis and Jackie Hoffman. I also saw the BBC documentary you mention and thought it was a great insight, hearing the two of them talk about each other after Baby Jane. (I had to laugh at the quote attributed to Bette when asked to comment on the news of Joan's death, which I hadn't heard before. Something about her saying that you should only speak good of the dead. Then adding: "Good. She's dead.") The sets and costumes continue to fascinate me. Hedda's hats and jewellery deserve an award. I love the wallpaper in the Aldrich's bedroom and the Crawford teal lamps and accessories. The plastic on the sofas reminds me of the first time I visited my brother and sister-in-law-to-be many years ago and remarked how much I liked their newly arrived dining suite (I really, really didn't!) only to be told that they had had it for 4 years! Ooops! And they didn't even have children. Mucky gits! Oh, and who knew Frank Sinatra was such a diva? |
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Post by foxa on Dec 24, 2017 12:16:44 GMT
tonyloco - isn't'Mildred Pierce' wonderful? - that sounds like a really enjoyable bit of binge viewing you've done.
And I agree that the first episode of 'Feud' is the weakest, Tibidabo, but disagree about Lange. I thought she was absolutely brilliant in the last two episodes, when she is trying to make the best of a terrible situation in a way that I found incredibly poignant. Like Tony, I think it's toss up for me - both Sarandon and Lange are great.
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Post by tonyloco on Dec 24, 2017 12:57:07 GMT
I am greatly looking forward to seeing the remaining four episodes of Feud but not sure whether to watch them on the iPlayer on my PC or wait for them to come on my smart TV, on which I am unable to get the iPlayer for various inscrutable technical reasons that I don't understand.
Like Tibidabo, I am fascinated by all the wonderful detail in every aspect of the production of Feud, and the little gems like Frank Sinatra's behaviour are priceless. If I may digress, I loved Robert Aldrich's annoyance that he had to go to New York to see 'My Fair F***ing Lady', which was sort of the 'Hamilton' of its day, and I remembered a joke that was doing the rounds when MFL was the hottest ticket on Broadway:
A man sitting in the stalls notices an empty seat between him and the next man. The first man asks why the seat is empty and is told that it was bought by the second man for his wife but she died.
'Oh' says the first man. 'What a pity. Couldn't you give the ticket to a member of your family or a friend?'
'No' says the second man. 'They are all at the funeral'.
Also, foxa, I agree that 'Mildred Pierce' is wonderful. Two solid hours of Joan Crawford, the whole Joan Crawford and nothing but Joan Crawford. Definitely a virtuoso performance that deserved the Oscar, not so much for great acting in the conventional sense but for great Joan Crawfording! If only Bette Davis's 'Now Voyager' had also been on the TV it would have completed the total immersive experience!
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1,089 posts
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Feud
Dec 24, 2017 13:32:09 GMT
Post by tonyloco on Dec 24, 2017 13:32:09 GMT
PS Here's something for tmesis and Mr Snow.
On the sound track of 'Mildred Pierce' (music by Max Steiner) I noticed a bit of 'It can't be wrong'. Wiki says this melody was originally written by Steiner for the soundtrack of the Bette Davis film 'Now Voyager' in 1942. When the film was finished, Kim Gannon wrote lyrics and the song was published as 'It can't be wrong'. On composing the score for 'Mildred Pierce' in 1945, Steiner used snatches of 'It can't be wrong' in several scenes.
There was one small musical detail in 'Mildred Pierce' that jarred, namely that Ann Blyth as Mildred's wayward daughter Veda, sang the 1912 song 'The Oceana Roll' as a cabaret act in a restaurant. 'Mildred Pierce' is set in the 1930s during the great depression and I felt that the very jolly ragtime song 'The Oceana Roll' was not the kind of number that anybody would have been singing in a cabaret act in a restaurant at that time....but what do I know?!
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Post by Tibidabo on Dec 26, 2017 10:21:36 GMT
Well, I've finished watching this and I agree that it just gets better and better as the series progresses. I'm still not sure about Jessica Lange though and I think I've worked out what it is. Her portrayal of Crawford is great. That's not what's bothered me. But I think, honestly, it's the work she's had done to her face. I really struggle when faces don't twist in the way you'd expect them to when someone is emoting. Recent, dreadful, plastic works of note are Stockard in Apologia and Amanda in last year's Palladium panto. I really don't understand actresses who do this to their faces. Surely we all get more from watching Dames Julie W, Judi, Imelda, etc?
Also, the red lipstick of the day was used on cupid bow mouths, not on collagen stretched ones and that was also a bit weird, and not just on Miss Lange.
However, an enjoyable and informative romp and I hope it wins lots of awards.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2017 11:50:40 GMT
Well, I've finished watching this and I agree that it just gets better and better as the series progresses. I'm still not sure about Jessica Lange though and I think I've worked out what it is. Her portrayal of Crawford is great. That's not what's bothered me. But I think, honestly, it's the work she's had done to her face. I really struggle when faces don't twist in the way you'd expect them to when someone is emoting. Recent, dreadful, plastic works of note are Stockard in Apologia and Amanda in last year's Palladium panto. I really don't understand actresses who do this to their faces. Surely we all get more from watching Dames Julie W, Judi, Imelda, etc? Also, the red lipstick of the day was used on cupid bow mouths, not on collagen stretched ones and that was also a bit weird, and not just on Miss Lange. However, an enjoyable and informative romp and I hope it wins lots of awards. I agree with you that actors should avoid plastic surgery. I saw a film with Geena Davis recently (Marjorie Prime) and thought her great. performance would have been even more effective if the signs of natural ageing were more visible on her face. One of the joys of following actors is to observe them moving through the life cycle. I actually thought (perhaps controversially) that Lange seemed a bit too old for the role -I thinks she is 70(?) while Crawford was in her fifties when she made WHTBJ. Lange is great but it is a different life stage and it shows on screen - the surgery makes her seem even older, like a woman whose beauty faded many years ago. In her fifties a woman (even a beautiful one like JC) is written off because she can no longer compete with younger women even though the experience she has accrued make her a formidable screen presence. It is a huge transition point and this must be even more acute for someone whose beauty was so publicly celebrated. In the real JC at this stage you see the palimpsest of her youth overwritten by her developing alcoholism. Personally,I love seeing older faces on screen. Look at how beautiful Judi Dench is. Actors who resort to surgery deny their audience the opportunity to witness and reflect on the life cycle that is the very stuff of drama. |
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Post by tonyloco on Jan 7, 2018 0:40:06 GMT
Tonight we saw the final two episodes of 'Feud' and I am really in bits. As Tibidabo said, it just got better and better as it went along and Jessica Lange's performance was really tremendous as the ageing Crawford. I thought the imaginary dinner party at the end was a stroke of genius and was typical of the high quality of the writing and directing throughout the whole series. As noted before, all the production details were first rate and I am already feeling deprived now that it has ended. It should scoop the pool for whatever awards are given for the best in TV – it could have been ghastly but it was in fact magnificent.
But at least we still have Dame Olivia de Havilland's lawsuit to look forward to!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2018 7:48:27 GMT
Great series. I was disappointed that BBC2 didn't complete the run of tie-in films by showing "Trog" this week. I saw it at the NFT a couple of years ago, introduced by John Waters, and it's great fun. For Doctor Who fans, the plot is incredibly similar to "The Silurians" with Joan Crawford in the Jon Pertwee role. Oddly the two appear to have been made pretty much at the same time so this is just coincidence.
Anyway, here's John Waters' intro to the film followed (3 minutes in) by an interview with the guy who played Trog who talks about working with Joan - she was apparently highly professional and subsequently sent him a Christmas card every year!
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Post by peggysue on Jan 7, 2018 11:49:37 GMT
Fantastic series and excellent acting by both leads. I see numerous awards for both. It would be great to see other stories about stars of the Golden Age in Hollywood
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jan 7, 2018 18:58:56 GMT
Binged today after only managing to see the first couple of episodes illegally when it was broadcast in the US. Glad I waited to watch a proper copy that did justice to the sets and costumes which were fabulous, along with the performances.
Good job there were no more episodes otherwise I think I might have got emphysema by proxy with all that ciggie smoking!
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Post by hulmeman on Jan 7, 2018 19:06:58 GMT
Apart from brilliant performances from Sarandon and Lange there was the impeccable period detail AND as if that's not enough Jackie Hoffman - no more needs to be said!!! Wonderful stuff!
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Feud
Jan 7, 2018 19:25:36 GMT
Post by BurlyBeaR on Jan 7, 2018 19:25:36 GMT
Do you think Joan was covering her upholstery in plastic right up to her death or was that a bit of artistic licence?
I googled Bette’s house and it was indeed that ‘olde english’ dark beams, brass knick-knacks and log fireplace look as depicted in the show.
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Post by n1david on Jan 7, 2018 20:02:01 GMT
I thought this was superb - binged it over this week and got completely absorbed.
What I’m most intrigued about is, given the success of this one, whether the BBC will have the nerve to show Season 2, “Feud: Charles and Diana” which is in production now.
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Post by alece10 on Jan 7, 2018 20:58:27 GMT
Just watched the last 2 episodes. What a wonderful series and quite sad at the end. Fantastic acting from everyone and such detail to the period.
Has it been nominated for any awards?
Hope it's released on DVD as it's something you could return to again and again.
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Post by WireHangers on Jan 8, 2018 12:53:24 GMT
Just watched the last 2 episodes. What a wonderful series and quite sad at the end. Fantastic acting from everyone and such detail to the period. Has it been nominated for any awards? Hope it's released on DVD as it's something you could return to again and again. It's been nominated for just about every major award. Don't think the show has won many but both leading ladies have been nominated for Emmys and Golden Globes as well as a handful of nominations for the Supporting Cast. The show has also been nominated for Best Miniseries for both Golden Globes and Emmys. |
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Feud
Jan 8, 2018 14:12:51 GMT
Post by BurlyBeaR on Jan 8, 2018 14:12:51 GMT
Even the opening titles were stylish and fab. Reminded me of Hitchcock for some reason.
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Post by tonyloco on Jan 8, 2018 14:15:12 GMT
Fantastic series and excellent acting by both leads. I see numerous awards for both. It would be great to see other stories about stars of the Golden Age in Hollywood Yes, that would be great. In fact, we are already about to see one actually happening in real time as Olivia de Havilland is suing Ryan Murphy about how her own feud with her sister Joan Fontaine was depicted in 'Feud'. Just off the top of my head, I would be interested in series that are as well-made as 'Feud' even about the Hollywood relationships that were happy, like Bogart & Bacall and Tracey & Hepburn. And an accurate and detailed telling of the Mac and Mabel story including all the other players like Fatty Arbuckle, Mack Sennet's other stars and the various writers of the day. And what about just individual portraits of the great stars of the silent era like the Gish Sisters, Clara Bow, Theda Bara, Gloria Swanson (pace 'Sunset Boulevard'), Eric von Stroheim, Laurel and Hardy, WC Fields... I'm sure some of them would make fascinating mini-series. Or am I just fantasising about old Hollywood...! |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2018 15:20:36 GMT
What I’m most intrigued about is, given the success of this one, whether the BBC will have the nerve to show Season 2, “Feud: Charles and Diana” which is in production now. The Charles and Diana one seems like such a lazy choice. You can see how it's going to go. Yet another chance to sanctify Diana and demonise Charles and Camilla. Yawn. |
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Feud
Jan 14, 2018 22:13:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2018 22:13:17 GMT
What I’m most intrigued about is, given the success of this one, whether the BBC will have the nerve to show Season 2, “Feud: Charles and Diana” which is in production now. The Charles and Diana one seems like such a lazy choice. You can see how it's going to go. Yet another chance to sanctify Diana and demonise Charles and Camilla. Yawn. If it’s made by the team who did the Bette and Jane series it may receive more balanced treatment. I was so pleased that they didn’t show Joan brandishing coat hangers. I hope they do a series based on Noel and Liam Gallagher - although, that may already have been covered by Star stories. |
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Feud
Jan 15, 2018 8:17:43 GMT
Post by BurlyBeaR on Jan 15, 2018 8:17:43 GMT
I doubt Ryan Murphy would be interested in remaking the Andrew Morton version. As the years have passed it’s become more apparent that Diana was a bit of a nut job when it came to men. Stalking Will Carling and that surgeon and his family for example. There might have been reasons for her behaviour but all that, plus the plotting to get ahead of Charles in the press abd that whole “queen of hearts *flutter eyelashes*” schlick could make a good story.
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Feud
Jan 15, 2018 12:08:44 GMT
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Post by karloscar on Jan 15, 2018 12:08:44 GMT
The main problem with Charles and Diana is that unless they totally change his personality and way of speaking it'll be like watching paint dry. Granted he may be a bit more dynamic away from the cameras, but he's fundamentally dull and boring. So where's the drama?
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Feud
Jan 15, 2018 13:36:17 GMT
Post by dizzieblonde on Jan 15, 2018 13:36:17 GMT
The main problem with Charles and Diana is that unless they totally change his personality and way of speaking it'll be like watching paint dry. Granted he may be a bit more dynamic away from the cameras, but he's fundamentally dull and boring. So where's the drama? I doubt the problems with Charles' personality are going to be the main ones that scupper the show! I suspect this is a subject that would attract a certain part of an American audience in a totally alien way to how the UK audience will react. There's a strange obsession in the US about the Royal family, that still is centralised around the 'cult of Diana', that just doesn't exist in the UK now (15-20 years ago perhaps). I'm betting the Feud subject matter will be treated with slightly more reverence by the US media, compared to the near inevitable mauling it will get (possibly justifiably so) from the UK press, but even so, it still has car crash TV written all over it. The concept is interesting, the execution will probably be 'Star Stories' territory, as the previous poster said! No matter how much Ryan Murphy thinks the idea of presenting these two as characters in an epic feud, I just look at how badly the Diana film bombed, as to what the public appetite really is for a story about Diana. Actually, a great follow up (although possibly too similar as it covers similar ground and time period as Bette and Joan) would have been Olivia de Havilland and Joan Fontaine - sisters, rivals, and de Havilland already handily portrayed in the anthology by Catherine Zeta Jones. Epic feud between those two, going back to their early years. If they wanted to go in another direction, non-Hollywood, I would have suggested Vincent Van Gogh and Paul Gauguin - Van Gogh apparently cut off his ear in front of Gaugin (although some reports have it that Gaugin did the ear cutting!) - and their totally insane relationship! That has epic feud written all over it! |
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