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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2021 13:20:12 GMT
I do hope so. It'd be good to move the conversation on after months of angst and aggro. I think a previous poster's suggestions that this board have two threads (one for the original production, and one for the 'new' version) might be the sensible way forward. Clearly the ones who have decided the new production is amazing have no time for discussions of the original. And vice versa, those who think the new version is terrible before it plays its first performance. Maybe ALW asking fans to come see it was so they could have an informed opinion. He doesn't need the fans to keep the show going Some people's sense of entitlement over a musical they have seen a few times astounds me. And no, i don't care how many times you have seen it or where. |
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Post by scarpia on Jul 16, 2021 18:40:12 GMT
I think a previous poster's suggestions that this board have two threads (one for the original production, and one for the 'new' version) might be the sensible way forward. Clearly the ones who have decided the new production is amazing have no time for discussions of the original. And vice versa, those who think the new version is terrible before it plays its first performance. Maybe ALW asking fans to come see it was so they could have an informed opinion. He doesn't need the fans to keep the show going Some people's sense of entitlement over a musical they have seen a few times astounds me. And no, i don't care how many times you have seen it or where. Given the 'new' version already played Leicester, I think commenting on it is more than fair. The 14-piece orchestrations have also been used and heard in other productions, so that's not new either. And as for the design changes, it's pretty obvious that having the drapes hanging off an internal frame with the cracked effect on the sides and minimal sculptures, as opposed to the a full proscenium with the sculptures that Prince and Björnson considered crucial to the aesthetic of the show is a change for the worse. I think you are mistaking genuine concern for the artistic integrity of the piece with 'entitlement'. I always find the 'entitlement' argument a bit of an odd one in this day and age where artistic output - once it is in front of a public - can be, and is, entirely divorced from its creator(s). |
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Post by inthenose on Jul 16, 2021 19:08:28 GMT
And vice versa, those who think the new version is terrible before it plays its first performance. Maybe ALW asking fans to come see it was so they could have an informed opinion. He doesn't need the fans to keep the show going Some people's sense of entitlement over a musical they have seen a few times astounds me. And no, i don't care how many times you have seen it or where. Given the 'new' version already played Leicester, I think commenting on it is more than fair. The 14-piece orchestrations have also been used and heard in other productions, so that's not new either. And as for the design changes, it's pretty obvious that having the drapes hanging off an internal frame with the cracked effect on the sides and minimal sculptures, as opposed to the a full proscenium with the sculptures that Prince and Björnson considered crucial to the aesthetic of the show is a change for the worse. I think you are mistaking genuine concern for the artistic integrity of the piece with 'entitlement'. I always find the 'entitlement' argument a bit of an odd one in this day and age where artistic output - once it is in front of a public - can be, and is, entirely divorced from its creator(s). Very well put. |
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Post by ceebee on Jul 16, 2021 19:42:46 GMT
Though this isn't the Leicester version. It's a hybrid.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jul 16, 2021 20:08:14 GMT
And no one has actually seen it yet.
And some of the definitive statements made earlier in this thread appear to be incorrect.
And the whole “Cameron Mackintosh read the socials and changed his mind so now we have a chandelier aren't we amazing” is unlikely and suspect, to put it lightly.
I think I’d be very wary of passing judgment on this until it’s been seen. Whatever camp you’re in, you could end up with egg on your face. Just a suggestion of course, carry on opining if you want to but it’s not long to wait now is it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2021 21:23:51 GMT
Everyone is entitled to an opinion on a show, but constantly repeating yourself about the angel,or the horse or the drapes, or the wobbly candelabras, or the size of the chandalier, or the sound of the orchestra, or what Hal wanted or what Maria envisioned isnt going to bring it back. Maybe consider setting up a support group for 'Phans of the Brilliant Original'
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Post by tom on Jul 16, 2021 21:56:10 GMT
Not to divert the discussion to Les Miz, but JOJ is a fine singer, but I think he is so dire and boring with zero facial expression. I've never seen him in Phantom, but I just don't think he's a good fit at all. He's kind of a big husky guy. Works for Les Miz, but it isn't the Phantom look I am accustomed to. But I guess he must be doing something right for doing the role again and again. And again and again. And again and again. He is amazing in Phantom. "but his voice filled my spirit with a strange sweet sound" sums it all up. He has an amazing voice and presence. He is one of the best Phantoms I've seen and certainly the best vocally. |
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Post by tom on Jul 16, 2021 21:57:43 GMT
Not to divert the discussion to Les Miz, but JOJ is a fine singer, but I think he is so dire and boring with zero facial expression. I've never seen him in Phantom, but I just don't think he's a good fit at all. He's kind of a big husky guy. Works for Les Miz, but it isn't the Phantom look I am accustomed to. But I guess he must be doing something right for doing the role again and again. And again and again. And again and again. He is amazing in Phantom. "but his voice filled my spirit with a strange sweet sound" sums it all up. He has an amazing voice and presence. He is one of the best Phantoms I've seen and certainly the best vocally. Oops, bit drunk so replied to a message from years ago! |
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Post by danb on Jul 17, 2021 7:47:10 GMT
Everyone is entitled to an opinion on a show, but constantly repeating yourself about the angel,or the horse or the drapes, or the wobbly candelabras, or the size of the chandalier, or the sound of the orchestra, or what Hal wanted or what Maria envisioned isnt going to bring it back. Maybe consider setting up a support group for 'Phans of the Brilliant Original' Careful…you’ll be accused of trying to shut people down and close the conversation…(not the actual fact that this conversation has gone round and round and round, zealots on one side, a balanced view on the other repeating the same things ad infinitum). |
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Post by 141920grm on Jul 17, 2021 10:39:31 GMT
Everyone is entitled to an opinion on a show, but constantly repeating yourself about the angel,or the horse or the drapes, or the wobbly candelabras, or the size of the chandalier, or the sound of the orchestra, or what Hal wanted or what Maria envisioned isnt going to bring it back. Maybe consider setting up a support group for 'Phans of the Brilliant Original' Agree it's not going to bring it back, but this is literally the thread about the show with the angel, the drapes, the wobbly candelabras, the chandelier, the sound of the orchestra, and what Hal wanted and what Maria envisioned. Really, please- a new thread for the Sklar-Heyn-directed production, for those who are so reluctant to engage with conversations about the pre-pandemic West End production, in the thread created to discuss the pre-pandemic West End production. Like in a playgroup- separate the kids who keep on aggravating each other. Because I really do quite enjoy the facts and anecdotes when we on rare occasions productively and positively discuss it and its creators these days. |
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Post by max on Jul 17, 2021 11:28:34 GMT
Everyone is entitled to an opinion on a show, but constantly repeating yourself about the angel,or the horse or the drapes, or the wobbly candelabras, or the size of the chandalier, or the sound of the orchestra, or what Hal wanted or what Maria envisioned isnt going to bring it back. Maybe consider setting up a support group for 'Phans of the Brilliant Original' Agree it's not going to bring it back, but this is literally the thread about the show with the angel, the drapes, the wobbly candelabras, the chandelier, the sound of the orchestra, and what Hal wanted and what Maria envisioned. Really, please- a new thread for the Sklar-Heyn-directed production, for those who are so reluctant to engage with conversations about the pre-pandemic West End production, in the thread created to discuss the pre-pandemic West End production. Like in a playgroup- separate the kids who keep on aggravating each other. Because I really do quite enjoy the facts and anecdotes when we on rare occasions productively and positively discuss it and its creators these days. When a new element comes into the discussion - like the sharing of that extract from the conversation with Hal and ALW - it feels more than fair if there's a revival of the same/similar comments as before - it's notable. There's not a flicker of a reaction from ALW, to Hal's comment - awkward and rather sad. If what's different is because it was in the original vision, but only now achievable due to new tech, THAT would be a reason for changing it. Bring back the scurrying rats! |
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Post by daisy24601 on Jul 17, 2021 16:20:37 GMT
Just looking at booking some tickets, are pillars in the stalls still going to be an issue? (Sorry, haven't read the whole thread)
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Post by inthenose on Jul 17, 2021 16:57:30 GMT
I agree, there should be two threads at this stage. It seems the only people with a problem and trying to moderate the chat are the ones who constantly complain about everyone discussing the original production.
It's very irritating when someone makes a point, which merits debate. A fan of the original production replies to that point. Then someone else jumps in and says we're going around in circles.
It's like fans of the original production have to let you have the last word on a subject, no matter how wrong you are. If we challenge it, we are "being repetitive".
It's absolutely bonkers logic.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2021 18:19:08 GMT
I agree, there should be two threads at this stage. It seems the only people with a problem and trying to moderate the chat are the ones who constantly complain about everyone discussing the original production. It's very irritating when someone makes a point, which merits debate. A fan of the original production replies to that point. Then someone else jumps in and says we're going around in circles. It's like fans of the original production have to let you have the last word on a subject, no matter how wrong you are. If we challenge it, we are "being repetitive". It's absolutely bonkers logic. Perspective is a funny thing, because I read this thread as many fans of the original production refusing to let anyone have so much as a sniff of positivity or optimism about any of the changes, never mind express any understanding for the business reasons for making them. As someone who doesn't have a deep rooted emotional attachment to the original I feel unwelcome to make any comment in this thread for fear of being pounced on and told I'm wrong (when there is no such thing as a wrong opinion). But you are absolutely right that this thread is going nowhere. |
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Post by danb on Jul 17, 2021 18:57:33 GMT
Just looking at booking some tickets, are pillars in the stalls still going to be an issue? (Sorry, haven't read the whole thread) I think the point Daisy, is are they still there? Or has somebody replaced them with a papier mache approximation of marble just to upset people who hold those pillars dear, even if they restrict their view, thereby allowing them the opportunity to purchase a bargain £600 restricted view ticket? It’s no wonder there’s uproar. 🤣 Don’t get me started on ‘Be More Chill’s transfer! Apparently the video screen has slightly lower resolution than the one at the Other Palace. Criminal. |
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Post by ceebee on Jul 17, 2021 19:37:38 GMT
Just looking at booking some tickets, are pillars in the stalls still going to be an issue? (Sorry, haven't read the whole thread) Go back and read the whole thread... for your sins... :-) |
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Post by ceebee on Jul 17, 2021 19:39:48 GMT
Just looking at booking some tickets, are pillars in the stalls still going to be an issue? (Sorry, haven't read the whole thread) I think the point Daisy, is are they still there? Or has somebody replaced them with a papier mache approximation of marble just to upset people who hold those pillars dear, even if they restrict their view, thereby allowing them the opportunity to purchase a bargain £600 restricted view ticket? It’s no wonder there’s uproar. 🤣 Don’t get me started on ‘Be More Chill’s transfer! Apparently the video screen has slightly lower resolution than the one at the Other Palace. Criminal. This particular conversation is going round and round in Stalls. |
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Post by inthenose on Jul 17, 2021 19:47:35 GMT
Just looking at booking some tickets, are pillars in the stalls still going to be an issue? (Sorry, haven't read the whole thread) I think the point Daisy, is are they still there? Or has somebody replaced them with a papier mache approximation of marble just to upset people who hold those pillars dear, even if they restrict their view, thereby allowing them the opportunity to purchase a bargain £600 restricted view ticket? It’s no wonder there’s uproar. 🤣 Don’t get me started on ‘Be More Chill’s transfer! Apparently the video screen has slightly lower resolution than the one at the Other Palace. Criminal. Improvements for the better are always welcomed. Money saving by faceless corporate entities should never be welcomed by the consumer. Here, buy the new iPhone 13, it costs more, has a smaller screen, lower resolution and the camera is blurry. But it's new and has good marketing copy. It's worse than before? Well you're just being negative. I bet they see you coming a mile off. |
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Post by danb on Jul 17, 2021 19:55:53 GMT
My point is still ‘wait & see’. Feel free to slate it to Orkney and back when it opens and all your fears are realised. Until then surely it is better to hope for the best?
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Post by daisy24601 on Jul 18, 2021 4:41:06 GMT
Just looking at booking some tickets, are pillars in the stalls still going to be an issue? (Sorry, haven't read the whole thread) Go back and read the whole thread... for your sins... :-) Uh, I think I'll wait and see 😅 |
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Post by 141920grm on Jul 18, 2021 7:23:06 GMT
I agree, there should be two threads at this stage. It seems the only people with a problem and trying to moderate the chat are the ones who constantly complain about everyone discussing the original production. It's very irritating when someone makes a point, which merits debate. A fan of the original production replies to that point. Then someone else jumps in and says we're going around in circles. It's like fans of the original production have to let you have the last word on a subject, no matter how wrong you are. If we challenge it, we are "being repetitive". It's absolutely bonkers logic. Perspective is a funny thing, because I read this thread as many fans of the original production refusing to let anyone have so much as a sniff of positivity or optimism about any of the changes, never mind express any understanding for the business reasons for making them. As someone who doesn't have a deep rooted emotional attachment to the original I feel unwelcome to make any comment in this thread for fear of being pounced on and told I'm wrong (when there is no such thing as a wrong opinion). But you are absolutely right that this thread is going nowhere. Literally the reason I am begging for separate threads! It's really crap that you feel unwelcome and fearful to make a comment, a situation easily solved by mods separating the threads- don't see why we have to wait till the 27th to have that. So many upcoming shows have their own threads, BurlyBeaR, and obviously this chat is getting less and less enjoyable for all involved. Your experience only supports my request, Poster J. New perspectives always deserve to be heard, so please, I would love to see a NEW thread dedicated to the NEW production imbued with all your positivity and optimism- I value all knowledgeable input and critical thought, a lot less when parties are trying to cancel out each other. |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jul 18, 2021 7:48:56 GMT
The answer to that is to stop trying to cancel out eachother, not to have a new thread. In fact having a new thread by its very nature is trying to cancel out the opposition by making some definitive gesture “Aah a new thread. So it IS a new production. Told you!”.
To be perfectly honest if some people can’t get along amicably on this long running London production thread, they will not get along if there are two threads because experience tells me that those people will not be able to refrain from commenting on both. That just gives the mods two places to break up arguments.
Finally, we didn’t start a new thread for Les Mis even when no one can deny that it was substantially changed. People dealt with it. It’s not about the number of threads it’s about how people choose to engage with each other on them.
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Post by danb on Jul 18, 2021 8:27:01 GMT
Attempts to keep it light hearted start to fail when the ‘opposition’ make personal comments about ones ability to spot whether they are being ripped off or not.
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Post by ceebee on Jul 18, 2021 8:37:11 GMT
I agree danb. I even posted a post a couple of days ago admitting that I recognise and agree with some of the concerns being raised about the transition to a new version. However, no amount of digging in of heels or reiteration of the past will change the fact that this is a new production. Having said that, this board is relatively lightweight compared to some of the vehement (and, frankly, quite nasty) messages slating ALW/CML without having seen the new version. Also, if it bothers people that much when it eventually arrives, they always have the option to vote with their feet and not spend their hard-earned cash on the show. When the lines about drapes, the angel, the candelbra get dragged out, it's like listening to Uncle Albert bang on about when he was in the war...
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Post by danb on Jul 18, 2021 10:50:07 GMT
I agree danb. I even posted a post a couple of days ago admitting that I recognise and agree with some of the concerns being raised about the transition to a new version. However, no amount of digging in of heels or reiteration of the past will change the fact that this is a new production. Having said that, this board is relatively lightweight compared to some of the vehement (and, frankly, quite nasty) messages slating ALW/CML without having seen the new version. Also, if it bothers people that much when it eventually arrives, they always have the option to vote with their feet and not spend their hard-earned cash on the show. When the lines about drapes, the angel, the candelbra get dragged out, it's like listening to Uncle Albert bang on about when he was in the war... …without the new war having actually happened yet. |
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