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Post by scarpia on Oct 30, 2020 14:35:05 GMT
If there's no Angel, no red curtain, no hat, cheap/absent statues, it sure as hell isn't the original.
The flat goes directly against Hal and Maria's vision, and Maria as long as she was alive resisted the calls for the Angel to go (which date as far back as the early 1990s) because it was her favourite set piece.
Maybe the people who kept shouting everyone down when we said this would happen might listen this time?
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Post by dollybm on Oct 30, 2020 16:03:45 GMT
I would be very surprised if it’s not the Tour Cast that go into the show at Her Majesty’s. The current limited chances for promotion of POTO (BGT and the Show Must Go On Live Concert) have been / will be the touring cast representing the show.
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Post by westendboy on Oct 30, 2020 16:23:29 GMT
Honestly don't know how to feel about this, no thanks to the mixed messaging. I hope it as Dom says and that the angel, chandelier and curtain will be sorted and still be included, if that is what you meant. But if it does end up being as from what I've heard, a watered down version of the original, which no angel and a chandelier that doesn't rise from the stage to the roof, when it will be a major loss in my eyes.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2020 16:30:19 GMT
Honestly don't know how to feel about this, no thanks to the mixed messaging. I hope it as Dom says and that the angel, chandelier and curtain will be sorted and still be included, if that is what you meant. But if it does end up being as from what I've heard, a watered down version of the original, which no angel and a chandelier that doesn't rise from the stage to the roof, when it will be a major loss in my eyes. On stage, with the big hitters, Cameron has almost never disappointed. Truly believe we should have faith :-) |
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Post by scarpia on Oct 30, 2020 16:33:36 GMT
LOL. After all the "having faith" about ALW keeping his word about Her Majesty's genuinely having the original back, we now want to "have faith" in Cameron?
I think it's pretty horrendous that they did this as soon as Mr Prince passed away.
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Post by westendboy on Oct 30, 2020 16:44:11 GMT
Honestly don't know how to feel about this, no thanks to the mixed messaging. I hope it as Dom says and that the angel, chandelier and curtain will be sorted and still be included, if that is what you meant. But if it does end up being as from what I've heard, a watered down version of the original, which no angel and a chandelier that doesn't rise from the stage to the roof, when it will be a major loss in my eyes. On stage, with the big hitters, Cameron has almost never disappointed. Truly believe we should have faith :-) I hope your right Dom. I've also heard from some that the tour at Leicester wasn't fully "complete", as in that they were having issues with the chandelier so they had to use the one from the 25th anniversary tour. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2020 16:48:09 GMT
On stage, with the big hitters, Cameron has almost never disappointed. Truly believe we should have faith :-) I hope your right Dom. I've also heard from some that the tour at Leicester wasn't fully "complete", as in that they were having issues with the chandelier so they had to use the one from the 25th anniversary tour. I dunno, with all the 'rona doom and gloom I have to feel optimistic about the returns of the shows I love. And is true within my personal experience, that I have never been disappointed at a big Cam Mac show. Or indeed an RUG one! Yes you're right, the proscenium and the height of the auditorium meant that that part of the set including the chandelier was not complete for Leicester and was due to be unveiled in Manchester :-) |
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Post by westendboy on Oct 30, 2020 17:02:44 GMT
I hope your right Dom. I've also heard from some that the tour at Leicester wasn't fully "complete", as in that they were having issues with the chandelier so they had to use the one from the 25th anniversary tour. I dunno, with all the 'rona doom and gloom I have to feel optimistic about the returns of the shows I love. And is true within my personal experience, that I have never been disappointed at a big Cam Mac show. Or indeed an RUG one! Yes you're right, the proscenium and the height of the auditorium meant that that part of the set including the chandelier was not complete for Leicester and was due to be unveiled in Manchester :-) We do need some optimism, especially in these current times. I hope that is the case with what you said about they were going to unveil in Manchester, but we'll just have to wait and see. Maybe ALW does see this touring version as "the brilliant original" and is what he was talking about in his tweets and videos on twitter. He did say in the video where he's inside Her Majesty's that it was time to "rethink" some scenery. Now I don't know exactly what he meant by that, but maybe the touring version coming in is what he meant? And besides, I'm still happy that Phantom is coming back and with 'Love Never Dies' making a comeback, I'd like to see it again to prepare myself. Besides, when Les Mis transferred from the Palace to the Queen's (Sondheim), they made some revisions to the staging. Although when they did that, the original creative team (Trevor Nunn, John Caird and John Napier) were involved. |
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Post by mailtrix on Oct 30, 2020 20:48:24 GMT
The fact that ALW says that when Phantom comes back it will be Hal Prince's production "hopefully", does put me on edge a little. It's different to what he said over a month ago when he said that it would be Prince's production coming back "in it's entirety". I know I probably sound like a paranoid bozo at the moment, but now I'm not sure about what Phantom's future will be like. Where did he say that the Prince production will return in its entirety? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2020 21:30:11 GMT
I think it's pretty horrendous that they did this as soon as Mr Prince passed away. I doubt that has anything to do with it, this will have been in the works for months, if not years. I am still bemused by the number of people who appear not to understand, or at least to wilfully ignore, the fact that in business heart simply doesn't rule head. This is pure economics to keep the show running profitably, which it has to in order to keep going at all. Nostalgia doesn't and won't come into it, so criticising anyone for that is a complete waste of time that ignores the commercial reality of any theatre production. Yes, it's a shame, but no, it's not sacrilege. |
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Post by westendboy on Oct 30, 2020 22:42:26 GMT
The fact that ALW says that when Phantom comes back it will be Hal Prince's production "hopefully", does put me on edge a little. It's different to what he said over a month ago when he said that it would be Prince's production coming back "in it's entirety". I know I probably sound like a paranoid bozo at the moment, but now I'm not sure about what Phantom's future will be like. Where did he say that the Prince production will return in its entirety? At the 12:55 mark, he says that. |
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Post by scarpia on Nov 1, 2020 15:11:51 GMT
I think it's pretty horrendous that they did this as soon as Mr Prince passed away. I doubt that has anything to do with it, this will have been in the works for months, if not years. I am still bemused by the number of people who appear not to understand, or at least to wilfully ignore, the fact that in business heart simply doesn't rule head. This is pure economics to keep the show running profitably, which it has to in order to keep going at all. Nostalgia doesn't and won't come into it, so criticising anyone for that is a complete waste of time that ignores the commercial reality of any theatre production. Yes, it's a shame, but no, it's not sacrilege. No-one is disputing that they're making these changes to make the show cheaper to run - that's what we've been saying all along. What is being objected to is the misleading marketing of calling it the brilliant original production. In an earlier video posted on ALW's official Twitter/Facebook, where ALW says the Prince production will return, he also says they will 'rethink some of the scenery'. Which fits in very well with what Cameron is saying about the 2020 tour going into HM's. Rethinking the scenery and bringing back Maria Björnson's original designs are mutually exclusive. You can't have both. We know what they're doing. What is leaving a sour taste is calling it 'bigger and better', and still the original production, when actually it will be downsized with higher ticket prices. All people are asking is to have honesty about it rather than scamming the average consumer. |
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Post by musicalmarge on Nov 1, 2020 15:16:12 GMT
Business is all about scamming the customer no?
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Post by westendboy on Nov 1, 2020 15:20:48 GMT
I doubt that has anything to do with it, this will have been in the works for months, if not years. I am still bemused by the number of people who appear not to understand, or at least to wilfully ignore, the fact that in business heart simply doesn't rule head. This is pure economics to keep the show running profitably, which it has to in order to keep going at all. Nostalgia doesn't and won't come into it, so criticising anyone for that is a complete waste of time that ignores the commercial reality of any theatre production. Yes, it's a shame, but no, it's not sacrilege. No-one is disputing that they're making these changes to make the show cheaper to run - that's what we've been saying all along. What is being objected to is the misleading marketing of calling it the brilliant original production. In an earlier video posted on ALW's official Twitter/Facebook, where ALW says the Prince production will return, he also says they will 'rethink some of the scenery'. Which fits in very well with what Cameron is saying about the 2020 tour going into HM's. Rethinking the scenery and bringing back Maria Björnson's original designs are mutually exclusive. You can't have both. We know what they're doing. What is leaving a sour taste is calling it 'bigger and better', and still the original production, when actually it will be downsized with higher ticket prices. All people are asking is to have honesty about it rather than scamming the average consumer. We do also have to take into consideration of that some people have said that the Leicester performance of the tour apparently wasn't complete and they had to reuse some scenery used in the 2012 tour and they were hoping to reveal it properly in Manchester. Not saying that this is definitely what they were planning, just repeating what was said. |
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Post by scarpia on Nov 2, 2020 10:57:14 GMT
No-one is disputing that they're making these changes to make the show cheaper to run - that's what we've been saying all along. What is being objected to is the misleading marketing of calling it the brilliant original production. In an earlier video posted on ALW's official Twitter/Facebook, where ALW says the Prince production will return, he also says they will 'rethink some of the scenery'. Which fits in very well with what Cameron is saying about the 2020 tour going into HM's. Rethinking the scenery and bringing back Maria Björnson's original designs are mutually exclusive. You can't have both. We know what they're doing. What is leaving a sour taste is calling it 'bigger and better', and still the original production, when actually it will be downsized with higher ticket prices. All people are asking is to have honesty about it rather than scamming the average consumer. We do also have to take into consideration of that some people have said that the Leicester performance of the tour apparently wasn't complete and they had to reuse some scenery used in the 2012 tour and they were hoping to reveal it properly in Manchester. Not saying that this is definitely what they were planning, just repeating what was said. While this is true, the only piece from the 2012 tour used in the Curve production was the chandelier. And even the one that was planned wasn't as grand as the London original, nor did was it going to rise from the stage. That said, I really can't see ALW agreeing to a non-rising chandelier as he repeatedly calls that a key theatrical moment of the piece and is proud of it as apparently it was his idea to begin with. So I think we're safe with a rising chandelier - how grand it will be, I have no idea. I really hope that, given the London production is a sit-down production, they won't cut corners and have such an empty/bare proscenium, particularly as those statues was integral to Hal Prince's vision. I will, however, be immensely surprised if the Angel returns. That was never conceived for the 2020 tour and it sounds like it's being ditched, along with half of the orchestra. Also at risk are the rising candelabra. It will be rather underwhelming if they come in from the sides or half are replaced with projections. Then we'll get told it's bigger and better and will be asked to pay more. |
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Post by westendboy on Nov 2, 2020 15:17:09 GMT
We do also have to take into consideration of that some people have said that the Leicester performance of the tour apparently wasn't complete and they had to reuse some scenery used in the 2012 tour and they were hoping to reveal it properly in Manchester. Not saying that this is definitely what they were planning, just repeating what was said. While this is true, the only piece from the 2012 tour used in the Curve production was the chandelier. And even the one that was planned wasn't as grand as the London original, nor did was it going to rise from the stage. That said, I really can't see ALW agreeing to a non-rising chandelier as he repeatedly calls that a key theatrical moment of the piece and is proud of it as apparently it was his idea to begin with. So I think we're safe with a rising chandelier - how grand it will be, I have no idea. I really hope that, given the London production is a sit-down production, they won't cut corners and have such an empty/bare proscenium, particularly as those statues was integral to Hal Prince's vision. I will, however, be immensely surprised if the Angel returns. That was never conceived for the 2020 tour and it sounds like it's being ditched, along with half of the orchestra. Also at risk are the rising candelabra. It will be rather underwhelming if they come in from the sides or half are replaced with projections. Then we'll get told it's bigger and better and will be asked to pay more. We'll just have to wait and see when the show reopens and anyone who goes to see it will tell us on here. I hope that we will still see the chandelier rising from the stage and still being grand as it does, but the Angel is the set piece I'm praying will return, as well as the proscenium and candelabra. My guess/hope is that they will be reusing some of the sets used in the recent tour, but will refurbish/rebuild other bits of set like the Angel, chandelier, etc. So they would be saving some costs, whilst also not spending too much on refurbishing/rebuilding. But this could just be wishful thinking on my end. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2020 15:39:18 GMT
While this is true, the only piece from the 2012 tour used in the Curve production was the chandelier. And even the one that was planned wasn't as grand as the London original, nor did was it going to rise from the stage. That said, I really can't see ALW agreeing to a non-rising chandelier as he repeatedly calls that a key theatrical moment of the piece and is proud of it as apparently it was his idea to begin with. So I think we're safe with a rising chandelier - how grand it will be, I have no idea. I really hope that, given the London production is a sit-down production, they won't cut corners and have such an empty/bare proscenium, particularly as those statues was integral to Hal Prince's vision. I will, however, be immensely surprised if the Angel returns. That was never conceived for the 2020 tour and it sounds like it's being ditched, along with half of the orchestra. Also at risk are the rising candelabra. It will be rather underwhelming if they come in from the sides or half are replaced with projections. Then we'll get told it's bigger and better and will be asked to pay more. We'll just have to wait and see when the show reopens and anyone who goes to see it will tell us on here. I hope that we will still see the chandelier rising from the stage and still being grand as it does, but the Angel is the set piece I'm praying will return, as well as the proscenium and candelabra. My guess/hope is that they will be reusing some of the sets used in the recent tour, but will refurbish/rebuild other bits of set like the Angel, chandelier, etc. So they would be saving some costs, whilst also not spending too much on refurbishing/rebuilding. But this could just be wishful thinking on my end. Realistically, the tour production is moving into Her Majesty's, that means the mechanics/automation from the touring show will move in. The point of the exercise here is to get the running costs down, so along with the orchestra being cut down, they'll be significantly cutting down the stage crew required to keep the show moving. To this extent, it's likely that non of the victorian gear will be used for set automation. There is little/no room to install new equipment sub-stage, and they aren't going to be manufacturing new automation gear specifically for the candelabra, so it's very likely we'll be seeing them move in sideways, not upwards. There won't be any new projections. As the point is to get running costs down, it's likely the set has been designed in a way that doesn't require as much maintenance and physical upkeep as the original. I predict the full Angel won't return. Possibly we'll see the Angel fixed on the proscenium, but I'd put money on the Phantom not being lowered down into the auditorium. They've got this horse manufactured that CM won't have gathering dust in his warehouse after just a few weeks on stage. Also, they did recycle some of the drapes from the 2012 production, such as the 'new' end of Act1 printed curtain:  |
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Post by scarpia on Nov 2, 2020 16:04:34 GMT
We'll just have to wait and see when the show reopens and anyone who goes to see it will tell us on here. I hope that we will still see the chandelier rising from the stage and still being grand as it does, but the Angel is the set piece I'm praying will return, as well as the proscenium and candelabra. My guess/hope is that they will be reusing some of the sets used in the recent tour, but will refurbish/rebuild other bits of set like the Angel, chandelier, etc. So they would be saving some costs, whilst also not spending too much on refurbishing/rebuilding. But this could just be wishful thinking on my end. Realistically, the tour production is moving into Her Majesty's, that means the mechanics/automation from the touring show will move in. The point of the exercise here is to get the running costs down, so along with the orchestra being cut down, they'll be significantly cutting down the stage crew required to keep the show moving. To this extent, it's likely that non of the victorian gear will be used for set automation. There is little/no room to install new equipment sub-stage, and they aren't going to be manufacturing new automation gear specifically for the candelabra, so it's very likely we'll be seeing them move in sideways, not upwards. There won't be any new projections. As the point is to get running costs down, it's likely the set has been designed in a way that doesn't require as much maintenance and physical upkeep as the original. I predict the full Angel won't return. Possibly we'll see the Angel fixed on the proscenium, but I'd put money on the Phantom not being lowered down into the auditorium. They've got this horse manufactured that CM won't have gathering dust in his warehouse after just a few weeks on stage. Also, they did recycle some of the drapes from the 2012 production, such as the 'new' end of Act1 printed curtain: Ah yes, almost forgot about that ugly flat that totally goes against the aesthetic of the show of having real, heavy drapery. I hope we get that gorgeous red curtain back. Here is the video where ALW talked about 'rethinking the scenery': twitter.com/OfficialALW/status/1304442074637504512 Seconds after saying it, he talks about iconic moments from the show, including those based on the Victorian machinery such as the candelabra rising (he mentions this specifically). So I really, really hope that this is brought back in some way, even if automated. It'll just be tragic if the original production is downsized to become inferior to Broadway. |
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Post by Oleanna on Nov 3, 2020 12:25:04 GMT
There’s a reason or an answer for most of the issues raised in this thread. ESPECIALLY the flats/cloths. Of course I couldn’t possibly comment, but I’ll just say wait and see...
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Post by richey on Nov 21, 2020 13:22:19 GMT
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Post by westendboy on Nov 21, 2020 14:26:02 GMT
Could still happen for us, hopefully... |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2020 15:38:50 GMT
So the touring production has just opened in Taiwan, only playing 22 performances yet they get the proper chandelier. The World Tour (now in Taiwan) is using the set from the original UK tour, so yes they got the chandelier. With that set in use they had to manufacture a new set for the 2020/21 UK Tour, which in turn gave CM the opportunity to streamline the show technically and reduce the running costs (e.g. replace the chandelier). |
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42ndBlvd
Swing
I'll be back where I was born to be
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Post by 42ndBlvd on Nov 21, 2020 20:54:05 GMT
So the touring production has just opened in Taiwan, only playing 22 performances yet they get the proper chandelier. The World Tour (now in Taiwan) is using the set from the original UK tour, so yes they got the chandelier. With that set in use they had to manufacture a new set for the 2020/21 UK Tour, which in turn gave CM the opportunity to streamline the show technically and reduce the running costs (e.g. replace the chandelier). It’s a new chandelier they’re using for the world tour. It’s sightly smaller and slimmer. There’s also no bulbs on the backside. |
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Post by 10642 on Nov 21, 2020 22:39:38 GMT
World Tour is produced by Really Useful group in association with local producers not Cammack Ltd so in a sense is an entirely separate production hence why its “streamlined” version of the brilliant original is different to the UK one seen earlier this year which was produced by cammack. It seems to stick closer to maria’s original designs with the only changes being the aforementioned slightly different shaped chandelier and the angel being on stage rather than hung from the proscenium
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