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Post by scarpia on May 7, 2022 11:56:15 GMT
Ultimately of all the London shows, it’s probably the one that relies most heavily on international tourism. Just a sample of one performance I know, but when I saw it pre-pandemic, there were lots of Americans, Chinese and Japanese tourists in. I’m assuming those tourists still aren’t back in London in their pre-pandemic numbers, so add that to the general lack of enthusiasm about the revamp, which might mean the Phans aren’t making as many repeat visits, and it’s no wonder it’s struggling. Would be tragic if it closed, given the reasons would be at least partly attributable to Cameron and ALW’s greed. Definitely the case that fans/Phans aren't going. Heard so many people (both people I know and people online) who went and then said they were done with it and would prefer not to go (which in part informed my own decision not to bother with it; whereas had they not done what they did, I would be going as much as possible at the moment!). I do think the international tourist thing will be the biggest reason, but the show did always rely on the loyal customers during the non-tourist months and they didn't come back. I think the producers knew that this would be an issue - otherwise ALW wouldn't have gone on and on about it being the 'brilliant original in its entirety' to offer (false) reassurance - and I really think they could have got away with it if there had been, say, 50% fewer cuts/changes to the show, but the cumulative effect seems to have been detrimental enough to put off domestic repeat audiences. |
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Post by og on May 7, 2022 12:26:04 GMT
Not to mention the effect word of mouth can have on sales, not just locals and regular, but with visitors and tourists word still propagates. Back in my very early days of London theatre going, when I used to visit ticket booths glossy-eyed I’d usually ask for genuine recommendations etc, and you could tell what that person had enjoyed and were personally recommending over what they were just selling. As people’s experiences of the no longer “brilliant original” spread and word that the cast function as adequate at best, the recommendations for the show disappear and with it do the sales.
Yes, I know, commission etc, but if your a visitor at a booth asking to see a “spectacle” now you’ll probably get recommended BTTF over TPOTO.
There’s still quite a negative reception on some of the social posts too which is also likely to play a factor.
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Post by ceebee on May 7, 2022 12:34:49 GMT
Tbh, ticket sales are dire for many shows at the moment. Think it will be a bumpy 12-18 months for many. Interesting that the recent CML discounts offered lots for Les Mis and few for Phantom.
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Post by anthony on May 7, 2022 14:51:57 GMT
Just can't see it closing. Obviously in the UK, there is no solid data to support this because we don't get capacity reports, but this is clearly a show which relies on tourism. If you look at the Broadway production, last week, it's average was 51% booked. Literally barely over half. Just prior to NY's first lockdown, the show was running 99.40% capacity. For year to NY's theatre closure, it ran a weekly average of 98.9%. For avoidance of doubt, most other long-running shows are doing well on Broadway (Lion King was 98% last week, Hamilton 100% of tickets sold last week, BoM, 93%, Wicked 82%)
If it is genuinely being considered for closure, I genuinely think ALW will keep it going for a little bit until tourism rebounds a bit more before making a decision... would be stupid otherwise, especially if the Broadway statistics are any way suggestive of the target audience here in London.
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Post by spathzthecat on May 7, 2022 20:51:53 GMT
I just picked a random day for the Lion King in June and it ain't even half full, I wonder if a fair few shows are going to go under?
When is the next cast change due for this show?
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Post by Mark on May 7, 2022 21:48:21 GMT
Look at any show in August and beyond and it’s probably not sold many seats yet. There’s a huge majority of the population who work shifts and won’t know their availability until a few weeks before. I get the impression that unless you are the hit show or the new show, very few people book in advance.
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Post by inthenose on May 11, 2022 17:00:42 GMT
www.theguardian.com/stage/2022/may/11/how-does-it-feel-to-sing-musical-showstopper-frozen-cabaret-dreamgirlsLucy St Louis: "It’s a captivating song. I hit a top E at the end and that feeling of soaring is so thrilling and euphoric. There’s a lot of running involved, too. After I go through the mirror in the dressing room, I run up a 16-step staircase on to a bridge. Then I run across the bridge, which is angled upwards. And I have to do all of that in just the first couple of chords! Then I take a second, breathe, and start singing this huge number. “In sleep he sang to me, in dreams he came.”
The audience has seen Christine cross the bridge plenty of times already. Normally, this is done with doubles, who make it look like she is everywhere. But I decided that, since there’s only one other person in the company that looks like me, I would do the bridge crossing myself each time. Representing black women and diversity in this show, I don’t want anyone who isn’t the same ethnicity representing me. Landing that top E after all that activity feels like a much more real part of the journey. It feels like such an achievement.
"There’s this magnetic pull between Christine and the Phantom throughout the song. I never feel like it’s a duet, though. It feels like a solo: the eye contact, the chemistry – we’re so connected it’s like we’re one voice. When I get out of the gondola to sing those final notes, the pull between us is so powerful. It’s like there’s a golden thread connecting us, as sound and colour come rippling out of me."Is she claiming she sings the whole song, including the final top note live?
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Post by richey on May 11, 2022 17:30:57 GMT
Just had an email through from LW Theatres with a special offer, reduced price tickets to celebrate the Queen's Platinum Jubilee.
Max price of £65 for weekday performances until 26th June (although when I looked there's no bookings past 16th June)
A genuine offer to celebrate the Jubilee or a convenient way to try and bump poor sales?
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Post by scarpia on May 11, 2022 22:15:25 GMT
www.theguardian.com/stage/2022/may/11/how-does-it-feel-to-sing-musical-showstopper-frozen-cabaret-dreamgirlsLucy St Louis: "It’s a captivating song. I hit a top E at the end and that feeling of soaring is so thrilling and euphoric. There’s a lot of running involved, too. After I go through the mirror in the dressing room, I run up a 16-step staircase on to a bridge. Then I run across the bridge, which is angled upwards. And I have to do all of that in just the first couple of chords! Then I take a second, breathe, and start singing this huge number. “In sleep he sang to me, in dreams he came.”
The audience has seen Christine cross the bridge plenty of times already. Normally, this is done with doubles, who make it look like she is everywhere. But I decided that, since there’s only one other person in the company that looks like me, I would do the bridge crossing myself each time. Representing black women and diversity in this show, I don’t want anyone who isn’t the same ethnicity representing me. Landing that top E after all that activity feels like a much more real part of the journey. It feels like such an achievement.
"There’s this magnetic pull between Christine and the Phantom throughout the song. I never feel like it’s a duet, though. It feels like a solo: the eye contact, the chemistry – we’re so connected it’s like we’re one voice. When I get out of the gondola to sing those final notes, the pull between us is so powerful. It’s like there’s a golden thread connecting us, as sound and colour come rippling out of me."Is she claiming she sings the whole song, including the final top note live? The hell? I don't know where to start with this, but it sounds like a load of hogwash. Given there have been (better) Christines who've wanted to sing the song live before and were not allowed, I can't see them allowing Lucy St Louis to do this (also, it's obvious from the amount of clips on YouTube that the song is still not sung live). I think the stuff about scrapping the doubles is unfortunate, too; it worked with the doubles plenty of times before even if ethnicities were different, and no-one in the audience noticed or cared. |
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Post by inthenose on May 11, 2022 22:59:30 GMT
I've just checked out a lot of bootlegs on YouTube and yeah, I am quite confident in saying the singing is still the same as it has always been. Ie. Pre-recorded - the whole track.
I can understand "preserving the magic" and it's a theatre white lie to use pre-recorded vocals on occasion - a deceit with a good reason, which doesn't harm the show or make the performance any less credible. And yet she talks about the use of doubles?!
A very strange quote from Lucy there.
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Post by scarpia on May 11, 2022 23:02:06 GMT
I've just checked out a lot of bootlegs on YouTube and yeah, I am quite confident in saying the singing is still the same as it has always been. Ie. Pre-recorded - the whole track. I can understand "preserving the magic" and it's a theatre white lie to use pre-recorded vocals on occasion - a deceit with a good reason, which doesn't harm the show or make the performance any less credible. And yet she talks about the use of doubles?! A very strange quote from Lucy there. And it's perfectly fine to employ that deceit in a theatre. Claiming you 'achieve' something that you don't really outside of the theatre in the press is something else entirely. |
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Post by sukhavati on May 11, 2022 23:56:34 GMT
www.theguardian.com/stage/2022/may/11/how-does-it-feel-to-sing-musical-showstopper-frozen-cabaret-dreamgirlsLucy St Louis: "It’s a captivating song. I hit a top E at the end and that feeling of soaring is so thrilling and euphoric. There’s a lot of running involved, too. After I go through the mirror in the dressing room, I run up a 16-step staircase on to a bridge. Then I run across the bridge, which is angled upwards. And I have to do all of that in just the first couple of chords! Then I take a second, breathe, and start singing this huge number. “In sleep he sang to me, in dreams he came.”
The audience has seen Christine cross the bridge plenty of times already. Normally, this is done with doubles, who make it look like she is everywhere. But I decided that, since there’s only one other person in the company that looks like me, I would do the bridge crossing myself each time. Representing black women and diversity in this show, I don’t want anyone who isn’t the same ethnicity representing me. Landing that top E after all that activity feels like a much more real part of the journey. It feels like such an achievement.
"There’s this magnetic pull between Christine and the Phantom throughout the song. I never feel like it’s a duet, though. It feels like a solo: the eye contact, the chemistry – we’re so connected it’s like we’re one voice. When I get out of the gondola to sing those final notes, the pull between us is so powerful. It’s like there’s a golden thread connecting us, as sound and colour come rippling out of me."Is she claiming she sings the whole song, including the final top note live? The hell? I don't know where to start with this, but it sounds like a load of hogwash. Given there have been (better) Christines who've wanted to sing the song live before and were not allowed, I can't see them allowing Lucy St Louis to do this (also, it's obvious from the amount of clips on YouTube that the song is still not sung live). I think the stuff about scrapping the doubles is unfortunate, too; it worked with the doubles plenty of times before even if ethnicities were different, and no-one in the audience noticed or cared. Is it presumptuous to think that Beatrice was hired, not only to be one of Lucy's understudies, but also to be the double on the travelator? |
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Post by danb on May 12, 2022 7:18:00 GMT
It isn’t presumptuous really, because if you look at most casts you can work out the understudies just from looking at the pictures in the program. Theatre is a shallow beast, and casting directors have a visual brief to work to. This maintains a consistent ‘picture’ on stage. The scene you’re talking about requires a double of Christine, so at the moment needs to be a woman of colour.
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Post by og on May 12, 2022 8:56:18 GMT
I was under the impression that when track was used singers didn't just rhubarb their way through it or mime it out silently.
Fairly sure that they will be singing along side the track, with their mic down, for a consistent, convincing performance.
There have been periods where tracked vocal is only used on the title song until the boat comes out under the bridge then cast on stage take over, it could be that this implementation is being used for LSL. Is anyone able to confirm or deny this from a reputable source ie cast/crew?
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Post by vickyg on May 12, 2022 9:20:01 GMT
I'm not really into the Phantom fandom but had always heard that the top E was recorded. As someone who doesn't have inside knowledge of the show I thought that even this was unfortunate. Do I understand from posts above that a whole track is pre recorded and not sung live? Imo that's unacceptable. This is supposed to be a live art form, not a Britney Spears concert.
When I read the quote from Lucy St Louis I believed her. If she's lying about what's being sung on stage that really is very poor indeed and disrespectful to the audience.
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Post by og on May 12, 2022 10:27:43 GMT
I'm not really into the Phantom fandom but had always heard that the top E was recorded. As someone who doesn't have inside knowledge of the show I thought that even this was unfortunate. Do I understand from posts above that a whole track is pre recorded and not sung live? Imo that's unacceptable. This is supposed to be a live art form, not a Britney Spears concert. When I read the quote from Lucy St Louis I believed her. If she's lying about what's being sung on stage that really is very poor indeed and disrespectful to the audience. Phantom had been using tracked vocals on the title song well before Britney's pop career was established. Originally it was tracked vocals until "in all your fantasies..." because of all the movement backstage, it's physically impossible to sing and not have the mics pickup the noise of movement. Art is not just one element, be it singing, dancing, acting etc, in theatre it's the sum of it's parts and in the case of this song the "art" is of it the production. They could have sung the whole track through, but that would have made for a very boring scene to watch in comparison. |
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Post by couldileaveyou on May 12, 2022 10:33:47 GMT
The title song, the Phantom's voice during Notes I & II, Seal My Fate Tonight and Why So Silent are all pre-recorded. Part of the overture too, with the orchestra playing along. If you're sitting close enough to the orchestra you'll see the conductor putting on and off a head set, when it's on it's for pre-recorded stuff. Before the post-covid re-opening this is what happened, and I doubt it changed afterwards
Rebecca Lock mentioned it during her days as Carlotta
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Post by notmymuse on May 12, 2022 12:46:28 GMT
I've just checked out a lot of bootlegs on YouTube and yeah, I am quite confident in saying the singing is still the same as it has always been. Ie. Pre-recorded - the whole track. I can understand "preserving the magic" and it's a theatre white lie to use pre-recorded vocals on occasion - a deceit with a good reason, which doesn't harm the show or make the performance any less credible. And yet she talks about the use of doubles?! A very strange quote from Lucy there. I doubt she gave this interview, looks like a written piece. The request probably was sent to the POTO press people who drafted something for her. I'm hoping she got to sign off on it but I doubt it's her own words. |
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Post by scarpia on May 12, 2022 13:03:36 GMT
I've just checked out a lot of bootlegs on YouTube and yeah, I am quite confident in saying the singing is still the same as it has always been. Ie. Pre-recorded - the whole track. I can understand "preserving the magic" and it's a theatre white lie to use pre-recorded vocals on occasion - a deceit with a good reason, which doesn't harm the show or make the performance any less credible. And yet she talks about the use of doubles?! A very strange quote from Lucy there. I doubt she gave this interview, looks like a written piece. The request probably was sent to the POTO press people who drafted something for her. I'm hoping she got to sign off on it but I doubt it's her own words. I don't think the Guardie would attribute it to her unless they thought it came from her. I'm not sure why you doubt she gave this interview either because the words she uses are very similar to a video chat between her and Emily Kouatchou (current Broadway Christine) that was made available online a month or two ago. The entire title song was pre-rec even in the Crawford days. It did not switch to 'live' when the boat came out, and does not now either. Some Christines have sung their cadenza live on top (I know Rachel Barrell, Rebecca Caine, and Gina Beck - incidentally my favourite London Christines - all did this from time to time). But given how thin the vocals seem to be in the current performance in London in that song, I doubt that is the case with LSL. |
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Post by inthenose on May 12, 2022 15:25:17 GMT
I was under the impression that when track was used singers didn't just rhubarb their way through it or mime it out silently. Fairly sure that they will be singing along side the track, with their mic down, for a consistent, convincing performance. There have been periods where tracked vocal is only used on the title song until the boat comes out under the bridge then cast on stage take over, it could be that this implementation is being used for LSL. Is anyone able to confirm or deny this from a reputable source ie cast/crew? Yes, I worked as crew on the West End production and still have many friends associated with the show (those that weren't sacked). The only part of the title track in London that is or has ever been performed live, is the Phantom's mic has a pick up to do "sing with me my angel of music" onwards. The reason for this is because it goes straight into "I have brought you" when he is at the organ. It isn't live and the actors can sing quietly if they wish, most just mouth it (anything to save the voice), and some were/are truly terrible at the miming of the final notes including "top E", Katie Knight-Adams springs immediately to mind. I just don't get why she lied about this. |
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Post by Jon on May 12, 2022 15:30:25 GMT
I always thought the title song not being live was common knowledge.
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Post by inthenose on May 12, 2022 15:32:26 GMT
The title song, the Phantom's voice during Notes I & II, Seal My Fate Tonight and Why So Silent are all pre-recorded. Part of the overture too, with the orchestra playing along. If you're sitting close enough to the orchestra you'll see the conductor putting on and off a head set, when it's on it's for pre-recorded stuff. Before the post-covid re-opening this is what happened, and I doubt it changed afterwards Rebecca Lock mentioned it during her days as Carlotta This is all correct, as is scarpia as usual! Bit harsh comparing it to a Britney Spears gig (and far better bands/singers cheat, you'd be surprised), many shows have used pre-recorded vocals for a variety of reasons... |
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2022 16:16:34 GMT
I always thought it was an open secret, but not publicly talked about/promoted.
I can't imagine the producers would be impressed with the current leads advertising the fact parts of the show aren't live. I expect its just a PR line from Lucy, what's expected.
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Post by inthenose on May 12, 2022 16:44:49 GMT
I always thought it was an open secret, but not publicly talked about/promoted. I can't imagine the producers would be impressed with the current leads advertising the fact parts of the show aren't live. I expect its just a PR line from Lucy, what's expected. Could also be taken as false advertising and self-aggrandizing behaviour on the flip side. It would've been better to say nothing about it at all. |
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Post by og on May 13, 2022 11:50:38 GMT
I'm sure I'd read different at some point in the past, from a veritable source not tumblr etc. but happy to concede.
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