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Post by inthenose on Oct 9, 2021 21:11:12 GMT
^^^^ exactly the same experience here, Dawn! He the blew the final note in MotN each time - plus was weak on the big moments on one occasion. I knew him a little at the time, and at the performance in question he had a shocking cold. It was just before Christmas and the understudy wasn't ready, so it was that or cancel. He was fantastic vocally generally but his acting and presence (he's a big boy!) were superb.
My worst were Kieran Brown (u/s), poor guy. Nigel Richards (s/b), Peter Jöback, Tim Howar off the top of my head. John Owen-Jones was also party to one of the flattest, dullest Monday night shows I've ever seen, too. Everyone was on auto-pilot, cues dropped, long-time cast forgot their lines. God knows what happened that night, but John Owen-Jones visibly didn't care that night either.
I'd really love a full list of every Phantom to have played the part in London, including understudies. I'd estimate since around 2001 I've seen maybe all but a dozen (normally covers who only did a handful of shows). I'm sure some good and bad ones will come back into my mind if refreshed!
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Post by Dawnstar on Oct 10, 2021 8:27:57 GMT
I'd really love a full list of every Phantom to have played the part in London, including understudies. I'd estimate since around 2001 I've seen maybe all but a dozen (normally covers who only did a handful of shows). I'm sure some good and bad ones will come back into my mind if refreshed! There used to be a website called London Musicals Online which was very useful for looking back at past casts for long-runners like Phantom & Les Mis but sadly it became defunct. When I checked my list of casts I've seen, before making my previous post, I was rather surprised at how many Phantoms I'd seen between when I first saw the show in 200 and I last saw it in 2016 so you must have seen shedloads of them over a 20 year period. |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Oct 10, 2021 9:18:43 GMT
I was looking at wiki to see if there’s a complete list. There isn’t, but I noticed Peter Polycarpou had played the Phantom. What was he like?
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Post by couldileaveyou on Oct 10, 2021 12:30:52 GMT
I was looking at wiki to see if there’s a complete list. There isn’t, but I noticed Peter Polycarpou had played the Phantom. What was he like? That was before I was born so I can't answer from experience, but I think that the general consensus among phans is that he was not bad but vocally he was not quite up to the demands of the role (you can hear the title song here). He talks briefly about the experience in this podcast (around 28 min), in which he says it wasn't a great experience and the role didn't suit him vocally – he ended up getting sacked. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2021 14:33:33 GMT
I was looking at wiki to see if there’s a complete list. There isn’t, but I noticed Peter Polycarpou had played the Phantom. What was he like? That was before I was born so I can't answer from experience, but I think that the general consensus among phans is that he was not bad but vocally he was not quite up to the demands of the role (you can hear the title song here). He talks briefly about the experience in this podcast (around 28 min), in which he says it wasn't a great experience and the role didn't suit him vocally – he ended up getting sacked. Phantom is not a show I've followed too closely, but have seen it many times over the years so am familiar with different casts, but not really with what's going on behind the scenes. But anecdotally, it doesn't sound like a great experience for a lot of actors. I'm aware people here have a strong association with the show and/or worked on it, so I could be wrong and don't mean to speak out of turn, but that's several Phantoms (and Phantom understudies) I've heard of being sacked, as well as a few Christines and Raouls speaking out about it being the worst job they've ever had. That said, until this year, it also had some of the longest serving cast members of any show, so they must have been happy to have stayed for that length of time. |
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Post by beardedmusicalfan on Oct 10, 2021 16:36:19 GMT
My worst were Kieran Brown (u/s), poor guy. Nigel Richards (s/b), Peter Jöback, Tim Howar off the top of my head. John Owen-Jones was also party to one of the flattest, dullest Monday night shows I've ever seen, too. Everyone was on auto-pilot, cues dropped, long-time cast forgot their lines. God knows what happened that night, but John Owen-Jones visibly didn't care that night either. I'd really love a full list of every Phantom to have played the part in London, including understudies. I'd estimate since around 2001 I've seen maybe all but a dozen (normally covers who only did a handful of shows). I'm sure some good and bad ones will come back into my mind if refreshed! Oh really? I thought Kieran Brown was really good, and Peter Jöback is one of my favorites. I can give you a full list of London principles and understudies. principles: Michael Crawford, Dave Willetts, Martin Smith, Peter Karrie, Peter Polycarpou, Ethan Freeman, Mark McKerracher, Grant Norman, Simon Bowman, Peter Cousens, Glyn Kerslake, Mike Sterling, Scott Davies, John Owen Jones, Earl Carpenter, Ramin Karimloo, David Shannon, Peter Jöback, Marcus Lovett, Geronimo Rauch, Ben Forster, Ben Lewis, Tim Howar, David Thaxton, Josh Piterman and Killian Donnelly. Standbys/understudies Steve Barton, James Patterson, Simon Tunkin, James Graeme, Mark Wynter, Christopher Blades, John Capes, Garth Bardsley, Richard Halton, Alan Vicary, Tim Morgan, Tomos Griffiths, Matt Camelle, Sam Hiller, Rohan Tickell, Nic Greenshields, Ian Pirrie, Nigel Richards, Stephen John Davis, Brian McCann, Simon Shorten, Jeremy Secomb, Kieran Brown, Luke McCall, Adam Robert-Lewis, James Gant, and there’s two other current understudies but I can’t remember their names off the top of my head. Some of the principles were standbys/understudies before becoming principle. |
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Post by scarpia on Oct 10, 2021 17:45:12 GMT
^^^^ exactly the same experience here, Dawn! He the blew the final note in MotN each time - plus was weak on the big moments on one occasion. I knew him a little at the time, and at the performance in question he had a shocking cold. It was just before Christmas and the understudy wasn't ready, so it was that or cancel. He was fantastic vocally generally but his acting and presence (he's a big boy!) were superb. Exactly the same experience with Greenshields. His vocal timbre was just right for the role but it's a shame those long notes couldn't be sustained. He was on a lot, I remember, during Karimloo's run; no-one seems to remember this but Ramin just to be off a LOT during his time in the role. The clips of Killian leave me cold and I think he's miscast. He was all right but not one of the greats. As he was one of the first I saw, I was more taken in by the show than by him. His Raoul was none other than John Barrowman. I notice on social media RUG is now falsely claiming the West End production is 35 years old, despite the poster outside the theatre and the programme stating that its first performance was this year on 27 July. Typical. |
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Post by anthony on Oct 12, 2021 16:27:22 GMT
I see your Nic Greensheilds and your Killian Donnellys and I give you David Shannon. Shannon was my first Raoul and I somewhat remember enjoying his Raoul. I then saw him as Phantom a few years later and honestly... Dreadful. I also have an irrational dislike for John Owen-Jones. I just don't get "it". He also somewhat looks like David Walliams in the mask... Seriously... tell me this is not David Walliams: i.ytimg.com/vi/HETyzlRZhUw/maxresdefault.jpg Shannon comes behind Uwe Kroeger for me. I like Kroeger (although he has destroyed his voice), but I think the problem is that he's quite... short. It almost makes some scenes look a bit comical for him as Phantom, bless him. I agree with Killian as a whole, though. But I'd actually extend it to most of the current class. All left me feeling a bit cold and it didn't seem to "work" for me. In terms of favourite Phantoms, I think Thomas Borchert and Earl Carpenter, although I really enjoyed Piterman's more aggressive Phantom. As a side note, the Phantom birthday speech clearly shows Holly Ann Hill on stage as Christine, but in the clips released of them singing Happy Birthday, they've kicked her off for Lucy St Louis. I assume that Hill performed because of St Louis' injury and they wanted the clip of her as Christine for press reasons? |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Oct 12, 2021 17:46:07 GMT
Who saw Crawford and Brightman and what were they like?
Also any anecdotes about Crawford being a complete diva such as summoning other cast members to his dressing room and giving them notes are always welcome 😀
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Post by scarpia on Oct 12, 2021 19:39:37 GMT
As a side note, the Phantom birthday speech clearly shows Holly Ann Hill on stage as Christine, but in the clips released of them singing Happy Birthday, they've kicked her off for Lucy St Louis. I assume that Hill performed because of St Louis' injury and they wanted the clip of her as Christine for press reasons? Might be because there are 2 videos doing the rounds: one from Saturday night (the actual anniversary) and one from last night. It appears they either forgot about the anniversary or couldn't plan something in time for 9 October, so - despite fans/Phans making (in some cases international) trips to see the Saturday performance - they had the 'main' celebration last night but it has to be one of the most hilariously tacky looking gala events I've ever seen! The 'celebs' are D-listers and TikTok influencers I've mostly never heard of who are then obliged in their terms of engagement to post #Phantom35 as a hashtag together with inane posts like these: The fans that attended on 9 October don't sound happy in the slightest. A lot of unhappy customers posting on social media about it. |
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Post by inthenose on Oct 12, 2021 19:47:28 GMT
Like I said a page or so back, their deafness is brutal. They really don't have a clue.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2021 20:01:26 GMT
Nigel Richard left of his own accord. By his own admittance it wasn't the right role for him. As other ex Phantoms have said, it's not really a role you can put your own take on.
He's currently Cogsworth in the B&TB tour.
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Post by scarpia on Oct 12, 2021 20:05:26 GMT
Like I said a page or so back, their deafness is brutal. They really don't have a clue. I thought RUG were getting better at dealing with things like this, but maybe not. It was a similarly chaotic story at the 10th anniversary all those years ago. They invalidated the tickets of fans who'd bought tickets to the anniversary performance and then gave them away to random D listers...and they didn't even invite the (now fired) orchestra to the afterparty! (The orchestra did go after they made their feelings known). |
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Post by Dawnstar on Oct 12, 2021 20:19:55 GMT
I see your Nic Greensheilds and your Killian Donnellys and I give you David Shannon. Shannon was my first Raoul and I somewhat remember enjoying his Raoul. I then saw him as Phantom a few years later and honestly... Dreadful. I really liked David Shannon as Valjean; he was the first I saw in that role. When he moved to Phantom the following year though I found him a bit disappointing. I didn't think he gave a bad performance, just an okay one, but compared to his Valjean okay was a bit disappointing.
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Post by distantcousin on Oct 12, 2021 20:55:29 GMT
The "go!.." feels so flat. To be fair I think Killian is miscast as Phantom. He is probably the second weakest I've seen ahead of Marcus Lovett but only just slightly behind Nic Greenshields.
I predicted he would be too lightweight an actor for the role.
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Post by distantcousin on Oct 12, 2021 21:01:13 GMT
Who saw Crawford and Brightman and what were they like? Also any anecdotes about Crawford being a complete diva such as summoning other cast members to his dressing room and giving them notes are always welcome 😀
"If Crawford wasn't happy, NOBODY was happy" - I remember an original female ensemble member saying this in an interview!
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Post by anthony on Oct 12, 2021 21:23:37 GMT
Nigel Richard left of his own accord. By his own admittance it wasn't the right role for him. As other ex Phantoms have said, it's not really a role you can put your own take on. He's currently Cogsworth in the B&TB tour. Find this interesting. I'd say most Phantom I've seen have put their own take on the role. Piterman played quite an aggressive Phantom, to the point I could almost imagine him striking Christine. Peter Karrie played Phantom like he was having a mental breakdown - shaking hands and jittering movements and all. I wonder if individual interpretations come down to which actors the Lord likes? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2021 22:55:02 GMT
Nigel Richard left of his own accord. By his own admittance it wasn't the right role for him. As other ex Phantoms have said, it's not really a role you can put your own take on. He's currently Cogsworth in the B&TB tour. Find this interesting. I'd say most Phantom I've seen have put their own take on the role. Piterman played quite an aggressive Phantom, to the point I could almost imagine him striking Christine. Peter Karrie played Phantom like he was having a mental breakdown - shaking hands and jittering movements and all. I wonder if individual interpretations come down to which actors the Lord likes? It's more in how the role is sung, which words must be sung, not spoken, how long notes should held for, and if you're understudying for someone of importance, how you have to be identical to them. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2021 22:58:45 GMT
If anyone doesn't know about it, look into the history of Colm Wilkinson and Rebecca Cain in the Canadian production. Yikes.
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Post by inthenose on Oct 12, 2021 23:01:23 GMT
Find this interesting. I'd say most Phantom I've seen have put their own take on the role. Piterman played quite an aggressive Phantom, to the point I could almost imagine him striking Christine. Peter Karrie played Phantom like he was having a mental breakdown - shaking hands and jittering movements and all. I wonder if individual interpretations come down to which actors the Lord likes? It's more in how the role is sung, which words must be sung, not spoken, how long notes should held for, and if you're understudying for someone of importance, how you have to be identical to them. Just on the second part, I saw Earl's first performance in Sept 2003 I believe, also the first show of Katie Knight-Adams and Ramin Karimloo. Listening back to a bootleg, I am astonished how vocally different he sounds. He was standby for John Owen-Jones and over the years, he almost morphed into JoJ vocally, while keeping his own character touches. His voice just got better and better. Then I've seen some outstanding standby's and understudies, particularly my favourite Phantom I've seen live Tomos Griffiths who played the part in August 2004 for a week. Completely vocally different to JoJ/Earl, but utterly amazing. |
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Post by dazzlair on Oct 13, 2021 10:05:04 GMT
Been to Phantom since 1989 and the cast that made the biggest and deepest impression on me was the Ramin Karimloo/Gina Beck/Simon Bailey trio. Real hold-your-breath moments during The Final Lair, real tears from Gina, believable emotions - everything lacking in the current cast, alas.
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Post by couldileaveyou on Oct 13, 2021 10:37:08 GMT
I think every now and then you read former Phantoms complaining about the little control they had over the character. There is this very interesting article from 1991* in which they describe this phenomenon and the struggles between the new Phantom Peter Polycarpou and the resident director Geoff Ferris:   It's an interesting read and I doubt things much improved in the next 20 years. David Shannon seemed to have similar issues with the resident director and I heard people say he was so much better in the final weeks of the run, when he could do whatever he wanted since it was too late to fire him. And you really gotta love it when they say that "no-one is paying £28" to see a new spin on the role – now you get the worst seat in the house for that! * found here X |
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Post by alwfan on Oct 13, 2021 18:31:39 GMT
Who saw Crawford and Brightman and what were they like? Also any anecdotes about Crawford being a complete diva such as summoning other cast members to his dressing room and giving them notes are always welcome 😀 Would have never been able to see them but how I wish it would have been possible. I used to chat online with someone many years ago, who had seen the show with them and said that they both amazing. But they also said that Sarah Brightman and Dave Willets were a much better suited to each other and were a perfect pair. I remember reading an interview with Dave Willets where he said SB was one of his favourites co-stars. Wish there was footage to be seen or heard or Sarah with a different Phantom. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2021 18:55:54 GMT
Thats an interesting read couldileaveyou thanks for sharing. Geoff Ferris doesn't sound like the best Resident Director, he really should know why a look or movement happens, otherwise you're just treating actors like mannequin's, and putting them into position when they should be, which is what continues to happen. It's also interesting that the article starts with a bit about Me and My Girl. I remember an interview with Emma Thompson where she said that playing Sally and having to be so happy every night led to depression. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2021 19:39:42 GMT
Been to Phantom since 1989 and the cast that made the biggest and deepest impression on me was the Ramin Karimloo/Gina Beck/Simon Bailey trio. Real hold-your-breath moments during The Final Lair, real tears from Gina, believable emotions - everything lacking in the current cast, alas. Completely agree, never seen this cast bettered and they should have done the Albert Hall show. It was electric. I love JOJ as Valjean but have never taken to his Phantom. Similarly I love Earl Carpenter in Les Mis but not his phantom. |
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