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Post by parsley1 on Aug 27, 2024 15:19:47 GMT
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Post by punxsutawney on Aug 27, 2024 15:43:40 GMT
Seems a bit of a presumptuous thread seeing as these shows that haven't even opened! How do you know these are "a pretty bad list"? Or that they don't "show some ambition"?
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Post by unseaworthy on Aug 27, 2024 16:05:37 GMT
So yes, a couple of them do sound underwhelming but A Face In The Crowd sounds very interesting to me and Fly More Than You Fall is written by the guy from Smash so that could be really great too!
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Post by danb on Aug 27, 2024 16:15:41 GMT
I think ‘A Face in the Crowd’ sounds a bit ‘Opening Night’.
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Post by parsley1 on Aug 27, 2024 16:29:41 GMT
Seems a bit of a presumptuous thread seeing as these shows that haven't even opened! How do you know these are "a pretty bad list"? Or that they don't "show some ambition"? Based on 1- the creative teams 2- the venue 3- the subject matter 4- the composer and lyricists 5- the duration of the runs
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Post by unseaworthy on Aug 27, 2024 16:36:31 GMT
I think ‘A Face in the Crowd’ sounds a bit ‘Opening Night’. If that is true, I can't wait for the theatreboard thread!
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Post by Someone in a tree on Aug 27, 2024 18:00:02 GMT
So many jukebox shows which makes me sad.
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Post by SilverFox on Aug 27, 2024 18:23:25 GMT
I believe this is true across the country, not just the West End (and the provinces often feed the West End). Finances are so tight now that very few venues can afford to take a risk, so rely on tunes people know before they go in, revivals, and tried and tested film adaptations (which IMHO) rarely work. The Lightening Thief sounds the most original, but the blurb makes me think of Xanadu (which I unexpectedly loved at Southwark). Boublil & Schönberg, Lloyd-Webber and Sondheim used to have fame and new works were eagerly anticipated. In 2024 I would be hard put to name one new writer(or team) in the Musicals field who could match the expectation in a new work.
As Isidor Straus says in Titanic "it's a different world now"
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Post by PineappleForYou on Aug 27, 2024 18:46:22 GMT
In fairness, I think a new show by Lin-Manuel Miranda or Tim Minchin in the West End would be anticipated these days and pull punters. Granted these two aren't from the UK but we've only really started to support our own writers in recent years.
It's a shame Benjamin Button isn't in the article as that's a brilliant new British musical that's opening this autumn.
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Post by theatreian on Aug 27, 2024 22:08:37 GMT
Some people forget theatre is a business. People's income and the world we live in means that producer's aren't able to take the same sort of risk. Touring theatre in particular has suffered as the number of full houses is pretty rare unless a massive familiar show.I know from my local theatre where I volunteer that it's very rare for shows to sell out unless it's a well known musical and even then it's not guaranteed.
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Post by Talisman on Aug 28, 2024 8:57:09 GMT
Fings ain’t what they used to be
Twas ever thus.
There are numerous sweeping statements on this site that condemn the current situation but these are personal opinions. One has to live in the current time and not in the past. Good old days do not return. With the wealth of cultural offerings in London there is so much to experience. Even on a limited budget there is more to see than is possible to go to beyond musicals if current offerings are not to ones taste.
I find it difficult to indulge in the negativity.
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Post by viserys on Aug 28, 2024 8:57:49 GMT
but we've only really started to support our own writers in recent years. Ummmm... writers like Stiles & Drewe have been around for 20 years now or more but never really "broke through" in a way that a Minchin or Miranda had with a truly big hit. What puzzles me is how "in the olden days" (tm) a composer would churn out a new musical every 2-3 years if not more often, but these days many come up with one musical and are then seen no more. "Everybody's talking about Jamie" was a huge success for example and had some proper bangers, why haven't seen another musical by the team? Why is there SuperYou, when the wonderful Eugenius is right there and had deserved far more than the revival in the tiny Turbine Theatre? That WOS list is really dispiriting - mostly jukebox stuff and more "small quirky musicals" that are fine and well when you live in London and can pop in for a few pounds, but not worth travelling for. And I for one am well and truly over the fad to turn every historical subject into some modern "yasss, kween!" pop musical filled with clichéd sassy chicks. Hamilton was an inspired fresh idea, Six somehow captured lightning in a bottle, but I'm done with it, they can keep their Cake and eat it.
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Post by marob on Aug 28, 2024 9:23:10 GMT
viserys Dan Gillespie-Sells wrote the songs for the Brokeback Mountain play at Soho Place.
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Post by SilverFox on Aug 28, 2024 10:15:36 GMT
Fings ain’t what they used to be Twas ever thus. There are numerous sweeping statements on this site that condemn the current situation but these are personal opinions. One has to live in the current time and not in the past. Good old days do not return. With the wealth of cultural offerings in London there is so much to experience. Even on a limited budget there is more to see than is possible to go to beyond musicals if current offerings are not to ones taste. I find it difficult to indulge in the negativity. I think that is a pretty sweeping statement of your own. A personal opinion of course. London may well have a wealth of cultural offerings, but across the rest of the country the picture is less than rosy. Both Arts and Local Council funding cuts have decimated the creation of productions in the regions. All the following examples are theatres that used to programme their own productions (8+ per year, usually playing for 3-4 weeks), often had a writer in residence, and rarely had space for tours. It is a random selection of the venues that I used to attend regularly, and the shows listed below (mostly plays) will be performed for more than 1 week, before March 2025 (7 months) and excludes Xmas shows:- Watford Palace - Two of Us, Bitch Boxer Nottingham Playhouse - Dear Evan Hansen (funded by tour), A Raisin in the Sun (co-production with several theatres) Oldham Coliseum - is closed but is slated to reopen end 2025
Hull Truck - Mary & the Hyenas, Of Mice & Men (co-production with several theatres) Birmingham Rep - Bright Places, Becoming Nancy Bolton Octagon - Brassed Off (co-production with several theatres), Stones in His Pockets, Animal Farm, Of Mice & Men (co-production with several theatres) I find it difficult to be positive about the prospects over the next year or two.
PineappleForYou "I think a new show by Lin-Manuel Miranda or Tim Minchin in the West End would be anticipated these days" - Yes I will give you them, but they have each only really had one big success. In The Heights and Groundhog Day (both of which I saw) are not in the same league as Hamilton and Matilda in terms of success (bums on seats).
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Post by Talisman on Aug 28, 2024 10:39:40 GMT
I agree100% However the original post references performances in the West End.
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Post by BVM on Aug 28, 2024 10:59:12 GMT
Very interesting thread.
Certainly I am guilty of lamenting the drop in production values over the last 25 odd years. I grew up with the mega musicals of the 80's and 90's and certainly do not see anywhere near that kind of ambition of staging anymore. Neither do I see the ambition of musical writing, with jukebox, tribute and film musicals absolutely dominating. Plus the latest trend of musicals for the kids.
But then, we live in a completely different world now. And while it is easy to look back with rose tinted glasses, I've really reached an acceptance that things have moved on and that era isn't coming back. And the audiences today don't seem to need the things I needed (well, loved) in the 80's/90's. My niece is increasingly obsessed with musical theatre and gets the same "feels" from what is out there now as I did when I was that age. So I guess does it really matter?
So whilst I feel sad that there isn't more new stuff I like, I am still more or less sated by decent revivals and by travelling to places the mega musicals still exist (Germany and Austria mainly).
Money no doubt plays a part with producers, particularly in the UK so conscious of spending the least amount possible for the biggest return. Rightly or wrongly you had times in the 80's/90's where it seemed producers were happy to spend more and more and risk more and more. But again that is a cultural change not limited to theatre.
As for having composers whose next big thing we eagerly await - I do also lament that this is no longer the case. And I think it's because music in musicals has been de-emphasised. So a lot of musicals these days do well in spite of (IMHO) very mediocre scores. The way musicals are written has also changed over the years. Nowadays a lot of musicals take a theme or a film or a script and get developed by writers before music is thought about - they then think, ok we need someone to write some tunes for this. Making the composer a hired help pretty much. Very different to the way composers would write a sung through musical. And they often ask pop composers for example. So people like Dan Gillespie-Sells isn't specifically a writer of musicals in the way ALW is. I can't think of many new musicals where I think wow that score was so amazing, I can't wait to see what that composer does next!
And so many of my friends see musicals in London these days, tell me they loved it, I ask what they thought of the music, they say it was fine! But they wouldn't rush out to get the OLC (if exists). Back in the day ALW could honestly have picked any topic and people would go cos they wanted to hear his music. And of course MT rarely troubles the charts these days and there are very few MT tracks in shows today we will hear in popular media in 10 years time. So that is another change.
Anyway - am rambling. But in summary whilst I lament the changes we've had, I accept that I am no longer the target audience and what's out there is clearly working for audiences as they are buying tickets.
(This is all about West End and Broadway. The dire state of (lack of) investment in regional theatre in the UK is a separate topic)
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Post by BVM on Aug 28, 2024 11:00:41 GMT
Fings ain’t what they used to be Twas ever thus. There are numerous sweeping statements on this site that condemn the current situation but these are personal opinions. One has to live in the current time and not in the past. Good old days do not return. With the wealth of cultural offerings in London there is so much to experience. Even on a limited budget there is more to see than is possible to go to beyond musicals if current offerings are not to ones taste. I find it difficult to indulge in the negativity. You make an excellent point here. Twas ever thus indeed. With most generations (me included) preferring what they grew up with. But you do as you say have to do your best to live in the current time!
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Post by SilverFox on Aug 28, 2024 11:24:37 GMT
I agree100% However the original post references performances in the West End. Yes, that is true. Sorry, as an ex Southerner, the 'wealth of London' always hits the chip on the shoulder!
BUT
London needs the training grounds of regional theatres - whilst most of the Drama Schools are London based, and the National Theatre Studio does sterling work, the future creatives have a hard time now that so many of the regionals, (who used to have the time to workshop, and work with new writers / directors / designers in PAID experience) have been forced to trim their output. This lack of experience will in turn affect London in the future, and not in a good way. This is probably just as true between Broadway and the Rust Belt, however, it is not possible to completely divorce one from the other.
ALW and Cameron both seem to recognise this with charitable donations supporting training and development, but a clearer arts strategy, less political interference, and long-term funding is required to ensure continued success.
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Post by Talisman on Aug 28, 2024 11:40:20 GMT
Again I fully agree
My love of a very wide range of theatre developed by attending small theatres in the North. I fully appreciate the lack of variety and availability which is as you say is damaging to all.
Ironically I am typing this in the National theatre where the circle is closed and I have got an expensive ticket for £4 .50!
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Post by annette on Aug 29, 2024 3:17:33 GMT
I think ‘A Face in the Crowd’ sounds a bit ‘Opening Night’. What is it about ‘A Face in the Crowd’ that you think sounds a bit ‘Opening Night.The only obvious similarity I can see is that both have had scores written by pop musicians? AFITC has been based on a rather good story that I’ve seen on film and for this production is adapted by the excellent American writer Sarah Ruehl. It will open at a theatre known for new work. OP was based on an incomprehensible film which was then taken over for stage by a wildly self-indulgent co-writer/director. It opened in a big Shaftesbury Ave theatre where expectations are much higher and also had to deal with the press baggage Sheridan Smith brought with her. I have only heard one song from AFITC which I thought was beautiful, isthere more to be heard or a trailer out yet? It seems to be very low key publicity wise up to now. Having seen the movie,I was surprised that Ramin oKarimloo has been cast in the lead. He’s definitely not the obvious choice, but I’m very much looking forward to seeing what he does with the role shortly after it opens. it seems a shame to write it off by comparing it to a terribly misjudged mess before it’s even opened.
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Post by Phantom of London on Aug 29, 2024 17:12:20 GMT
The What’s on Stage list I suspect of being paid content, as there is no mention of Oliver and The Devil Wears Prada. So 2 of the shows haven’t been mentioned, why would they do that?
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