Quality of Shows

Seems a bit of a presumptuous thread seeing as these shows that haven't even opened! How do you know these are "a pretty bad list"? Or that they don't "show some ambition"?

I think ‘A Face in the Crowd’ sounds a bit ‘Opening Night’.

If that is true, I can't wait for the theatreboard thread!

I believe this is true across the country, not just the West End (and the provinces often feed the West End). Finances are so tight now that very few venues can afford to take a risk, so rely on tunes people know before they go in, revivals, and tried and tested film adaptations (which IMHO) rarely work. The Lightening Thief sounds the most original, but the blurb makes me think of Xanadu (which I unexpectedly loved at Southwark). Boublil & Schönberg, Lloyd-Webber and Sondheim used to have fame and new works were eagerly anticipated. In 2024 I would be hard put to name one new writer(or team) in the Musicals field who could match the expectation in a new work.

As Isidor Straus says in Titanic "it's a different world now"

Some people forget theatre is a business. People's income and the world we live in means that producer's aren't able to take the same sort of risk. Touring theatre in particular has suffered as the number of full houses is pretty rare unless a massive familiar show.I know from my local theatre where I volunteer that it's very rare for shows to sell out unless it's a well known musical and even then it's not guaranteed.

Ummmm... writers like Stiles & Drewe have been around for 20 years now or more but never really "broke through" in a way that a Minchin or Miranda had with a truly big hit.

What puzzles me is how "in the olden days" (tm) a composer would churn out a new musical every 2-3 years if not more often, but these days many come up with one musical and are then seen no more. "Everybody's talking about Jamie" was a huge success for example and had some proper bangers, why haven't seen another musical by the team? Why is there SuperYou, when the wonderful Eugenius is right there and had deserved far more than the revival in the tiny Turbine Theatre?

That WOS list is really dispiriting - mostly jukebox stuff and more "small quirky musicals" that are fine and well when you live in London and can pop in for a few pounds, but not worth travelling for. And I for one am well and truly over the fad to turn every historical subject into some modern "yasss, kween!" pop musical filled with clichéd sassy chicks. Hamilton was an inspired fresh idea, Six somehow captured lightning in a bottle, but I'm done with it, they can keep their Cake and eat it.

PineappleForYou "I think a new show by Lin-Manuel Miranda or Tim Minchin in the West End would be anticipated these days" - Yes I will give you them, but they have each only really had one big success. In The Heights and Groundhog Day (both of which I saw) are not in the same league as Hamilton and Matilda in terms of success (bums on seats).

Very interesting thread.

Certainly I am guilty of lamenting the drop in production values over the last 25 odd years. I grew up with the mega musicals of the 80's and 90's and certainly do not see anywhere near that kind of ambition of staging anymore. Neither do I see the ambition of musical writing, with jukebox, tribute and film musicals absolutely dominating. Plus the latest trend of musicals for the kids.

But then, we live in a completely different world now. And while it is easy to look back with rose tinted glasses, I've really reached an acceptance that things have moved on and that era isn't coming back. And the audiences today don't seem to need the things I needed (well, loved) in the 80's/90's. My niece is increasingly obsessed with musical theatre and gets the same "feels" from what is out there now as I did when I was that age. So I guess does it really matter?

So whilst I feel sad that there isn't more new stuff I like, I am still more or less sated by decent revivals and by travelling to places the mega musicals still exist (Germany and Austria mainly).

Money no doubt plays a part with producers, particularly in the UK so conscious of spending the least amount possible for the biggest return. Rightly or wrongly you had times in the 80's/90's where it seemed producers were happy to spend more and more and risk more and more. But again that is a cultural change not limited to theatre.

As for having composers whose next big thing we eagerly await - I do also lament that this is no longer the case. And I think it's because music in musicals has been de-emphasised. So a lot of musicals these days do well in spite of (IMHO) very mediocre scores. The way musicals are written has also changed over the years. Nowadays a lot of musicals take a theme or a film or a script and get developed by writers before music is thought about - they then think, ok we need someone to write some tunes for this. Making the composer a hired help pretty much. Very different to the way composers would write a sung through musical. And they often ask pop composers for example. So people like Dan Gillespie-Sells isn't specifically a writer of musicals in the way ALW is. I can't think of many new musicals where I think wow that score was so amazing, I can't wait to see what that composer does next!

And so many of my friends see musicals in London these days, tell me they loved it, I ask what they thought of the music, they say it was fine! But they wouldn't rush out to get the OLC (if exists). Back in the day ALW could honestly have picked any topic and people would go cos they wanted to hear his music. And of course MT rarely troubles the charts these days and there are very few MT tracks in shows today we will hear in popular media in 10 years time. So that is another change.

Anyway - am rambling. But in summary whilst I lament the changes we've had, I accept that I am no longer the target audience and what's out there is clearly working for audiences as they are buying tickets.

(This is all about West End and Broadway. The dire state of (lack of) investment in regional theatre in the UK is a separate topic)

What is it about ‘A Face in the Crowd’ that you think sounds a bit ‘Opening Night.The only obvious similarity I can see is that both have had scores written by pop musicians?

AFITC has been based on a rather good story that I’ve seen on film and for this production is adapted by the excellent American writer Sarah Ruehl. It will open at a theatre known for new work.

OP was based on an incomprehensible film which was then taken over for stage by a wildly self-indulgent co-writer/director. It opened in a big Shaftesbury Ave theatre where expectations are much higher and also had to deal with the press baggage Sheridan Smith brought with her.

I have only heard one song from AFITC which I thought was beautiful, isthere more to be heard or a trailer out yet? It seems to be
very low key publicity wise up to now.

Having seen the movie,I was surprised that Ramin oKarimloo has been cast in the lead. He’s definitely not the obvious choice, but I’m very much looking forward to seeing what he does with the role shortly after it opens.

it seems a shame to write it off by comparing it to a terribly misjudged mess before it’s even opened.