Toxic Fandom

In my experience, it's often fans of specific big name stars appearing in plays/musicals that tend to be the most toxic, at least in terms of audience behaviour. An example I can think of off the top of my head are Sheridan Smith's fans during the run of 'Shirley Valentine' at the Duke of York's last year. This isn't Sheridan's fault at all (I've heard she's rather nice IRL), but the types of people she attracts can be rather irritable to say the least. They would take their phones out to film her onstage, even when there were signs around the theatre, specifically stating that this was prohibited. Not to mention the sense of entitlement they bring in, which lead to their abysmal treatment of the FOH staff. Although, I believe this was most likely due to a mixture of two things that are causing this ongoing issue with bad audience behaviour and toxic fandoms;

1). The fact that the types of people seeing these are those who don't go and watch theatre often, so they come in with this sort of "Netflix mindset", which has been an ongoing issue since lockdown ended and they treat a live performance like they're watching a film, or TV programme.

2). The ridculously high ticket prices brings in this sense of entitlement, which I mentioned above, often from people who are expecting a 5* service from these theatres and when they don't receive this, they take it out on those poor FOH staff members, who are paid minimum wage and don't deserve to be treated like trash by these types of people.

I'm not saying that this kind of thing is happening for all West End shows, but it's a rising trend I've been noticing and find it worrying. I, however, blame all this on the producers who sell tickets at these rates and market these shows in a way that leads to certain people coming in and behave in an unpleasant manner. Not to mention casting celebrities in plays, even if they can't even act at all. *cough* Lily Allan *cough*

I understand that in a post-Covid world, theatres need to do this to keep afloat and, as much as we may all groan, this strategy is working. Also, I freely admit that I'm guilty in booking to see shows with big actors I like, or am curious to see, so I'm contributing to it in a way. And to be fair, there have been a number of star led shows I have seen that have been excellent, such as 'Dr. Semmelweis' with Mark Rylance and 'An Enemy of the People' with Matt Smith. But it does make me a bit sad and worried that new and upcoming talent aren't being given enough opportunities to lead, or create new West End productions, because producers don't want to take financial risks. Shows like 'Operation Mincemeat' are outliers in the current theatre economy, whilst popular long-runners, revivals and star led productions seem to be dominating Theatreland at the moment.

I would say however, that this strategy is starting to show some signs of slowing down. A recent example would be the early closure of 'Opening Night', which also starred Sheridan Smith, due to mixed-to-negative critic reviews, resulting in low ticket sales. The same applies to last year's revival of 'Aspects of Love', which had Michael Ball of all people, but that wasn't enough to keep it running until it's intended close date either, which if you ask me, shows that star power won't always keep a show afloat and that it's not something producers can rely on if a production is poorly received.

But I suppose only time will tell really. Maybe we'll soon start to see less star led shows and more new talent on the London stage, along with audience behaviour improving? Or producers will double down on this current strategy for years to come, which leads to audience behaviour potentially worsening? Who knows really?

Apologies for going on this rather long tangent!

The internet, especially social media, has definitely been a massive game changer when it comes to fandoms.

Fandoms are definitely nothing new, even in my early days (late 80s, early 90s) there was a rather toxic fandom around popular shows here in Germany and Austria. Fans that would treat the stage door as their regular meeting point, formed parasocial relationships with the performers (even if there was no word for it yet) and acted as "gatekeepers". Vienna had cheap standing room tickets that went on sale when the box office opened, so fans would start queuing for them early in the morning, which was a predecessor to the day seats/rush lines. But of course you had to be somewhat "tuned into" that scene to even know it existed. I was at the VERY fringes of it (I found it weird and obsessive even back then), but I knew that it mostly ran through personal meetings at stage doors and regular snail mail letters. There were countless "fanclubs" because so many fans were beset by the notion that they wanted to be "fan no.1" for someone and act at their spokesperson. Some stories I heard especially around the Tanz der Vampire fandom made my skin crawl (what is it with teenage girls and vampires?!)

Nowadays teenagers who might only go with their families can follow everything on the internet and on social media and get the sense that hanging around stage doors is a perfectly normal part of the show, so they want to do this, too and it swells. And fans who would back then only be able to be a small part of things by exchanging letters with other fans and writing actual fan mail to performers they liked, can now easily "organize" with others and drift deeper and deeper into toxic fandom thanks to the possibilities of the internet. And of course social media keeps upping the stakes because everyone wants to be more "special" than the others.

Then come the factors sph mentions: It's much easier to travel now than it used to be, so repeat performances are generally easier to achieve. And today's narcissism means that people feel incredibly entitled and want their own needs fulfilled. Funny enough it's been on the decline in Germany from all I know - mostly because there are virtually no cheap seats available for the big musicals that make repeat visits easy for fans (the way it used to be for us back then with 50% off student discounts for reasonable seats and those standing room tickets). I met a performer at a stage door last year (he asked me to, LOL!) and it was virtually deserted.

Anyway... all this said... I feel there's a difference between that truly toxic fandom, the people that see the same shows 50-100 times, constantly visit stage doors and do that weird gatekeeping thing around favourite performers, and those people who are now venting about the new version of Starlight Express. Sure, it's not great to flood social media with negative comments (or trolling the poll here), but I think this is more a strange way of coping with their own dismay/frustration - and sadly today's way of coping often means to immediately shout every emotion out to the world via social media instead of spending a few days mulling things to put them into words and write a longer thoughtful post then.

I think these are two more valid points in this debate: "Back in the days" (tm) fans might have disliked performers, but they might have said so quietly to someone else in private conversation and that was that. God knows I have a list of performers I want to avoid at all costs because they rubbed me the wrong way in some way or other. But today's social media means that these poor people are publicly hauled over the coals, torn apart and piled on. Which must be hard for anyone, whether budding talent or stalwart.

And I feel there is a general attitude of older fans to look down on new stuff simply because times have changed. Again, when I was young and just starting out, the "mega musicals" of the day were my go-to-point and I was absolutely stunned that there were older people slagging them off. Only now, when I can see the development of musical theatre across the decades, can I understand that those mostly stationary shows with their many overwrought ballads or indeed crazy spectacles like Starlight Express were absolutely NOT what older people (who had grown up with the "Golden Age" musicals with their big choreographies and upbeat songs) were expecting from musicals. Similarly, now those of my age group who were weaned on the mega musicals bemoan so many of the current popular shows aimed at young people without realizing (I think) that they are simply not the target group, that we are now the fossils clinging to music styles popular 40 years ago (!). I struggled with this for quite some time, WANTING to feel like I had a foothold in modern musicals and was open to new things. But eventually I gave in and now I let many of the new shows just pass me by and instead rejoice in some classic revival or spontaneously book a trip a two-hour flight away to see an all-time-favourite musical again while I can.

So... yea, I guess it would be better for them to accept that musical theatre has moved on and have the grace to simply say that this new Starlight Express is not for them. Time and thought may get them there.

Blimey, that's crazy. This feels kinda Baby Reindeer.

No names please.

Loads of great points above :-)

I do agree that the toxic fandoms and the current Starlight complaining are two different things.

The toxic fandoms around the likes of Wicked, Six, Heathers, &Juliet are indeed based on phenomena we've seen for decades but have had their bad-ness and and problematic-ness exponentially increased by social media. The meeting of cast, stage dooring etc etc, they all see their mates doing it and wanna be in on the gang.

You also have the issue that (as a sweeping generalisation) actors love adulation. So can sometimes encourage this behaviour only to then feel the need to publicly "call things out" when it inevitably tips over the line (CHF, Layton Williams). Though in fairness others remain very humble and almost bemused by the attention and aren't actually on social media encouraging things (Jordan Luke Gage).

But it's certainly an odd world and very typical of our times. Luckily (for me) they don't tend to be the kind of shows I go for. Though I did feel uncomfortable sitting in the Heathers audience and it may have affected my enjoyment.

The Starlight Express negativity however isn't really coming from the fandom. It's mainly coming from Facebook Huns/casual fans who saw the show once or twice in the 80's and 90's, haven't really followed it's development since then and are now coming face to face with the fact it's a different show. It's annoying for sure. And as stated above pretty rude to the performers. But it's inevitable on sites like Facebook and is pretty typical of the discourse on most things on there so am not surprised. One would hope if and when they actually SEE they show they may feel differently but who knows.

I am on the peripheries of Starlight "fandom" - it generally isn't my thing but it's my fave show so am in a lot of groups. Would have zero interest in meeting the actors etc though or ever being within breath of a stage door! But as a fandom we are very used to change! So while there is nostalgia and sadness of what's been lost, there is generally openness and understanding that it's a new version to be judged on it's own merits. And I have to say out of all the fandoms I have vaguely interacted with over the years, the Starlight ones tend to be a very tolerant, down to earth and accepting bunch! (I do always have to take the Phans reactions to changes as mildly amusing when you compare Troubadour today to AV 1984 and all that's been presented in the intervening 40 years!)

I am going to call out my own fandom - I run a fan community for Blood Brothers on Facebook.

A post was very specific - 'Who have you missed seeing as Mrs J, but you would love to.'. Nothing about best or worst.

A few people took that as an invite to be very rude about certain actresses.

And they did not take it well when their comments were removed.

The reason I will not allow negative comments or reviews is because I am very lucky to have cast past and present interacting on my page, and it should be a safe space for everyone.

'Freedom of speech' and 'free country' were uttered - that does not give you a free ticket to being just plain rude.

This is a sweeping generalisation but it does seem that some of these fans have some sort of mental illness.

I would like to clarify that I'm not tarring people who have mental illnesses with the same brush but I do think that going to extremes such as the examples given above is very unhealthy.

I know you didn't, I was jesting. 

I agree with you.