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Post by marob on Jul 5, 2024 6:41:38 GMT
Doesn’t have the optimistic feel of Blair’s or Obama’s wins (which they arguably failed to live up to), but hopeful they’ll start to right the ship.
Can’t help laughing at Jonathan Ashworth losing his seat. Can’t stand his performative outrage every time he turns up on TV. Though wouldn’t be surprised if he turned up on Strictly, with Fabticant in the jungle.
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Post by talkingheads on Jul 5, 2024 6:47:11 GMT
Waking up this morning I could cry I'm so happy. I've had a knot in my stomach for years from despising the Tory Government. That's all gone now. I'm not for a moment saying Labour are perfect, but for the first time in fourteen years, I feel hope.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Jul 5, 2024 7:07:02 GMT
Hope can be a dangerous thing
Obama promised Hope and was a damp squib
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Post by ceebee on Jul 5, 2024 7:33:41 GMT
Labour win landslide with a low share of vote. Conservatives achieved their lowest vote share since electoral reform way back in the 1800s. Reform split the vote - had it been PR, they would have nearly 100 seats. I commend Starmer for reinventing the Labour party and making them the lesser of two evils and also commend Sunak, Truss, Johnson, May, Cameron for making the Tories wholly unpalatable (and unrecognisable). I also commend Farage for his tactical nous in forcing much needed change but am not sure there is a long term future for Reform. The greatest result, personally, is seeing the abhorrent SNP obliterated. Perhaps we can now remove the SNP graffiti and random Saltires that pollute some areas of natural beauty in the Highlands and Islands.
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Post by talkingheads on Jul 5, 2024 8:26:48 GMT
Why is the media harping on about Reform 4 seats? It's pathetic, Green got 4 seats, they aren't even getting mentioned.
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Post by Jan on Jul 5, 2024 8:36:05 GMT
Why is the media harping on about Reform 4 seats? It's pathetic, Green got 4 seats, they aren't even getting mentioned. Because Reform got a bigger vote share (14.3%) than the LibDems (12.2%) and double the vote share of the Greens (6.8%). And of course Labour under Starmer (33.8%) has got a much lower vote share than Labour under Corbyn (40.0%) at the last election. Green supporters should be glad Farage is getting lots of exposure because he'll be pushing for PR in future elections. |
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jul 5, 2024 8:47:14 GMT
Can I be the first one to say …. The bloody Labour government
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jul 5, 2024 8:48:22 GMT
Why is the media harping on about Reform 4 seats? It's pathetic, Green got 4 seats, they aren't even getting mentioned. Because Reform got a bigger vote share (14.3%) than the LibDems (12.2%) and double the vote share of the Greens (6.8%). And of course Labour under Starmer (33.8%) has got a much lower vote share than Labour under Corbyn (40.0%) at the last election. Green supporters should be glad Farage is getting lots of exposure because he'll be pushing for PR in future elections. Lib Dem’s not talking about PR now they have finally worked out how first past the post works |
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Post by Jan on Jul 5, 2024 8:49:14 GMT
Hope can be a dangerous thing Obama promised Hope and was a damp squib Well I guess there are plenty here who don't remember past Labour governments so we should allow them their brief moment of hope. |
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jul 5, 2024 8:51:13 GMT
Why is the media harping on about Reform 4 seats? It's pathetic, Green got 4 seats, they aren't even getting mentioned. Because Reform got a bigger vote share (14.3%) than the LibDems (12.2%) and double the vote share of the Greens (6.8%). And of course Labour under Starmer (33.8%) has got a much lower vote share than Labour under Corbyn (40.0%) at the last election. Green supporters should be glad Farage is getting lots of exposure because he'll be pushing for PR in future elections. No one mentioning the fall of vote share for Labour. I thought to myself, I thought I bet Jan remembers |
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Post by oxfordsimon on Jul 5, 2024 8:51:36 GMT
Of course people should hope. It is natural. But it is not a good political platform as you are always going to fail to deliver as everyone has their own hopes and no politician can satisfy that.
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Post by Jan on Jul 5, 2024 8:53:03 GMT
Because Reform got a bigger vote share (14.3%) than the LibDems (12.2%) and double the vote share of the Greens (6.8%). And of course Labour under Starmer (33.8%) has got a much lower vote share than Labour under Corbyn (40.0%) at the last election. Green supporters should be glad Farage is getting lots of exposure because he'll be pushing for PR in future elections. Lib Dem’s not talking about PR now they have finally worked out how first past the post works Their seat share approximates their vote share better than the other parties so superficially they should still push PR. What they haven't worked out that as a FPTP tactical voting everyones-second-choice option they'd do far less well under PR because people would just vote for their first choice - they'd lose loads of votes to the Greens for example. |
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Post by crowblack on Jul 5, 2024 8:53:51 GMT
Scenes at Jess Phillips' announcement were grisly - a reminder that Galloway's party (then called 'Respect') first emerged weaponising misogyny, racism, anti-semitism and even her vegetarianism against Oona King.
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Post by Jan on Jul 5, 2024 8:58:43 GMT
Because Reform got a bigger vote share (14.3%) than the LibDems (12.2%) and double the vote share of the Greens (6.8%). And of course Labour under Starmer (33.8%) has got a much lower vote share than Labour under Corbyn (40.0%) at the last election. Green supporters should be glad Farage is getting lots of exposure because he'll be pushing for PR in future elections. No one mentioning the fall of vote share for Labour. I thought to myself, I thought I bet Jan remembers Did you also think I'd mention the quite dramatic fall in the vote Starmer got in his own constituency compared to the last election ? 48.9% this time and 64.5% last time ? |
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jul 5, 2024 8:59:03 GMT
Waking up this morning I could cry I'm so happy. I've had a knot in my stomach for years from despising the Tory Government. That's all gone now. I'm not for a moment saying Labour are perfect, but for the first time in fourteen years, I feel hope. Give it a day or two |
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Post by Jan on Jul 5, 2024 9:02:33 GMT
Scenes at Jess Phillips' announcement were grisly - a reminder that Galloway's party (then called 'Respect') first emerged weaponising misogyny, racism, anti-semitism and even her vegetarianism against Oona King. Galloway is a social conservative way to the right of any other party in UK except maybe elements of the DUP. He is 100% opposed to abortion for example. His overall offering is aimed at a section of Muslim voters. Under PR he'd have a decent number of MPs, around 10-20 maybe. |
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jul 5, 2024 9:03:13 GMT
No one mentioning the fall of vote share for Labour. I thought to myself, I thought I bet Jan remembers Did you also think I'd mention the quite dramatic fall in the vote Starmer got in his own constituency compared to the last election ? 48.9% this time and 64.5% last time ? When we are so opposed politically on either end of the spectrum I do feel we are bedfellows today. Started Wednesday with Cavs amazing win followed by the obviously less important election and opposition to a PM who has a super landslide with that vote |
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jul 5, 2024 9:05:39 GMT
Scenes at Jess Phillips' announcement were grisly - a reminder that Galloway's party (then called 'Respect') first emerged weaponising misogyny, racism, anti-semitism and even her vegetarianism against Oona King. Galloway is a social conservative way to the right of any other party in UK except maybe elements of the DUP. He is opposed to abortion for example. His overall offering is aimed at a section of Muslim voters. Under PR he'd have a decent number of MPs, around 10-20 maybe. Galloway come along since he was one of the three left wing Scottish thinkers of the party with Robin Cook and Gordon Brown |
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Post by Jan on Jul 5, 2024 9:24:20 GMT
Did you also think I'd mention the quite dramatic fall in the vote Starmer got in his own constituency compared to the last election ? 48.9% this time and 64.5% last time ? When we are so opposed politically on either end of the spectrum I do feel we are bedfellows today. Started Wednesday with Cavs amazing win followed by the obviously less important election and opposition to a PM who has a super landslide with that vote Yes. Cav. How about that- it was great wasn't it. ITV had a great interview with him immediately afterwards. The questioner said "That moment Mark. There's no 35 wins. There's just this race, there's just that one moment" and he replied: "Oh all the time, it's how the Tour de France is. You sprint. You go as hard as you can till you get to the finish line. And maybe your life changes if you cross that line first. Maybe it doesn't if you don't. That's the nature of this race and that's what makes it so beautiful". |
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Post by Jan on Jul 5, 2024 9:52:31 GMT
When we are so opposed politically on either end of the spectrum I do feel we are bedfellows today. Started Wednesday with Cavs amazing win followed by the obviously less important election and opposition to a PM who has a super landslide with that vote Yes. Cav. How about that- it was great wasn't it. ITV had a great interview with him immediately afterwards. The questioner said "That moment Mark. There's no 35 wins. There's just this race, there's just that one moment" and he replied: "Oh all the time, it's how the Tour de France is. You sprint. You go as hard as you can till you get to the finish line. And maybe your life changes if you cross that line first. Maybe it doesn't if you don't. That's the nature of this race and that's what makes it so beautiful". There was another striking moment. Cav went over to Pogacar - 12 stage wins - who was warming down on his bike. Pogacar got off the bike and hugged Cav and congratulated him on his record. As they parted Cav grabbed Pogacar's face over his mouth and chin and pushed it back and said "Don't beat it". And Pogacar said "Oh don't worry, I won't". But it was a real alpha male moment, in what circumstances could you even imagine even touching someone's face like that in public ? it was straight out of a David Attenborough film on a silverback gorilla. |
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Post by jojo on Jul 5, 2024 9:53:44 GMT
Galloway's an narcissist and a chancer. I'm sure he believes some of what he says, but his views are shaped by him seeing the world as an anti-establishment saviour type and he's not averse to a bit of opportunistic posturing. He's got a history of doing well in by-elections where he can maximise the protest vote amongst those with limited experience of him as a working MP. He doesn't do so well in regular elections. Lib Dem’s not talking about PR now they have finally worked out how first past the post works Their seat share approximates their vote share better than the other parties so superficially they should still push PR. What they haven't worked out that as a FPTP tactical voting everyones-second-choice option they'd do far less well under PR because people would just vote for their first choice - they'd lose loads of votes to the Greens for example. I thought it interesting that the BBC were asking Ed if he would abandon support for FPTP seeing as "FPTP worked for the LibDems this time." In reality the LibDems seat share is still a bit down on their vote share, and it was only the aggressive targeting of some areas, while ignoring the electorate in others, that allowed that to happen. Similarly Labour worked the system better in this election than last time around. Taking an approach to campaigning that maximised seats returned, even if it meant sacrificing total vote share was the smart thing to do. There will reasonably be questions about vote share in different parts of the country, but I don't think Starmer winning with a smaller majority that's still more than double the vote of his nearest rival is as significant as some people want it to be. A party leader wasting their party's time and resources to focus on their own seat while losing at the national scale is not impressive. You might be right and it could be that given genuine choice that many who voted LibDem would reallocate their vote, but in most seats it's the Conservatives and Labour that are picking up the 'least worst option' vote. However, the point of wanting a fair electoral system isn't just about hoping for an electoral advantage - it's about believing in democracy. It's about believing that fairer voting systems that are better at holding politicians to account, and that don't lead to artificially large swings in outcome based on small swings in public mood, lead to better governance. What a lot of people forget is that (contrary to what we've seen in recent years) there are still a lot of people who get into politics because they want to make the country a better place. They might agree with each other on what that better place is, or how to achieve it, but it's unfair to assume that all politicians are only in it for personal gain. |
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Post by kathryn on Jul 5, 2024 9:57:25 GMT
Why is the media harping on about Reform 4 seats? It's pathetic, Green got 4 seats, they aren't even getting mentioned. Because Reform got a bigger vote share (14.3%) than the LibDems (12.2%) and double the vote share of the Greens (6.8%). And of course Labour under Starmer (33.8%) has got a much lower vote share than Labour under Corbyn (40.0%) at the last election. Green supporters should be glad Farage is getting lots of exposure because he'll be pushing for PR in future elections. Tactical voting is a thing, though - vote share in our current system does not map easily on to what vote share would be in PR. |
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Post by kathryn on Jul 5, 2024 9:58:50 GMT
Hope can be a dangerous thing Obama promised Hope and was a damp squib Well I guess there are plenty here who don't remember past Labour governments so we should allow them their brief moment of hope. I remember things being a lot better under the last Labour Government! Among other things it was possible to get a wisdom tooth removed in less than 2 years…. |
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Post by Jan on Jul 5, 2024 11:05:22 GMT
Well I guess there are plenty here who don't remember past Labour governments so we should allow them their brief moment of hope. I remember things being a lot better under the last Labour Government! Among other things it was possible to get a wisdom tooth removed in less than 2 years…. On the other hand Gordon Brown as PM presided over the the financial crisis of 2007-2008 which saw the biggest UK recession in post-war history up until Covid with unemployment jumping from 5% to 8% in two years. But dentists, right. |
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Post by danb on Jul 5, 2024 11:18:29 GMT
I remember things being a lot better under the last Labour Government! Among other things it was possible to get a wisdom tooth removed in less than 2 years…. On the other hand Gordon Brown as PM presided over the the financial crisis of 2007-2008 which saw the biggest UK recession in post-war history up until Covid with unemployment jumping from 5% to 8% in two years. But dentists, right. I think the ‘hope’ is based on the amount of relatively large amount of new faces and new energy. You can snipe all you like about the past, peoples past mistakes etc, but it doesn’t mean that Starmer will be the same. |
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