1,482 posts
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Post by mkb on Jun 8, 2024 10:27:05 GMT
... Interestingly I wonder what happens if you vote by postal, but die before election day? Good question. Googling has not found me an answer. I think the dead person's vote gets counted as valid as there is no mechanism for discounting it. (Death records are not necessarily updated for days/weeks.) There must be a few dozen such votes in each national UK election. It would be an interesting test case if a candidate won by a single vote (as occasionally happens) and the losing side discover that the winner benefitted from a dead vote. I suspect the result would stand.
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2,760 posts
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Post by n1david on Jun 8, 2024 15:09:49 GMT
Dogwhistle racism in the coverage of Sunak and D-Day: "he doesn't understand Britain" etc.. Unpleasant, and not being called out much. I haven't noticed this but I've been a bit out of the loop for the last 2 days. Are you seeing this in TV or print journalism, or in vox pops?
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Post by crowblack on Jun 8, 2024 20:43:59 GMT
Dogwhistle racism in the coverage of Sunak and D-Day: "he doesn't understand Britain" etc.. Unpleasant, and not being called out much. I haven't noticed this but I've been a bit out of the loop for the last 2 days. Are you seeing this in TV or print journalism, or in vox pops? From Farage, unsurprisingly, but also elsewhere and social media from accounts of all political factions (judging by their bio flags). Labour have been guilty of this too pre-election, "Sunak doesn't get Britain" - Cameron, Osborne, Johnson, Blair and co - indeed most of the chattering classes - are relatively very well off/rich, but didn't have their understanding of Britain called into question in the way being done with Sunak.
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Post by marob on Jun 8, 2024 21:10:27 GMT
Sunak, Braverman, Badenoch, and I’m sure others with less prominence… have been weaponising public prejudices for years, so if it’s coming back to bite them on the backside I shan’t be shedding any tears.
Demonising immigrants while being descended from immigrants yourself is probably not the smartest move.
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Post by crowblack on Jun 8, 2024 23:20:25 GMT
Sunak, Braverman, Badenoch, and I’m sure others with less prominence… have been weaponising public prejudices for years, so if it’s coming back to bite them on the backside I shan’t be shedding any tears. Demonising immigrants while being descended from immigrants yourself is probably not the smartest move. Two wrongs don't make a right. The way Sunak is talked about has wider ripples. For example, Jewish friends were uncomfortable with the way Jewish politicians of both sides were portrayed as dark, vampiric.
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Post by Phantom of London on Jun 9, 2024 1:16:24 GMT
I did say on here in 2019 that if the economy was still strong that Bobo (clown) Johnson would get re-elected and Brexit would be judged a success, so 5 years on, who would of thought Johnson would fall off the horse and fall hard? Then be completely out of the parliamentary party? So now the latest Delta Poll suggests that the Conservatives are on course of winning just a rump of 39 seats, this would make the Liberals the opposition. The Tories if they did win 39 seats, which includes the Prime Ministers losing his seat too, says clearly and unambiguously that Brexit was/is a complete disaster (we did warn them.) A political website I follow electionmaps.uk/nowcast#google_vignette shows that 5 seats have flipped to the Liberals in 24 hours. I am person who loves political science and all the machinations, however I’m not following Labour as that is a matter of fact they’re going romp it now. I am more interested now who is going to become His Majesty’s Opposition and that isn’t looking good for the Tories.
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Post by crowblack on Jun 9, 2024 8:20:39 GMT
I did say on here in 2019 that if the economy was still strong that Bobo (clown) Johnson would get re-elected and Brexit would be judged a success, so 5 years on, who would of thought Johnson would fall off the horse and fall hard? Then be completely out of the parliamentary party? So now the latest Delta Poll suggests that the Conservatives are on course of winning just a rump of 39 seats, this would make the Liberals the opposition. The Tories if they did win 39 seats, which includes the Prime Ministers losing his seat too, says clearly and unambiguously that Brexit was/is a complete disaster (we did warn them.) A political website I follow electionmaps.uk/nowcast#google_vignette shows that 5 seats have flipped to the Liberals in 24 hours. I am person who loves political science and all the machinations, however I’m not following Labour as that is a matter of fact they’re going romp it now. I am more interested now who is going to become His Majesty’s Opposition and that isn’t looking good for the Tories. I wonder where he'd be if Dominic Cummings hadn't torpedoed him? Fwiw, I'm on the Left but I think 'Partygate' was ludicrously overblown. If we end up with a FPPTP situation where non-mainstream parties get a big chunk of the vote but no/few seats will that increase pressure for voting reform?
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3,040 posts
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Post by crowblack on Jun 9, 2024 20:45:47 GMT
The danger of giving 16 year olds the vote - many young / first time voters in the EU elections have voted right / far right, influenced by - well, Influencers online.
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5,056 posts
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Post by Phantom of London on Jun 9, 2024 22:03:27 GMT
I did say on here in 2019 that if the economy was still strong that Bobo (clown) Johnson would get re-elected and Brexit would be judged a success, so 5 years on, who would of thought Johnson would fall off the horse and fall hard? Then be completely out of the parliamentary party? So now the latest Delta Poll suggests that the Conservatives are on course of winning just a rump of 39 seats, this would make the Liberals the opposition. The Tories if they did win 39 seats, which includes the Prime Ministers losing his seat too, says clearly and unambiguously that Brexit was/is a complete disaster (we did warn them.) A political website I follow electionmaps.uk/nowcast#google_vignette shows that 5 seats have flipped to the Liberals in 24 hours. I am person who loves political science and all the machinations, however I’m not following Labour as that is a matter of fact they’re going romp it now. I am more interested now who is going to become His Majesty’s Opposition and that isn’t looking good for the Tories. I wonder where he'd be if Dominic Cummings hadn't torpedoed him? Fwiw, I'm on the Left but I think 'Partygate' was ludicrously overblown. If we end up with a FPPTP situation where non-mainstream parties get a big chunk of the vote but no/few seats will that increase pressure for voting reform?
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Post by Phantom of London on Jun 10, 2024 21:27:08 GMT
I did say on here in 2019 that if the economy was still strong that Bobo (clown) Johnson would get re-elected and Brexit would be judged a success, so 5 years on, who would of thought Johnson would fall off the horse and fall hard? Then be completely out of the parliamentary party? So now the latest Delta Poll suggests that the Conservatives are on course of winning just a rump of 39 seats, this would make the Liberals the opposition. The Tories if they did win 39 seats, which includes the Prime Ministers losing his seat too, says clearly and unambiguously that Brexit was/is a complete disaster (we did warn them.) A political website I follow electionmaps.uk/nowcast#google_vignette shows that 5 seats have flipped to the Liberals in 24 hours. I am person who loves political science and all the machinations, however I’m not following Labour as that is a matter of fact they’re going romp it now. I am more interested now who is going to become His Majesty’s Opposition and that isn’t looking good for the Tories. I wonder where he'd be if Dominic Cummings hadn't torpedoed him? Fwiw, I'm on the Left but I think 'Partygate' was ludicrously overblown. If we end up with a FPPTP situation where non-mainstream parties get a big chunk of the vote but no/few seats will that increase pressure for voting reform? I am on the left also, but I recognise we live in a centre right country. So therefore Corbyn had his chance, we now need a winning Labour Government. So not a fan of everything Kier does, but whatever he does is a lot better than have a Conservative Government for another 5 years. I am happy to either vote Labour/Liberals depending who has the best chance of winning in my constituency - I just want to see the back of the Tories who were charlatans and led the country through a very damaging Brexit. I would be very happy to see the Liberal party as the opposition. Saying that I don’t dislike Rishi, I wouldn’t vote for him but do recognise he was dealt a terrible hand after Johnson and Truss, who would have thought in 2019 After the Tory landslide that Johnson would not only not be Prime Minister but out of being an MP, just goes to show how much he was hated by the Tory Parliamentary Party and the MP’s who voted for him through gritted teeth in 2019, as they were afraid of the Tufton Streest mafia and Dominic Cummins. The downfall of Johnson started with the loss of Amersham and Chesham to the Liberals, that seat was once the safest Tory seat, then as you say sacking of Dominic Cummins, his ally Chris Grayling not getting on a sub committee, gold wallpaper, Owen Patterson, lockdown parties, then Chris Pincher. Johnson walked around Westminster like an arrogant peacock, that is why he was hated so much and that was by his own team.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jun 11, 2024 9:08:14 GMT
I wonder where he'd be if Dominic Cummings hadn't torpedoed him? Fwiw, I'm on the Left but I think 'Partygate' was ludicrously overblown. If we end up with a FPPTP situation where non-mainstream parties get a big chunk of the vote but no/few seats will that increase pressure for voting reform? I am on the left also, but I recognise we live in a centre right country. So therefore Corbyn had his chance, we now need a winning Labour Government. So not a fan of everything Kier does, but whatever he does is a lot better than have a Conservative Government for another 5 years. I am happy to either vote Labour/Liberals depending who has the best chance of winning in my constituency - I just want to see the back of the Tories who were charlatans and led the country through a very damaging Brexit. I would be very happy to see the Liberal party as the opposition. Saying that I don’t dislike Rishi, I wouldn’t vote for him but do recognise he was dealt a terrible hand after Johnson and Truss, who would have thought in 2019 After the Tory landslide that Johnson would not only not be Prime Minister but out of being an MP, just goes to show how much he was hated by the Tory Parliamentary Party and the MP’s who voted for him through gritted teeth in 2019, as they were afraid of the Tufton Streest mafia and Dominic Cummins. The downfall of Johnson started with the loss of Amersham and Chesham to the Liberals, that seat was once the safest Tory seat, then as you say sacking of Dominic Cummins, his ally Chris Grayling not getting on a sub committee, gold wallpaper, Owen Patterson, lockdown parties, then Chris Pincher. Johnson walked around Westminster like an arrogant peacock, that is why he was hated so much and that was by his own team. Keir's centre right isn't he? Not going to be too much change from a Sunak government. Starmer must be to the right of Johnson on a fair few policies. I know Johnson was a populist leader so whoever he spoke to last or was shouting loudest will lead his thoughts but not sure Starmer is going to govern with too many policies from left of centre
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Post by lynette on Jun 11, 2024 12:16:05 GMT
Populism isn’t simply promising what the loudest shouters demand. Yet. It can be left or right.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jun 11, 2024 12:18:41 GMT
Populism isn’t simply promising what the loudest shouters demand. Yet. It can be left or right. No that was a comment on the individual
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Post by Someone in a tree on Jun 12, 2024 20:06:01 GMT
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Post by eulenspiegel on Jun 15, 2024 15:00:00 GMT
The danger of giving 16 year olds the vote - many young / first time voters in the EU elections have voted right / far right, influenced by - well, Influencers online. there is no difference to older voters getting influenced by social media ..e.g, facebook..or TV as Fox News or even far crazier.. What about a voting limit of 70 year of age..or even 65 btw. here in Aachen..a city with 60.000 students…many of them will be engineers in big companies..NASA trained here for their most dangerous reparation..world class university without tuition..same in Cologne, in Freiburg… It is all about education. AfD had no chance… as many voted Green and Volt en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volt_Germanywahlen.regioit.de/1/eu2024/05334002/praesentation/ergebnis.html?wahl_id=95&stimmentyp=0&id=ebene_3_id_1
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Post by eulenspiegel on Jun 15, 2024 15:05:00 GMT
The danger of giving 16 year olds the vote - many young / first time voters in the EU elections have voted right / far right, influenced by - well, Influencers online. there is no difference to older voters getting influenced by social media ..e.g, facebook..or TV as Fox News or even far crazier.. What about a voting limit of 70 year of age..or even 65 btw. here in Aachen..a city with 60.000 students…many of them will be engineers in big companies..NASA trained here for their most dangerous reparation..world class university without tuition..same in Cologne, in Freiburg… It is all about education. AfD had no chance… as many voted Green and Volt en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volt_Germanywahlen.regioit.de/1/eu2024/05334002/praesentation/ergebnis.html?wahl_id=95&stimmentyp=0&id=ebene_3_id_1although some of them have far more talents lol perhaps one of them in the room is now constructing textiles for Nasa ..or whatever
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Post by vdcni on Jun 15, 2024 15:50:24 GMT
Yes there's lots of evidence on the impact of Fox News in the hard right radicalisation of older voters in the US.
GB News has a similar effect though it's reach is much much smaller. Radicalisation is the issue, not the age of the voter.
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Post by crowblack on Jun 15, 2024 19:07:18 GMT
there is no difference to older voters getting influenced by social media ..e.g, facebook..or TV as Fox News or even far crazier.. There's a whole lot of difference in life experience, work experience, family raising experience, responsibilities to consider etc. etc. - - most of us cringe looking back on the sort of things we said and believed as teenagers. And I'm from the generation where the media we imbibed as kids was fact checked and peer reviewed: today's teens get much of their info from TikTok, and they certainly aren't made to watch the mainstream TV news or Panorama or World in Action like youngsters of earlier, one TV household generations - they can disappear off into online gaming worlds etc.. Most teens I know don't even sit with adults at the dinner table, or if they do they're on their phones consuming feeds algorithmically tailored to teenage tastes, not listening to adults' discussion and debate. When I go round to neighbours in our village and we discuss things like politics, there may be contributions from teachers, scientists, engineers, people working in child protection, with refugees and migrants, in the NHS, arts, police, someone whose job has taken them to Iraq or the Gaza strip etc.. - all interesting lives with worlds of experience.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jun 16, 2024 8:34:39 GMT
there is no difference to older voters getting influenced by social media ..e.g, facebook..or TV as Fox News or even far crazier.. There's a whole lot of difference in life experience, work experience, family raising experience, responsibilities to consider etc. etc. - - most of us cringe looking back on the sort of things we said and believed as teenagers. And I'm from the generation where the media we imbibed as kids was fact checked and peer reviewed: today's teens get much of their info from TikTok, and they certainly aren't made to watch the mainstream TV news or Panorama or World in Action like youngsters of earlier, one TV household generations - they can disappear off into online gaming worlds etc.. Most teens I know don't even sit with adults at the dinner table, or if they do they're on their phones consuming feeds algorithmically tailored to teenage tastes, not listening to adults' discussion and debate. When I go round to neighbours in our village and we discuss things like politics, there may be contributions from teachers, scientists, engineers, people working in child protection, with refugees and migrants, in the NHS, arts, police, someone whose job has taken them to Iraq or the Gaza strip etc.. - all interesting lives with worlds of experience. I want to live in Crowbacks village, sounds interesting
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Post by crowblack on Jun 16, 2024 9:08:18 GMT
I want to live in Crowbacks village, sounds interesting It is!
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Post by jojo on Jun 17, 2024 10:39:54 GMT
... Interestingly I wonder what happens if you vote by postal, but die before election day? Good question. Googling has not found me an answer. I think the dead person's vote gets counted as valid as there is no mechanism for discounting it. (Death records are not necessarily updated for days/weeks.) There must be a few dozen such votes in each national UK election. It would be an interesting test case if a candidate won by a single vote (as occasionally happens) and the losing side discover that the winner benefitted from a dead vote. I suspect the result would stand. I think the appropriate answer is that it evens out across the country, so no point in worrying about it. There will be people who die during the term of the parliament, and people who were 17 years and 364 days old on the day of the election, so it's all a bit arbitrary. I have worked at elections in the past, and I recall one gentleman telling me his wife had died a few days earlier so wouldn't be coming into vote. Her name was still on the register. They get printed in advance, and while there is sometimes an extra register with corrections, it's usually people who have registered late or possibly applied for a postal or proxy vote and it's not realistic to include recent deaths with it. Regarding the racism surrounding Rishi's attitude to the D-Day events - it's unfortunately not surprising. I was expecting it as soon as it happened, and without wanting to remove responsibility from the racists, IMO it underline's his lack of political awareness that he couldn't see it. There was a lot of talk about how he let down the whole British people, but rightly or wrongly, he particularly represents British people of Indian heritage, and his actions played into a false stereotype. Historians have long tried to remind the British public of the role of servicemen from the Commonwealth in WW2. However, there is often resistance from the usual suspects, and he created an open goal for them. It's not fair for the lone representative of minority or under-represented groups to be expected to be all things to all people. It's not fair that when their blunders are seen as more representative than their successes. However, that's the world we live in and this particular blunder really did disproportionately let down the servicemen from the Commonwealth, and very predictably gave ammunition to racists.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jun 17, 2024 13:21:30 GMT
I want to live in Crowbacks village, sounds interesting It is! Can I come and visit next coffee morning/book club/pub quiz or even election hustings?
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Post by Someone in a tree on Jun 17, 2024 13:59:50 GMT
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jun 18, 2024 10:19:37 GMT
Is tactical voting now not get the Tories out but seventy four seats is far too low and nobody wants Starmer getting four hundred and fifty seats?
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Post by theatrefan62 on Jun 18, 2024 14:56:28 GMT
I had been considering Labour but found out our candidate lives 80 miles away. Find it hard to vote for someone not living in the local area
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