Brexit

Never understood the BBC (news) is left wing. Andrew Marr aside, isn't every senior BBC political commentator right wing? And Andrew Marr is a Blairite so not really sure that is very left wing. Is there another BBC political correspondent who is left wing? Line that up against Humphries, Paxo, Kuensberg, Pienaar, Dimbleby and f***ing Andrew Neil. Sure I have missed loads but anyway, does the claim stack up? 

lynette thanks for pointing out I have invoked the Chekhov firearm principle, as you say now it is in the text it must be part of the denouement.

Sure it will go off tomorrow but the victim is still up for grabs, definitely no spoilers as in any good new writing the ending is up for grabs and all we can be sure is that it wasn’t the Butler.

After an afternoon stapling placards for tomorrow’s March am now going to switch off and hopefully enjoy my first Mischief Theatre production, hopes not high due to the mixed reactions here, not having the ‘gone wrong’ expectations may be a positive.

Aside from the expected, there are two more groups that haven’t really had much examination. First are the ‘chaos voters’ who were an important factor in the referendum win. Those who wanted to bring down what exists, hoping for a chance that it would give them something in return (the ‘house price fallers, for example, who wanted a collapse in the economy so that house prices crashed (yes, I know, I don’t understand the thought process either)).

Increasingly, however, I’ve come across ‘punishment Brexiters’, who want the worst possible outcome, so that it kills off any chance of it being successful or lasting. I have to admit that, at times, I’ve had to stop myself going down that route. I would be okay but I just can’t allow those who are less secure to suffer in order to teach someone a lesson. Neither group is massive but 1 in a 100 can make a difference when things are close.

Both do, very much, exist,

’Chaos Voters’ have been the subject of study recently and, via a NYT column, here’s a quick precis.

”Petersen, Osmundsen and Arceneaux find that those who meet their definition of having a “need for chaos” express that need by willingly spreading disinformation. Their goal is not to advance their own ideology but to undermine political elites, left and right, and to “mobilize others against politicians in general.” These disrupters do not “share rumors because they believe them to be true. For the core group, hostile political rumors are simply a tool to create havoc.”

www.nytimes.com/2019/09/04/opinion/trump-voters-chaos.html

So, trying to argue with them about political ideas is worthless, they simply do not care. On a global basis, we can also see this through the actions of such as Putin. Truth is merely a weakness when untruths are more powerful.

The ‘Punishment Brexiters’ are often found on the left. The idea of a hard Brexit leading to a socialist utopia as a way out of chaos, isn’t that uncommon. On the right, the idea of ‘punishment’ is more baked into the actual idea, as we’ve seen. They also want to hurt the same group but at least it’s their opponents they want to hurt rather than those they purport to want to help!

In making some sort of theatre link, here’s an article by Eddie Marsan who articulates this idea.

”Now, I’ve never met Seumas Milne or Andrew Murray, the two aides who are said to have the greatest influence over Corbyn, but if I was writing this as a script, I couldn’t create two more caricatured personifications of the phenomenon I have just outlined. One is a Winchester-educated revolutionary, son of a former BBC director general, the other has an aristocratic background and an entry in Debrett’s Peerage. Together, they are trying to stop ordinary people having an informed vote over the most important issue they’ve ever faced.

The right-wing Brexiteers believe that a free market utopia will rise from the ashes of destruction that our departure from the EU will bring; left-wing Brexiteers say it will be a socialist utopia which will emerge. What both have in common is that they believe the destruction is a price worth paying.”

www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/eddie-marsan-corbyn-betraying-working-class-1-5846443

It looks as though Johnson’s gameplan is to replace the DUP, who turned out to be too focused, with the Labour Brexit fringe, hoping that they don’t realise that they are the new patsies. There is a supreme irony in this that Johnson’s putative deal is, literally, a surrender bill as regards the UK and Northern Ireland.

DUP support, people may not know, is predominantly working class unionists. Of course, Johnson was going to betray them, just as he will use and discard any of the ‘useful idiots’ from Labour who betray the working class.

He’ll have to wait a few decades, as per This House, to do it justice. Sadly, I fear I may not be around when the consequences have fully been lived through (Graham’s 37, so has a better chance!)

Starmer currently showing the Labour leadership up by having read the bill and therefore being able to take it forensically apart. If only he, or someone with a brain, was the leader of the Labour party in the past few years.

Kier Starmer was good today - had a real grasp of the implications of the deal. More like him on both sides of the House would mean we'd be in a much better place than we are. This stuff is complex and many MPs don't have the type of mind to deal with the detail.

Brexit is on the one hand all about national identity (or it’s been constructed by Vote Leave to be about that) and on the other it’s ALL about the details....rules or origin, frictionless trade, customs, VAT.....and those are hard to understand. I was so enraged when Johnson said on the BBC news that he would be organising a free trade deal with the EU and Laura K didn’t point out that this would mean border checks.....I think that’s one reason Brexit is hard....people tune out when you get to real practical details. I thought Stammer was good explaining some of that today. Industry just needs to relentlessly point out that they will be forced to cease business here unless customs union and as close as possible to single market. I agree with CP above that I reckon they could get a deal through (it is essentially what Labour argued for)

Letwin has said he will support Boris' bill now. He merely wanted to get the idea of No Deal out of the way. Other former Tories may get behind this now along with fringes from the Labour Party or former Labour MPs who are sitting as independents. But without DUP support the numbers for Boris to pass it will be fairly hard.

We've still got the Queen's Speech to be debated, a new Speaker to be chosen and a possible election. I think with No Deal off the table then there could be a move for an election to be called in a couple of weeks and taking place late Nov/Early Dec. The only issue here is it eats into the extension time unless an outline deal has been passed and the assumption is whichever comes first the deal is passed or extension time expires.

Even Jared O'Mara showed up today in Parliament!

Although I wouldn’t like to see the economy suffer, as jobs tend to go, less tax collected, public services get hit, it turns into a viscous circle (I think this is the place you were coming from.) But I also believe in don’t bite the hand that feeds you, the 2 groups that were the most vocal for Brexit being farmers and fishermen, who also enjoyed great EU subsidies and both used more than their fair quotas on EU workers, so why should the government now bail these 2 industries out, with central government grants.