1,863 posts
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Brexit
Aug 31, 2019 15:10:25 GMT
via mobile
Post by NeilVHughes on Aug 31, 2019 15:10:25 GMT
If we have a General Election (before Oct 31st) and a coalition of Parties win enough seats to control Parliament who clearly state Revoke Article 50 and stay in Europe does the Electoral process trump the Referenda process.
Not sure where the precedence lies but we are in interesting Constitutional times.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2019 16:21:46 GMT
How did we get to a point where we have articles about evacuating the Royal Family in 2019 in the UK? Because of the possibility of civil unrest! More concerning is the fact that all it will mostly lead to from people is shrugs (Rhetorical question in case anyone plans on giving me details!!) Meanwhile I'm pricing up freezers for the shed to stockpile meat, bread and veg and wondering how I can get extras on my prescriptions. How many times can I honestly 'lose' my tablets? I would’t be relying on freezers, one power cut and you might be stuffed. Tinned and cured/dried foodstuffs are the way to go. Surely frozen bread will take up room too. Flour, yeast and water takes up alot less room. |
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Brexit
Aug 31, 2019 16:52:42 GMT
Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2019 16:52:42 GMT
It's unlikely we'll have power cuts. We do get quite a bit of our power from France and The Netherlands but under agreements that are separate from our membership of the EU. I know there are some people who would dearly love to dig up the British Isles and slide us out into the Atlantic to get away from our European neighbours but I'm almost certain that won't happen.
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Brexit
Aug 31, 2019 17:12:04 GMT
Post by londonpostie on Aug 31, 2019 17:12:04 GMT
This is the UK power mix. Would one of our power industry experts explain the relationship with Brexit, for us? gridwatch.templar.co.uk/ |
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Brexit
Aug 31, 2019 17:26:02 GMT
Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2019 17:26:02 GMT
It's unlikely we'll have power cuts. We do get quite a bit of our power from France and The Netherlands but under agreements that are separate from our membership of the EU. I know there are some people who would dearly love to dig up the British Isles and slide us out into the Atlantic to get away from our European neighbours but I'm almost certain that won't happen. I've had two extended power cuts this year, I don’t think Brexit is required in order to screw up the grid (see the chaos caused last month). I now find it best to keep little in the freezer and just buy in for the coming week or so. |
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562 posts
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Brexit
Aug 31, 2019 17:32:56 GMT
Post by jadnoop on Aug 31, 2019 17:32:56 GMT
I know this is said in jest, but just in case... I don't know much about the power industry, but I use some of the associated data with work. If anyone's interested in digging into this further and, in particular, understanding the annual make-up of the energy sector then DUKES ( the Digest of UK Energy Statistics) is probably the go-to resource. Depending on your background it may be a bit of a slog to begin with, but they do pretty comprehensive annual reports which tend to have a short abstract/summary at the beginning before diving into everything more deeply. They also have a lot of data that's well labelled and easily downloadable. Of course this is just the underlying data, so doesn't comment on things like the potential impact of Brexit, but it will probably give a more comprehensive and understandable picture of the UK energy sector than the previous website. And, while I'm here, in terms of the recent discussions about surveying. There's a fantastic recent book by David Spiegelhalter which might be of interest. It has just about the least exciting name I can imagine ( The Art of Statistics: Learning From Data), but it covers a lot of this stuff in a surprisingly readable way, with lots of examples. (I'm not associated with this book in any way, so I'm not shilling) |
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Brexit
Aug 31, 2019 17:40:43 GMT
Post by londonpostie on Aug 31, 2019 17:40:43 GMT
How did we get to a point where we have articles about evacuating the Royal Family in 2019 in the UK? Because of the possibility of civil unrest! More concerning is the fact that all it will mostly lead to from people is shrugs We got to this point becasue there is a large media industry created around Brexit that feeds from social media exposure; you can write 2 even 3 pieces a week - or appear on commercial or other radio or daytime tv or create a Youtube channel - say something bland, perhaps add a new angle to the hysteria, and no one will remember a thing 48-hours later as the circus moves on.
It's a fantastic wheeze; whatever you say on a Monday - and get paid for - is irrelevant by Thursday as the goalposts move again; so you are completely insulated from accountability.
The Brexit Industry has become the perfect way to pay school fees, buy a better holiday home or widen the retirement options. Literally all you have to do is find a tiny angle from which to feed the hysteria.
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Brexit
Aug 31, 2019 17:50:04 GMT
Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2019 17:50:04 GMT
If we have a General Election (before Oct 31st) and a coalition of Parties win enough seats to control Parliament who clearly state Revoke Article 50 and stay in Europe does the Electoral process trump the Referenda process. Not sure where the precedence lies but we are in interesting Constitutional times. Ooh, interesting question. My assumption would be election trumps referendum? |
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Brexit
Aug 31, 2019 18:04:15 GMT
Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2019 18:04:15 GMT
What is most frustrating is that broadcasters seem to think that just providing a platform for a couple of opposing views is enough, when a little bit more immediate fact checking of what they say would be useful.
I’d be happy to see the Koch Brothers funded commentators from Spiked given the boot, for example. Their conversion from Marxism to the far right ideology they now spout is shocking and yet no broadcaster even puts their appearances in context. Thankfully, at least the BBC has (far too late) said that it will put thinktank and other contributors in context when they are introduced.
O/T Great reporting from Sky today on the situation in Hong Kong, on the spot and at the heart of the protests.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2019 18:07:51 GMT
But I spent a few minutes writing a post on a messageboard to highlight some of the biases in the article you chose to link to instead of going to the original source. The DM spent (presumably) a decent amount of time to present the results of the survey they commissioned to millions of readers. I imagined it was implicit but if not: no, my comment was not intended to be a neutral and complete summary of the survey. Indeed, I even ended my comment with an explicit suggestion that readers go to the original source (and as implied by your comment, the DM didn't bother with that). If you want to describe this as 'dodgy' then fair enough. If the respondents were outraged by Johnson’s actions, these numbers should look VERY different. Again, if 3 is true, you might expect the anti Brexit parties to be further ahead in the voting intention polls. 'If they were true', 'the numbers should look different'? What are you talking about? The numbers in the survey are what they are, and the internal inconsistencies simply represent of the complexities & inconsistencies of the people being surveyed. If your argument is that the results might not represent the wider population, or might not tally other surveys carried out at different times, well of course, what do you expect? Scaling a survey of 1,020 people to the entire population is hugely difficult and problematic, especially when it comes to entirely qualitative & subjective issues like Brexit. And believe it or not, people's views & answers change over time, they depend on the phrasing on the questions, and by recent events, and so on. So it's hardly surprising that there will be inconsistencies. But either you take the survey as it is (just a survey of only 1,020 people on a complicated topic), or you acknowledge that the small sample size, hugely divisive topic, and timing of the survey mean that it's just a fuzzy snapshot which can't readily be assumed to represent the wider population. Either way, you can't simply treat one portion of the answers as true and then say that other questions aren't true because they're different from the ones you've decided are correct. I can’t see the full Survation results in a Google search to tell if the DM have ignored a question included in the poll, but would happily read if you can provide a link. The data is available from the Survation twitter account. It includes the aggregated results for each question, split by key demographics. The results are also presented both raw, as well as scaled to adjust for things like whether people say they would vote, and so on. I include a link below: I still think the original point I made when posting the link remains: more support for Johnson than the proliferation of vile, sweary social media posts and demonstrations organised by the usual rabble would suggest. But thank you for sharing the link, I honestly couldn’t find it. Searched their website and Googled it, no success! |
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587 posts
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Brexit
Aug 31, 2019 18:09:05 GMT
via mobile
Post by Polly1 on Aug 31, 2019 18:09:05 GMT
This article is surely from March? |
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Post by missthelma on Aug 31, 2019 18:18:59 GMT
How did we get to a point where we have articles about evacuating the Royal Family in 2019 in the UK? Because of the possibility of civil unrest! More concerning is the fact that all it will mostly lead to from people is shrugs We got to this point becasue there is a large media industry created around Brexit that feeds from social media exposure; you can write 2 even 3 pieces a week - or appear on commercial or other radio or daytime tv or create a Youtube channel - say something bland, perhaps add a new angle to the hysteria, and no one will remember a thing 48-hours later as the circus moves on.
It's a fantastic wheeze; whatever you say on a Monday - and get paid for - is irrelevant by Thursday as the goalposts move again; so you are completely insulated from accountability.
The Brexit Industry has become the perfect way to pay school fees, buy a better holiday home or widen the retirement options. Literally all you have to do is find a tiny angle from which to feed the hysteria.
Lord A'Mercy, there's always one 
And are we to assume you were absent the day they did definitions at school??
For future reference, just Googled this
Rhetorical:
(of a question) asked in order to produce an effect or to make a statement rather than to elicit information.  |
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1,863 posts
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Post by NeilVHughes on Aug 31, 2019 18:25:11 GMT
Not heard the Labour Party, Liberal Democrat’s Greens and SNP who are actively supporting,/ attending the marches described as a rabble and when added together have more support than Johnson if only slightly who incidentally has only taken back his natural supporters who had moved allegiance to the Brexit Party as planned.
We cannot suspend Government even for the ‘no never mind it’s only 2 days’ to circumvent Parliamentary scrutiny for Political gain as it sets a dangerous precedent and will continue to demonstrate and when I turned up at Westminster Wednesday lunchtime there was no organised events only my own intent to defend Parliamentary Sovereignty.
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Brexit
Aug 31, 2019 18:28:10 GMT
Post by missthelma on Aug 31, 2019 18:28:10 GMT
How did we get to a point where we have articles about evacuating the Royal Family in 2019 in the UK? Because of the possibility of civil unrest! More concerning is the fact that all it will mostly lead to from people is shrugs (Rhetorical question in case anyone plans on giving me details!!) Meanwhile I'm pricing up freezers for the shed to stockpile meat, bread and veg and wondering how I can get extras on my prescriptions. How many times can I honestly 'lose' my tablets? I would’t be relying on freezers, one power cut and you might be stuffed. Tinned and cured/dried foodstuffs are the way to go. I take your point and my friend who has been stockpiling for months and also hoarding currency mentioned the same thing!! I did look at generators in a moment of extreme madness but I don't think power cuts are a likely scenario unless the 'civil unrest' gets extreme.
Food and medicine could be an issue but I suspect that will be more down to people panicking on October 30th and picking the shops clean than a complete inability to source things.
And @remark make my own bread?? Dear Lord I have boxsets to watch i can't be faffing about with yeast!!
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Brexit
Aug 31, 2019 18:45:38 GMT
Post by londonpostie on Aug 31, 2019 18:45:38 GMT
We got to this point becasue there is a large media industry created around Brexit that feeds from social media exposure; you can write 2 even 3 pieces a week - or appear on commercial or other radio or daytime tv or create a Youtube channel - say something bland, perhaps add a new angle to the hysteria, and no one will remember a thing 48-hours later as the circus moves on.
It's a fantastic wheeze; whatever you say on a Monday - and get paid for - is irrelevant by Thursday as the goalposts move again; so you are completely insulated from accountability.
The Brexit Industry has become the perfect way to pay school fees, buy a better holiday home or widen the retirement options. Literally all you have to do is find a tiny angle from which to feed the hysteria.
Lord A'Mercy, there's always one
And are we to assume you were absent the day they did definitions at school??
For future reference, just Googled this
Rhetorical:
(of a question) asked in order to produce an effect or to make a statement rather than to elicit information. Which I took the opportunity to use.
Question marks can leave you open to - well - people responding.
Please don't patronise, it makes you look small and defensive.
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Brexit
Aug 31, 2019 18:56:24 GMT
Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2019 18:56:24 GMT
I would’t be relying on freezers, one power cut and you might be stuffed. Tinned and cured/dried foodstuffs are the way to go. I take your point and my friend who has been stockpiling for months and also hoarding currency mentioned the same thing!! I did look at generators in a moment of extreme madness but I don't think power cuts are a likely scenario unless the 'civil unrest' gets extreme.
Food and medicine could be an issue but I suspect that will be more down to people panicking on October 30th and picking the shops clean than a complete inability to source things.
And @remark make my own bread?? Dear Lord I have boxsets to watch i can't be faffing about with yeast!!
Aye who remembers the panic buying carrots scare about 10 years ago? Where a rumoured potential shortfall cause the shelves to be wiped clear nationally. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2019 19:02:40 GMT
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2,762 posts
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Brexit
Aug 31, 2019 21:35:18 GMT
via mobile
Post by n1david on Aug 31, 2019 21:35:18 GMT
If we have a General Election (before Oct 31st) and a coalition of Parties win enough seats to control Parliament who clearly state Revoke Article 50 and stay in Europe does the Electoral process trump the Referenda process. Not sure where the precedence lies but we are in interesting Constitutional times. Ooh, interesting question. My assumption would be election trumps referendum? Election has to trump referendum given that referendum was only advisory (in legal terms). |
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5,707 posts
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Brexit
Aug 31, 2019 22:44:14 GMT
Post by lynette on Aug 31, 2019 22:44:14 GMT
Depends what the parties go to the country saying in their manifestos. If a party says it will overturn the Referendum, then that party attains the majority of seats in the Commons, then hey, yes, it would appear that the election triumphs. But in the Commons, the opposition, if there is one, can go down the vote of No Confidence route and so on ad infinitum.
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5,066 posts
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Brexit
Sept 1, 2019 1:11:42 GMT
Post by Phantom of London on Sept 1, 2019 1:11:42 GMT
I was there today and the mob out today looked 200% more appealing and definitely had a lot less space between their ears, than the ones 3 months back, that were out for Tommy Robinson. That time I was attending Killer Joe at the Trafalgar Studios, mind you some of the people protesting for Robinson, looked like they were lifted straight from Killer Joe.
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Brexit
Sept 1, 2019 1:20:57 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2019 1:20:57 GMT
If we have a General Election (before Oct 31st) and a coalition of Parties win enough seats to control Parliament who clearly state Revoke Article 50 and stay in Europe does the Electoral process trump the Referenda process. Not sure where the precedence lies but we are in interesting Constitutional times. The simple answer is we won't as the PM decides when election day will be... |
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Brexit
Sept 1, 2019 2:59:37 GMT
Post by londonpostie on Sept 1, 2019 2:59:37 GMT
If we have a General Election (before Oct 31st) and a coalition of Parties win enough seats to control Parliament who clearly state Revoke Article 50 and stay in Europe does the Electoral process trump the Referenda process. Not sure where the precedence lies but we are in interesting Constitutional times. The simple answer is we won't as the PM decides when election day will be... Every day I read new things on here.
Where are we now with the Fixed Term Parliament Act?
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1,863 posts
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Post by NeilVHughes on Sept 1, 2019 6:42:50 GMT
As in the link an election can be called if there is a no-confidence vote or ⅔ of the MP’s vote for one.
Both scenarios are still live, there could be a no-confidence vote this week and if Johnson as is now rumoured due to the stalemate will give the option to Parliament to call for a General Election this week on the belief of a larger majority.
Not sure what a General Election will achieve apart from potentially removing Johnson, for Brexit as the numbers imply the stalemate will continue and likely further antagonise the electorate.
We need the current Parliament to finish what they started and somehow find a way to leave the E.U. with a deal and possibly only then call an election so that we can start again with a Government with a clear mandate to move us on from this fiasco.
In reality the fixed term act is not worth the paper it is printed on as if the Government requests a General Election it’s Party will toe the Party line and by definition the opposition Parties will agree as it is their opportunity to Govern, as in when May requested an election in this way.
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2,342 posts
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Brexit
Sept 1, 2019 8:30:19 GMT
Post by theglenbucklaird on Sept 1, 2019 8:30:19 GMT
If we have a General Election (before Oct 31st) and a coalition of Parties win enough seats to control Parliament who clearly state Revoke Article 50 and stay in Europe does the Electoral process trump the Referenda process. Not sure where the precedence lies but we are in interesting Constitutional times. The simple answer is we won't as the PM decides when election day will be... This, not time for an election |
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2,342 posts
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Brexit
Sept 1, 2019 8:31:58 GMT
Post by theglenbucklaird on Sept 1, 2019 8:31:58 GMT
I was there today and the mob out today looked 200% more appealing and definitely had a lot less space between their ears, than the ones 3 months back, that were out for Tommy Robinson. That time I was attending Killer Joe at the Trafalgar Studios, mind you some of the people protesting for Robinson, looked like they were lifted straight from Killer Joe. That's the difference though, taking to the streets not enough anymore. |
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