287 posts
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Post by singingbird on Oct 4, 2023 22:42:09 GMT
I saw this tonight. I have been avoiding this thread since it opened so have a lot to catch up on and enthusiastically discuss, but I just have to say... wow.
I have rarely left a theatre on such a surge of adrenalin.
I've liked Lloyd's work in the past but wasn't sure his style was a good fit for this show. I was equally sceptical about Nicole but ready to go in with an open mind. They both triumphed. I'm sure this is a divisive production, but I'd always rather that theatre (or indeed any art) was bold and daring and split opinions. This is a script/score that's tailor made to elicit strong reactions and this is the production to do just that. So pleased to see that the majority of votes here are positive, though!
I know that Lloyd doesn't really direct new work - re-imagining classics is his thing - but ALW really needs to collaborate on something new - either with him or with a director of an equally distinctive vision. This production shows what an amazing score Sunset Boulevard has, and how, when he's on top of things, ALW is (despite all his nonsense) an absolutely masterful theatre composer. You'd never in a million years know this show shared a composer with Bad Cinders.
I know ALW has no quality control, and evidently doesn't give two hoots about whether he's taken seriously as an artist or not - and maybe we should say good on him for that. Trying to impress people by deliberately being arty or clever can be a dangerous game. But, honestly, this (as with LLoyd's Evita and also the Open Air JCS) are the things that ALW should be remembered for. He needs to stop being silly and just make serious, adult work. Because he's bloomin' good at it when he sets his mind to it.
Anyway, after some early uncertainty, this gradually worked its spell on me and, by the end, I was absolutely blown away. I know the show inside out and was really unsure as to whether I needed to see it again right now, but the gut punch it delivered was stronger than ever.
Best of all for me is that it didn't explain itself or apologise for itself. It didn't really matter where we were, or when we were. It didn't matter if it was real, or memory, or play-acting, or the inside of someone's head. It just was.
Please please please let this be a wake up call for ALW, while he still has time to create something else really good.
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2,259 posts
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Post by richey on Oct 4, 2023 22:44:10 GMT
Given what's happened at Les Mis tonight, hope they're ensuring tight security for the outdoors part of Act 2 opening.
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Post by toomasj on Oct 5, 2023 4:16:02 GMT
Someone clearly doesn't know the meaning of the word 'opinion' Being dismissive of someone else's thoughts on it doesn't make your opinion any more valid. How is it "dismissive" to spend an hour contemplating the words of Steve's review and writing over a dozen paragraphs explaining as best I can my disagreements with it? Discussion and debate have been an integral part of art consumption for as long as art has been a thing. Steve started this particular discussion by positioning his review as a direct response to "the naysayers"; am I, a naysayer, not allowed to respond back? Yes, I know the meaning of the word "opinion"; I also know the meaning of the word "dialectic". I strongly disagreed with Steve's review, but it was well written and I feel I learnt something from it. Maybe someone who strongly disagrees with me will learn something from my reviews? Simply because if you disagree with the majority you’re up against it. Never be afraid to stop speaking your mind though, some of the behaviour on here is appalling. People who wouldn’t dare speak or behave that way in person - keyboard warriors. Back on topic, I’ve been offered a comp ticket for this in November and may make it if I’m free. Be interesting to see if they’ve added luxuries like props or a set by that point.
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4,800 posts
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Post by Mark on Oct 5, 2023 8:15:58 GMT
Full thoughts from last night... When this got announced with Nicole, I was a bit "meh" about it. So much so that when Rachel Tucker was announced, I specifically booked for one of her performances. That said, I went last night and Nicole absolutely blew me away. Her vocals were absolutely stunning especially in those two big numbers. Any preconceptions I had of her as a performer were proven wrong last night. I loved the production, but then I've been a fan of quite a few of Lloyd's recent productions (The Effect/Doll's House). It works so well here. The was video is incorporated is inspiring. That first opening title sequence? Dear lord I was hooked from that moment. And the sound?!? The whole show sounded so beautiful. Tom Francis was great, especially in that title sequence. He seemed to have a little vocal trouble in Too Much in Love to Care last night. Hope his voice holds out for press night.
5 star production from me. Can't wait to go again (front row) for Rachel, and i'd not be against going back to see Nicole again either.
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148 posts
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Post by FJ on Oct 5, 2023 8:17:56 GMT
Saw this for the second time last night and finally have time to give my thoughts.
I won the TodayTix Lottery for last night and my seats allocated were row R of the stalls. Although not wanting to sound ungrateful, these are some of the worst 'lottery' seats I've had for a show. A few rows from the back of the stalls and I would say they were restricted review as the overhang from the circle cut off the top of the giant screen. I'm very glad I saw the show from row C of the stalls last week, so it didn't bother me too much, but I'm often a bit bitter with shows that have a large amount of availability on the day, and still offer Lottery or Rush tickets at the back. Shows at the dominion always do the same, rush for The Prince of Egypt and Grease are/were always very far back, despite the majority of the front of the stalls being empty. Yes you're getting cheaper tickets, but the further back you go the less of a good deal these become. Also for reference, when I collected my tickets at the box office, the lady said 'is it lottery' and after I said yes she grabbed the pile of 'lottery tickets' and I would say there were at least 20 pairs. I guess the amount could vary night by night, but clearly plenty lottery available some days.
Anyway, very little differences between the two performances, didn't notice any changes other than I think Nicole has gotten even better in the past week.
I really loved the production, the mixture of live filming throughout, the staging, the (perhaps underused) ensemble, it really is a visually stunning performance, which seems strange to say with no set and no props, and very few costumes. I will say I think I was maybe able to appreciate the lighting design more from further back, but that's maybe the only advantage.
I think Tom Francis is great, but Nicole is really the standout for me. She is mesmerising to watch on stage, and I often felt her lack of presence when she wasn't on stage, and was waiting for Norma to return in a later scene so we could get her back onstage. Her two big numbers are really fantastic, and those last 10 minutes are phenomenal. I think she gives anything but a 'safe' performance, and whilst I do think some of her (or the directors) choices are borderline ludicrous, I think it works to the extreme, and is so bonkers that it really works, for me at least.
The orchestra is the best I've ever heard in the theatre, they just sound sensational with that score.
Have to give the production 5 stars, although I will say Sunset Boulevard isn't necessarily going to make it into my list of favourite musicals, but I think this reinvention maybe me enjoy it 10 times more than I would have a traditional production (which I saw when I was about 10 on tour and remember hating every second of, but I'll maybe put that down to naivety,).
I'll probably try to catch it again while it's on but I won't rely on the TT lottery next time I don't think.
Also, First time I've ever gone to the stage door after a performance, and after about 15 minutes of waiting a member of security said 'for a number of reasons' Nicole won't be coming out tonight. The crowd took the news well tbh, and I guess after seeing the Les Mis news on the way home that explains it.
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3,474 posts
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Post by ceebee on Oct 5, 2023 8:26:24 GMT
How is it "dismissive" to spend an hour contemplating the words of Steve's review and writing over a dozen paragraphs explaining as best I can my disagreements with it? Discussion and debate have been an integral part of art consumption for as long as art has been a thing. Steve started this particular discussion by positioning his review as a direct response to "the naysayers"; am I, a naysayer, not allowed to respond back? Yes, I know the meaning of the word "opinion"; I also know the meaning of the word "dialectic". I strongly disagreed with Steve's review, but it was well written and I feel I learnt something from it. Maybe someone who strongly disagrees with me will learn something from my reviews? Simply because if you disagree with the majority you’re up against it. Never be afraid to stop speaking your mind though, some of the behaviour on here is appalling. People who wouldn’t dare speak or behave that way in person - keyboard warriors. Back on topic, I’ve been offered a comp ticket for this in November and may make it if I’m free. Be interesting to see if they’ve added luxuries like props or a set by that point. Because you have good taste and loved Lord of the Rings, I know that you are actually going to love this Sunset Boulevard if you go along and see it.
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3,474 posts
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Post by ceebee on Oct 5, 2023 12:31:11 GMT
Forgot to mention when I saw this on Tuesday, there appears to be a new section of video with Max in a car with a rain flecked windscreen - has this always been in and I've just missed it before, or has anybody else noticed this?
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148 posts
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Post by FJ on Oct 5, 2023 13:01:55 GMT
Forgot to mention when I saw this on Tuesday, there appears to be a new section of video with Max in a car with a rain flecked windscreen - has this always been in and I've just missed it before, or has anybody else noticed this? Glad I'm not going mad, I don't remember that from last week either but yes was there last night so assume it's been added recently!
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Post by max on Oct 5, 2023 13:31:57 GMT
Looking forward to seeing this.
Re. people standing in a line spitting out their lines, physically unconnected to the receiver (Jamie Lloyd trademark)....
I guess 'Let's Have Lunch' plays into this well (?), and is suitable very early, so makes a case for Jamie Lloyd's vision having an integral hook into the existing material, rather than being wholly imposed afterwards. In the increasingly cacophonous 'Morning Joanna....' sequence there's a hint of friendship and being 'in it together', but more than that it's the platitudes and air-kissing niceties of people desperate for the job and really not listening to what anyone else is saying. Speaking to be heard and win, rather than to converse.
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3,474 posts
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Post by ceebee on Oct 5, 2023 13:38:40 GMT
Looking forward to seeing this. Re. people standing in a line spitting out their lines, physically unconnected to the receiver (Jamie Lloyd trademark).... I guess 'Let's Have Lunch' plays into this well (?), and is suitable very early, so makes a case for Jamie Lloyd's vision having an integral hook into the existing material, rather than being wholly imposed afterwards. In the increasingly cacophonous 'Morning Joanna....' sequence there's a hint of friendship and being 'in it together', but more than that it's the platitudes and air-kissing niceties of people desperate for the job and really not listening to what anyone else is saying. Speaking to be heard and win, rather than to converse. I love the phrase "increasingly cacophonous 'Morning Joanna...' sequence", as this is exactly how it plays out. Joe is super-cool at the beginning and just batting away each conversation/line, but his frustration grows along with the volume, and the air of desperation/desolation/desire to be seen/somebody/something is palpable. I absolutely love the linear direction whether across the front stage or to the depths of the back of the stage, it is cleverly done, like chess pieces on a board (echoed in the vivid choreography in the second half when the ensemble are all in what looks like black nightshirts/tunics). I could bore on forever about how great this show is - especially when I was so ambivalent towards it and had low expectations of how good it might be.
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Post by solangelafitte on Oct 5, 2023 14:17:14 GMT
A friend just picked up a mid stalls seat for tonight for £47.50 that usually goes for £87.50. So dynamic pricing really does have it's perks nearer show time. Think this will be my plan when I'm free to see it.
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3,474 posts
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Post by ceebee on Oct 5, 2023 15:04:48 GMT
A friend just picked up a mid stalls seat for tonight for £47.50 that usually goes for £87.50. So dynamic pricing really does have it's perks nearer show time. Think this will be my plan when I'm free to see it. Yup, deals currently on TKTS though I think if it gets positive reviews these might disappear as sales take off.
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287 posts
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Post by singingbird on Oct 5, 2023 15:12:34 GMT
I've really enjoyed reading all the comments on this. So many intelligent thoughtful reviews (essays, really) from people who both like the show and don't. Thank you everyone for taking the time to write so much!!
One thing i wanted to say, which I forgot to mention last might, is that while the video thing may not be new in theatre, I have never seen it used like this in a musical, let alone a west end musical, let alone an ALW one. The closest I guess is Oklahoma but that felt like it had a different intent and wasn't so integral to the production.
I think it's phenomenal to see such bold staging, however new (or not) it may be, used to re-interpret a blockbuster mega-musical. In its way, it is as theatrical as Hal Prince's staging of Evita and Phantom, or Napier's sets for Starlight and Cats - a pure live event experience that takes you into a totally different world. It exploits the magic of live performance to its fullest, although in a totally different way. I haven't felt this for a West End musical for a long long time and I hadn't realised how much I'd missed that feeling!
I also really like the way that this stark, brutal staging has been applied to a lush, romantic (albeit dark and cynical) musical work. The two different styles actually play off against each other perfectly, which is why I say that ALW should write more 'adult' musicals. IMO his best work has always been where he has used his gift for melody to explore things that are actually pretty dark, and where the staging leans into that.
Totally agree too about how phenomenal this sounds. I don't know what they've done, or how they've done it, but it's magnificent.
Personally, I just think it's incredible that we're sitting here in 2023, discussing whether the metanarrative in an Andrew Lloyd Webber musical works or not. I repeat - and Andrew Lloyd Webber musical. Not Sondheim. Not a Jeanine Tesori musical, or a Dave Malloy one. How did this happen? More please!!
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Post by danb on Oct 5, 2023 15:16:33 GMT
Looking forward to seeing this. Re. people standing in a line spitting out their lines, physically unconnected to the receiver (Jamie Lloyd trademark).... I guess 'Let's Have Lunch' plays into this well (?), and is suitable very early, so makes a case for Jamie Lloyd's vision having an integral hook into the existing material, rather than being wholly imposed afterwards. In the increasingly cacophonous 'Morning Joanna....' sequence there's a hint of friendship and being 'in it together', but more than that it's the platitudes and air-kissing niceties of people desperate for the job and really not listening to what anyone else is saying. Speaking to be heard and win, rather than to converse. A bit like on here sometimes 😑
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Post by solangelafitte on Oct 5, 2023 15:22:15 GMT
A friend just picked up a mid stalls seat for tonight for £47.50 that usually goes for £87.50. So dynamic pricing really does have it's perks nearer show time. Think this will be my plan when I'm free to see it. Yup, deals currently on TKTS though I think if it gets positive reviews these might disappear as sales take off. That is my worry alright. I'll keep an eye on it and then splurge when the time comes if I have to, I guess!
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Post by lolaluffneggle on Oct 5, 2023 15:38:49 GMT
They used to be £50/£70 and they were £50/£80 today but they did add tickets throughout the day. I hope they keep because I would rather not splurge on a £150 ticket.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2023 15:41:16 GMT
Well, we're on page 57 for a show that has yet to officially open, so that says something I guess.
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4,800 posts
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Post by Mark on Oct 5, 2023 16:56:35 GMT
They used to be £50/£70 and they were £50/£80 today but they did add tickets throughout the day. I hope they keep because I would rather not splurge on a £150 ticket. Those side dress circle seats are there again for £20. An absolute steal I must say, pretty much no restriction because there’s no set!!
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Post by Dr Tom on Oct 5, 2023 18:30:07 GMT
Lottery - Dress Circle L (central, but my £20 seat was better)!
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Post by theatrelover123 on Oct 5, 2023 18:59:58 GMT
Forgot to mention when I saw this on Tuesday, there appears to be a new section of video with Max in a car with a rain flecked windscreen - has this always been in and I've just missed it before, or has anybody else noticed this? PLEASE PUT SPOILERS IN SPOILER QUOTES!!
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Post by mattnyc on Oct 5, 2023 19:04:09 GMT
Forgot to mention when I saw this on Tuesday, there appears to be a new section of video with Max in a car with a rain flecked windscreen - has this always been in and I've just missed it before, or has anybody else noticed this? PLEASE PUT SPOILERS IN SPOILER QUOTES!! Is that really a spoiler..?
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Post by bobbievanhusen on Oct 5, 2023 19:24:23 GMT
Someone clearly doesn't know the meaning of the word 'opinion' Being dismissive of someone else's thoughts on it doesn't make your opinion any more valid. How is it "dismissive" to spend an hour contemplating the words of Steve's review and writing over a dozen paragraphs explaining as best I can my disagreements with it? Discussion and debate have been an integral part of art consumption for as long as art has been a thing. Steve started this particular discussion by positioning his review as a direct response to "the naysayers"; am I, a naysayer, not allowed to respond back? Yes, I know the meaning of the word "opinion"; I also know the meaning of the word "dialectic". I strongly disagreed with Steve's review, but it was well written and I feel I learnt something from it. Maybe someone who strongly disagrees with me will learn something from my reviews? This sh*t isn't optional - it's the entire point of the scene, and it blows my mind that you're so happy to throw it all away in favor of the speculative, pretentious notion of DeMille being a mETaPhoR for something beyond the fourth wall.
You don't think that is dismissive?
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Post by bobbievanhusen on Oct 5, 2023 19:27:45 GMT
Simply because if you disagree with the majority you’re up against it. Never be afraid to stop speaking your mind though, some of the behaviour on here is appalling. People who wouldn’t dare speak or behave that way in person - keyboard warriors. Back on topic, I’ve been offered a comp ticket for this in November and may make it if I’m free. Be interesting to see if they’ve added luxuries like props or a set by that point. And what is it that i've said that is so appalling? You should go and see it. Then you'll have an informed opinion on it, not just from what others think.
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Post by chernjam on Oct 5, 2023 19:52:06 GMT
... I also really like the way that this stark, brutal staging has been applied to a lush, romantic (albeit dark and cynical) musical work. The two different styles actually play off against each other perfectly, which is why I say that ALW should write more 'adult' musicals. IMO his best work has always been where he has used his gift for melody to explore things that are actually pretty dark, and where the staging leans into that. Totally agree too about how phenomenal this sounds. I don't know what they've done, or how they've done it, but it's magnificent. Personally, I just think it's incredible that we're sitting here in 2023, discussing whether the metanarrative in an Andrew Lloyd Webber musical works or not. I repeat - and Andrew Lloyd Webber musical. Not Sondheim. Not a Jeanine Tesori musical, or a Dave Malloy one. How did this happen? More please!! That's when ALW succeeds the most. He's said that his inspiration for Dont Cry for Me Argentina was seeing Judy Garland trying to perform "Somewhere over the rainbow" when she was struggling with substance abuse issues and the crowd was practically booing her during her "anthem." Seeing something that was synonymous with this person now turned against her he found incredibly brutal in real life but at the same time very theatrical. that's what's exciting about hearing all this about Sunset. I've always loved the score and felt it was one of ALW's finest. But perhaps the original production was too reverential towards the movie in how it was staged. With this more dark/cynical approach, perhaps Sunset will finally achieve some of the artistic potential ALW first envisioned.
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Post by max on Oct 5, 2023 20:30:46 GMT
... I also really like the way that this stark, brutal staging has been applied to a lush, romantic (albeit dark and cynical) musical work. The two different styles actually play off against each other perfectly, which is why I say that ALW should write more 'adult' musicals. IMO his best work has always been where he has used his gift for melody to explore things that are actually pretty dark, and where the staging leans into that. Totally agree too about how phenomenal this sounds. I don't know what they've done, or how they've done it, but it's magnificent. Personally, I just think it's incredible that we're sitting here in 2023, discussing whether the metanarrative in an Andrew Lloyd Webber musical works or not. I repeat - and Andrew Lloyd Webber musical. Not Sondheim. Not a Jeanine Tesori musical, or a Dave Malloy one. How did this happen? More please!! That's when ALW succeeds the most. He's said that his inspiration for Dont Cry for Me Argentina was seeing Judy Garland trying to perform "Somewhere over the rainbow" when she was struggling with substance abuse issues and the crowd was practically booing her during her "anthem." Seeing something that was synonymous with this person now turned against her he found incredibly brutal in real life but at the same time very theatrical. that's what's exciting about hearing all this about Sunset. I've always loved the score and felt it was one of ALW's finest. But perhaps the original production was too reverential towards the movie in how it was staged. With this more dark/cynical approach, perhaps Sunset will finally achieve some of the artistic potential ALW first envisioned. I can't quite explain why, but when I heard some of the live audio clips of Nicole Scherzinger (particularly the very end) it sounded very different and renewed. Usually I think of the music as BEING Norma - 'I'm ready for my close-up' and the music jumps to her service as an expression of her. In this production (and I imagine it can only ramp up hugely in modern sports gear and a black nightie for Norma) it feels like the music is instead alien and something that's done to her - like the uppers and downers they had Judy Garland on; a sometimes soupy, sometimes creepy lushness that's part of the package you must inhabit and play by if you're to be in the movies. Additional to the inspiration for 'Don't Cry For Me, Argentina', in 'Evita' there's a sideways reference to Garland's 'If happy little bluebirds fly....who oh why can't I' in the lyric for Eva: 'Birds fly out of here so why oh why oh why the hell can't I'?. The musical phrase for 'why oh why' has a constrained flutter effect between two notes, constrained not quite taking off. Lloyd Webber uses a two-note flutter again for Norma in 'Sunset Boulevard': "I don't know why I'm frightened, I know my way around here'. If Norma is 'trapped inside that flickering light beam' then the music is part of that cage. Perhaps. I haven't seen it yet, lol.
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