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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2023 22:50:28 GMT
Gloria Swanson was 50/51 when she starred in Sunset Blvd. So I'd guess the ideal casting age range for the actress to play Norma would be 45 to 55. Some were a lot older such as Petula Clark who was over 65 and Glenn Close 2nd time round was nearer 70. Nicole is a bit older than Patti when she first played the role but they are different types of women and we see all those glamourous and beach photos of Nicole so maybe we all assume she is a younger than she is.
When I saw the UK Tour I must admit Faith Brown was pretty good in the role having always seen her on the TV as a comedy performer and doing impressions she had a good singing voice and carried the part off well.
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Post by sph on Jul 28, 2023 0:24:42 GMT
In 1950 yes, it would have been a total role-reversal to see a young leading man with a much older leading lady. It's still uncommon now, but the idea has been explored a lot more in various mediums to the point that it isn't as surprising.
I think some of the much older Normas were cast for their star name and the fact that they could generally pass for younger and there was a bit of theatrical suspension of disbelief.
I've seen some supposedly "Now that I'm 19..." Elder Prices and college-age Glindas and Elphabas pushing 40.
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Post by danb on Jul 28, 2023 7:00:02 GMT
Gloria Swanson was 50/51 when she starred in Sunset Blvd. So I'd guess the ideal casting age range for the actress to play Norma would be 45 to 55. Some were a lot older such as Petula Clark who was over 65 and Glenn Close 2nd time round was nearer 70. Nicole is a bit older than Patti when she first played the role but they are different types of women and we see all those glamourous and beach photos of Nicole so maybe we all assume she is a younger than she is. When I saw the UK Tour I must admit Faith Brown was pretty good in the role having always seen her on the TV as a comedy performer and doing impressions she had a good singing voice and carried the part off well. NS was 39 for a very, very long time and only recently started officially aging. |
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Post by theatrefan62 on Jul 28, 2023 9:19:07 GMT
Fair enough to appeal to modern sensibilities, but it is a period piece about the history of the cinema and needs to fit the timeline. If Norma is 70, her career would have come to an end when she was 50. And she would have been in her 30s when she got famous. Which would have been incredibly rare for the talkies. (Women over 30 were considered over the hill, IIRC; it was a very different story for men, like Charlie Chaplin etc.) The line ‘we were young when movies were born’ would have to be changed to ‘we were middle-aged when movies were born’. Which doesn’t quite have the same ring… I agree and it's a valid point. But my point about age is today, a 50 year old doesn't generally look like a 50 year old 30, 40, 50 years ago. If you watch TV shows from the 90s for example, 30 and 40 year olds often look older than their counterparts today. In the original movie Gloria Swansen did look amazing, but I think sunset can work just as believable with someone in their 60s or above if they are right for the role and when it's Glenn Close delivering that masterclass acting performance the gap between being forgotten and being a silent movie star is a little bit easier to suspend disbelief. She had the fragility, the decline, the crazed look on her eye, and the age gap was more noticeable to help add that context. We are so often told we should suspend disbelief in other ways, it's disappointing when upper age limits seems to be peoples cut offs. Especially when there aren't that many great roles for actresses over 50. |
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Post by newyorkcityboy on Jul 28, 2023 13:01:16 GMT
Fair enough to appeal to modern sensibilities, but it is a period piece about the history of the cinema and needs to fit the timeline. If Norma is 70, her career would have come to an end when she was 50. And she would have been in her 30s when she got famous. Which would have been incredibly rare for the talkies. (Women over 30 were considered over the hill, IIRC; it was a very different story for men, like Charlie Chaplin etc.) The line ‘we were young when movies were born’ would have to be changed to ‘we were middle-aged when movies were born’. Which doesn’t quite have the same ring… I agree and it's a valid point. But my point about age is today, a 50 year old doesn't generally look like a 50 year old 30, 40, 50 years ago. If you watch TV shows from the 90s for example, 30 and 40 year olds often look older than their counterparts today. In the original movie Gloria Swansen did look amazing, but I think sunset can work just as believable with someone in their 60s or above if they are right for the role and when it's Glenn Close delivering that masterclass acting performance the gap between being forgotten and being a silent movie star is a little bit easier to suspend disbelief. She had the fragility, the decline, the crazed look on her eye, and the age gap was more noticeable to help add that context. We are so often told we should suspend disbelief in other ways, it's disappointing when upper age limits seems to be peoples cut offs. Especially when there aren't that many great roles for actresses over 50. I’m not saying they can’t play the role but the role as written (in the lyrics) is fifty. You can’t change the characters’ age on a whim just to pander to current mores. With the current scandal over the ‘ickiness’ in Aspects, you’d think a lower age gap would be preferable; you’re suggesting a gap of fifty years, which is verging on Harold & Maude. (For the record there is thirty years between me and my partner, and that raises plenty enough eyebrows. Even amongst the gay community, which is usually more tolerant!) |
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Post by anthony40 on Jul 28, 2023 13:11:26 GMT
I agree and it's a valid point. But my point about age is today, a 50 year old doesn't generally look like a 50 year old 30, 40, 50 years ago. If you watch TV shows from the 90s for example, 30 and 40 year olds often look older than their counterparts today. In the original movie Gloria Swansen did look amazing, but I think sunset can work just as believable with someone in their 60s or above if they are right for the role and when it's Glenn Close delivering that masterclass acting performance the gap between being forgotten and being a silent movie star is a little bit easier to suspend disbelief. She had the fragility, the decline, the crazed look on her eye, and the age gap was more noticeable to help add that context. We are so often told we should suspend disbelief in other ways, it's disappointing when upper age limits seems to be peoples cut offs. Especially when there aren't that many great roles for actresses over 50. (For the record there is thirty years between me and my partner, and that raises plenty enough eyebrows. Even amongst the gay community, which is usually more tolerant!) I was speaking to someone I met a couple of weeks ago and (I think) he was 32 and his partner was 85. I make a conscious effort not to judge or make assumptions but to me that's a huge gap! Gay or straight. But on the other had, if you can make it work and you'r e both happy, my opinion counts for nothing! My cousin back in Australia (approx 50) goes out with a woman older than his mother. A lovely very generous lady, but visibly older. He's been with her for years! |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2023 15:40:47 GMT
People did look older years ago but they grew up in harder times, lived through wars etc. Norma was supposed to be a retired silent star so by 1950 would have been 50's to 60's. Chaplin was in his early 60's by then and Harrold Lloyd a little younger.
Interesting point about the age difference in same sex partnerships compared to hetrosexual ones. When people talk about it being less judgemental do they mean across both their gay and straight friends or more within one niche.
I don't know if Nicole did shave a few years off her age when she started but with social media it is very hard to hide your age now. A few venerable performers knocked a couple of years off their age until they were maybe nearing 90. Tess Daly was outed at her correct age by her husband on social media when she had claimed to be a couple of years younger.
A couple of the Spice Girls shaved a couple of years off when they first started but it was soon uncovered as they went so mega.
Joan Collins seemed to be in her 50's for most of 80's and 90's but now we all know Dame Joan is 90.
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Post by max on Jul 28, 2023 16:07:21 GMT
(For the record there is thirty years between me and my partner, and that raises plenty enough eyebrows. Even amongst the gay community, which is usually more tolerant!) I was speaking to someone I met a couple of weeks ago and (I think) he was 32 and his partner was 85. I make a conscious effort not to judge or make assumptions but to me that's a huge gap! Gay or straight. But on the other had, if you can make it work and you'r e both happy, my opinion counts for nothing! My cousin back in Australia (approx 50) goes out with a woman older than his mother. A lovely very generous lady, but visibly older. He's been with her for years! This gives hope to many. As someone said re. Madonna: "Don't worry if you haven't found your life partner. They just haven't been born yet". |
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Post by bimse on Jul 28, 2023 17:09:13 GMT
Gloria Swanson was 50/51 when she starred in Sunset Blvd. So I'd guess the ideal casting age range for the actress to play Norma would be 45 to 55. Some were a lot older such as Petula Clark who was over 65 and Glenn Close 2nd time round was nearer 70. Nicole is a bit older than Patti when she first played the role but they are different types of women and we see all those glamourous and beach photos of Nicole so maybe we all assume she is a younger than she is. When I saw the UK Tour I must admit Faith Brown was pretty good in the role having always seen her on the TV as a comedy performer and doing impressions she had a good singing voice and carried the part off well. Faith Brown was sensational as Norma. I saw the original with Patti LuPone who was great, but Faith was superb, pity she never did the Adelphi production . |
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Post by max on Jul 28, 2023 17:56:02 GMT
Gloria Swanson was 50/51 when she starred in Sunset Blvd. So I'd guess the ideal casting age range for the actress to play Norma would be 45 to 55. Some were a lot older such as Petula Clark who was over 65 and Glenn Close 2nd time round was nearer 70. Nicole is a bit older than Patti when she first played the role but they are different types of women and we see all those glamourous and beach photos of Nicole so maybe we all assume she is a younger than she is. When I saw the UK Tour I must admit Faith Brown was pretty good in the role having always seen her on the TV as a comedy performer and doing impressions she had a good singing voice and carried the part off well. Faith Brown was sensational as Norma. I saw the original with Patti LuPone who was great, but Faith was superb, pity she never did the Adelphi production . I saw this too, in Manchester; but Earl Carpenter had departed the cast, quite early in the run I think. |
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Post by saral on Jul 28, 2023 18:37:16 GMT
I was so disappointed in Faith Brown and that whole production, I know it was touring but after seeing it in London and New York i guess I'd been spoilt
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Post by toomasj on Jul 28, 2023 18:46:17 GMT
Earl Carpenter was asked about Faith Brown and that Sunset tour once in an interview with WhatsOnStage. He made it very clear it wasn’t a good experience for him and Ms. Brown wasn’t the easiest co-star to work with. He also said his dream role would be Javert, which of course he went on to play for many years in different productions. It was a good interview, but he seemed rather bitter about his experience in Sunset.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2023 19:22:41 GMT
I'd forgotten that was one of Earl's earlier roles, he's gone onto have a good career so hasn't done him too much harm. Faith I could imagine being very biting if she wanted to be as she was a comedy star and quick whitted. She often poked fun at her own appearance if anything but others may not have taken so kindly if she sent them up.
If she could be a bit divaish and had a very sharp comedy tongue I would have imagined she'd have been pretty intimidating.
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Post by meister on Aug 1, 2023 10:43:25 GMT
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Post by BVM on Aug 1, 2023 10:47:26 GMT
She’s serving #icon. I am totally ready for her closeup. Really think it’s gonna be epic.
(Though I assume this is not Norma hair 🤷🏻♂️. With JL you never know though!)
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Post by distantcousin on Aug 1, 2023 10:57:08 GMT
Fair enough to appeal to modern sensibilities, but it is a period piece about the history of the cinema and needs to fit the timeline. If Norma is 70, her career would have come to an end when she was 50. And she would have been in her 30s when she got famous. Which would have been incredibly rare for the talkies. (Women over 30 were considered over the hill, IIRC; it was a very different story for men, like Charlie Chaplin etc.) The line ‘we were young when movies were born’ would have to be changed to ‘we were middle-aged when movies were born’. Which doesn’t quite have the same ring… Exactly. The timelines/historical accuracy is completely thrown out. Although I do think an actor in her 50's (rather than 40's) makes more sense to a modern audience. |
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Post by distantcousin on Aug 1, 2023 10:59:35 GMT
In 1950 yes, it would have been a total role-reversal to see a young leading man with a much older leading lady. It's still uncommon now, but the idea has been explored a lot more in various mediums to the point that it isn't as surprising. I think some of the much older Normas were cast for their star name and the fact that they could generally pass for younger and there was a bit of theatrical suspension of disbelief. I've seen some supposedly "Now that I'm 19..." Elder Prices and college-age Glindas and Elphabas pushing 40. Yeah, theatre casting does have a habit of hiring people ludicrously too old for the roles they're playing.... |
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Post by toomasj on Aug 1, 2023 11:02:54 GMT
Whether the leading lady reads too young or Joe reads too young is all going to pale into insignificance given Jamie Lloyd is directing this. I’ll be a lot more taken out of the material and distracted by the inevitable handheld mics, black box set and nobody owning a pair of shoes.
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Post by BVM on Aug 1, 2023 11:07:39 GMT
Whether the leading lady reads too young or Joe reads too young is all going to pale into insignificance given Jamie Lloyd is directing this. I’ll be a lot more taken out of the material and distracted by the inevitable handheld mics, black box set and nobody owning a pair of shoes. Either gonna be iconically good or iconically bad/bonkers. But I do agree with you. Ages are probs gonna pale into insignificance relative to whatever plans Jamie Lloyd has for this! |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Aug 1, 2023 11:35:22 GMT
Whether the leading lady reads too young or Joe reads too young is all going to pale into insignificance given Jamie Lloyd is directing this. I’ll be a lot more taken out of the material and distracted by the inevitable handheld mics, black box set and nobody owning a pair of shoes. 😝😢 |
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Post by mattnyc on Aug 1, 2023 11:40:22 GMT
Still waiting to hear if the stage will be completely dark except for each actor holding a lighter under their face to represent the flickering passage of time or whatever he’ll say it represents.
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Post by alece10 on Aug 1, 2023 15:32:02 GMT
I think I'm booked for the first night. It Will either be my best or worst decision.
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Post by A.Ham on Aug 1, 2023 18:18:24 GMT
Noticed there’s more seats near the front appearing on the website now (direct with ATG) - but of course as it’s them they’re at crazy prices - for the handful of dates I looked at in Sept and early Oct they’ve hiked the centre front row of the dress and some premium centre stalls to £245!
Seems crazy given it’s generally not selling that well - you’d have thought the prices may start going the other way. Amazed I got centre row C For £87.50 when it went on sale and they’re now asking £175 for the ends of the row.
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Post by littlefan on Aug 1, 2023 18:36:08 GMT
As time goes on, I'm really starting to wonder whether or not I regret buying tickets for this. Sunset is one of my favourite musicals but everything about this production, the casting, the director, the venue choice, it's worrying me very much. I really don't have much hope. I probably should have brought tickets later in the run... I feel similarly... 🙈 |
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